Reading the Chunksters discussion

This thread is for discussing Book 2, chapters 1-4. Discussion scheduled to take place February 12-18th.

Well.

A murder. Aomame and Ayumi will not meet again.

The more I think about this, the more I am beginning to think of Murakami's (1Q84's) alternative world(s) not so much as a science fiction kind of parallel world, but as a world created in a story by an author. The world is real, seems real, but does not actually exist.

This started for me while reading about Tengo's creation of his own world with two moons, in his new novel. Murakami has been speaking of creating books all along, and these worlds that do not exist are more and more layered in the book we are reading.

Anyway. And Aomame is in love with Tengo and has been since she was ten.

And perhaps Fuka - Eri is the Leader's daughter. She at least is the right age.

Yep, Fuka-Eri does seem to be the Leader’s daughter. No wonder she ran away.

I agree, Dan. It seems the alternate world is Tengo’s story. I guess the reader was just introduced to it at the beginning of Aomame’s storyline when she exited the taxi? I don’t remember any point after that when she specifically mentioned there only being the single moon, but then why would she. I’m wondering, though, if Tengo’s story will ultimately become reality. I’m assuming the two must meet at some point in the book. If they don’t, well, I’m not sure what I’ll think.

But even if this alternate world is just a story, the Little People are present in both it and Tengo’s reality since Fuka-Eri spoke of them. It’s all still confusing yet intriguing. And we still have another 600 pages to go so a lot can happen.

Oh, I found the descriptions of Ushikawa’s physical appearance pretty comical. Especially when Tengo noted that the ears themselves were small, but Ushikawa’s earlobes were strangely big. Ushikawa’s physical oddities were an unending source of fascination. Oh! I believe earlobes are a bingo square. :D

Linda wrote: "But even if this alternate world is just a story, the Little People are present in both it and Tengo’s reality since Fuka-Eri spoke of them. It’s all still confusing yet intriguing. And we still ha..."

As I was reading the conversation between Ushikawa and Tengo, my thinking went toward Ushikawa is a Little Person, I only think this because of the origame way of the Little People unfolding themselves when they exited the mouth. Ushikawa, in my weird and distorted mind, is folded and refolded and refolded, which is why there is no symmetry. I am also using Fuka-Eri's warning to Tengo about the Little People to support this theory.

This book is making me crazy. During the scene between the Dowager and Aomame, I was looking for clues because of the three lilies and three tea cups. How can the Dowager take care of everything without clues leading to her after Aomame assassinates the Leader?

Tammy Dayton wrote: "my thinking went toward Ushikawa is a Little Person, I only think this because of the origame way of the Little People unfolding themselves when they exited the mouth. Ushikawa, in my weird and distorted mind, is folded and refolded and refolded, which is why there is no symmetry."

Oh, I love this theory! I actually had forgotten that the Little People had unfolded themselves. Very cool comparison to origami, Tammy.

Linda wrote: "Yep, Fuka-Eri does seem to be the Leader’s daughter. No wonder she ran away.

I agree, Dan. It seems the alternate world is Tengo’s story. I guess the reader was just introduced to it at the begin..."

I've caught up, as it took a while for the library to get a copy to me. Upon reflection, I like how the author pulled no punches at the start of the novel: of course we're in 2 worlds. But Aoname seems to , at a minimum, enter the '2 moon world' having already planned to kill Mr. Miyama - Book 1, Chapter 3. Therefore, she's in the 2-moon world when the book starts, right?

on occasion, I've had to remind myself that this book is almost ten years old, but is set in 1984. There are comments that wouldn't be made if the book were written today, like the one about how odd it is that the big bodyguard is gay. And I'm glad that the sex scenes are so clinical: sex scenes are tough to write, I think, and I often laugh when authors try to convey BIG DEEP passions. Good choice by author to keep thinks sort of clinical. oh, and it is true that most men's left testicle hangs lower than the right one. I've never come across an explanation for this, but I think it has something to do with men dressing ourselves with our right-hand, as about 90% of men are right-handed.

I'm with others that this does seem to be the 'real' world and then the other world is the world within Tengo's (and Fuka-Eri's) story/novel rather than a parallel universe. However, there does have to be some cross over so there may be anomalies within the real world (if I can call it such) that fit within the world(s) of the book. The mind boggles.

I am a bit behind now so I need to get reading to catch up!

The Dowager and Aomame keep saying they will send their targets to another place. To me that's a clear reference to another world. They {pretend?) don't kill them but send them elsewhere.

As to what is reality: Isn't my dream world real as long as I am in it? Is this true also for the non-sleep world I live in? I'm in no position yet to be guessing what is real and what isn't.

There may be—there are—many worlds. But as the taxi driver said: Remember, there is only one reality.

True, he did say that. In fact, I keep remembering that he said that. But does that mean only one world is real or that reality transcends the worlds?

I’m not even sure I can figure out why I like reading Murakami, or why he is so popular. This was just my second book of his I’ve read.
The world of 1Q84 is different that the world of Norwegian Wood, or Kafka on the Shore.

I don’t think he sees reality as transcendent to these other worlds, or that any world is better than another. I think what he is suggesting is that on the one hand there are worlds and on the other hand there is “reality.” They are different, but not separate. Whether this means one affects or changes another —and how this happens—is a good question.

These different worlds and different people’s perceptions at different times makes reality seem fuzzy. And all the stories people read and tell are part of the reality, somehow.

I've read Kafka on the Shore and it was okay. A lot of my opinion of Murakami will depend on whether this holds together. I really have no idea what is going on and am just making comments along the way about things that stick in my mind. I'm thinking out loud. I'm not sure how literally I should take what these characters say.

I do, though, think Tengo's idea of time is involved in this. That and what the taxi driver said are two things that stuck with me. One reality does not exclude multiple worlds, though. In fact, the story seems to suggest that reality can be changed by changing it in the other (second) world -- a kind of second chance. So only ever one reality, but one that can be changed?

Clear as mud. I sound confused because I am. So just take my musings as confused mutterings. :)

Kafka on the Shore played with the hint of shifting times and multiple worlds too. Then again it rained mackerel too.

No, I agree. But I continue to think the "other world" is is something like the imagination.

Dan wrote: "There may be—there are—many worlds. But as the taxi driver said: Remember, there is only one reality."

Dan, yep, on page 5 or 6. BUT, I think he's saying each person has their own vision, even if they enter another world. I've finished the book, but looking forward to more talk.

Chapter 4

An important chapter, no? Of course it almost reads like filler. We start with Tengo remembering Aomame while cooking, and then, when almost at the end of the chapter, the subject switches to time and the future and the possibility of changing it.

Tengo discusses with himself how, by rewriting the past, one might be able to change the future. Time had the power to cancel all changes wrought by human artifice, overwriting all new revisions with further revisions . . .

Then he remembers St. Matthew's Passion, part of which Fuka-Eri had recited. Jesus will die, and neither the woman nor his disciples will be able to change that.

None of them, of course, was able to change the future.

So there we have it, finality. I have no idea what to make of that last part.

Jesus has been dead for a long time. But perhaps Judas or Pilate COULD have changed that.
To me, this is more like saying you can't change the past. None of them WAS able to change the future.

Murakami has regularly let characters "switch," or change in just a moment.