Robert E. Howard Readers discussion

I'm really excited to have gotten Swords of the North, which collects much of REH's Viking, Celtic, and Reincarnation stories. I just finished reading Rusty Burke's introduction, which was fascinating and informative. I didn't really realize just how interwoven REH's fiction really, truly was. Anyway, this book is organized differently than most of the REH Foundation books, in that it is organized by when the story happens, not by when REH wrote it. I'm really looking forward to diving into this volume.

The story order certainly is a change. Glad the introduction was good. I never used to read them when I was younger, now I usually do.

Yes, it is nice that modern REH books have introductions written by scholars of his writing, and not just a simple mini-biography and a few nice words about the stories within. These new introductions (and epilogues) are brilliant, filled with information and insight.

Anyway, Rusty Burke puts forth that this collection highlights how REH's version of history is rooted in "The Northern Thing," which is a darkness-defying worldview, mythology, and history of the ancient Germanic and Norse peoples. He also shows that Tolkien was deeply influenced by the same worldview. Basically, even though the protagonists usually win, there is always the sense that it is a short run victory, and in the long run the darkness will win, bringing loss and defeat for the cultures involved. That theme has been noted well in the Bran Mak Morn stories. It is a theme I even noted way back when I wrote Conan: The Road of Kings (pp 184-185) (also in Return to the Road of Kings (p. 265)).

I am so excited to see how this book was put together and am going to look to see how these stories handle this theme (and others).

Just read "The Frost King's Daughter," REH's rewrite of his unsold Conan tale, "The Frost Giant's Daughter." Odd that he renamed the character (from Conan to Amra of Akbitana), but kept the story set the Hyborian age. Leaves one wondering why an Akbitanan is swearing by Crom. Still an evocative story. It keeps within the theme of temporary victory, but that something darker awaits discovery beyond that victory, a darkness that will swallow any mortal victory and leave behind nothing but madness and loss. As with the original, I like the supernatural element. One could almost believe it was a dream-episode, but for the left-over gossamer wisp left in his grasp.

I just watched "A Miracle on 34th Street," the original, and thought the final scene, where the lawyer found Kris's cane in the corner of the house, kind of felt like the gossamer wisp of this tale - a little evidence that the supernatural had been touched.

I reread "The Valley of the Worm" today. It is a James Allison reincarnation story. In this, he is Niord, and is the prototype of the Man vs. Dragon story, although the dragon in this one is a chthonic blasphemy and his demonic companion with pipes. Unlike Conan or many other REH characters, Niord dies in bringing down his foe. It mentions the march of man, its evolution, and very much fits into the overall theme of how time marches on and changes things no matter how man strives to hold it back.

The story mentions the Stygians and how they turn into Egyptians. The story also mentions the Nordheimr, the Aesir and the Picts. It's clearly post-Hyborian age, though.

This story can also be found in The Best of Robert E. Howard: Crimson Shadows, Wolfshead, and others.

I reread "Garden of Fear" today. Another of the post-Hyborian age tales of the Aesir drift. I wish I had realized these Aesir were the same as those in the Conan stories - I would have used these tales more in writing Return to the Road of Kings. Anyway, it's a weird little tale that fits well into the overall theme of the book. You have a dying race, and its lore is lost because James Allison as Hunwulf couldn't read. I also get a strong sense of the degeneration of man since the Hyborian age.

This story can also be found in Eons of the Night, Pigeons from Hell and Other Weird and Fantastic Adventures, and other collections.

Reread "Marchers of Valhalla." I'd forgotten how much I like this tale. Again, a post-Hyborian age, and a reincarnation of James Allison. Brilliant and brutal. REH uses the name Grom for a Pict, and a couple stories earlier he used the name Gorm. It does fit into the theme of the book, with a doom overhanging all that is done, treachery, and death - yet the REH protagonist doesn't care about that so long as he can deal death before the final doom comes.

This story can be found in Eons of the Night, Marchers Of Valhalla, and other collections.

I'm enjoying the commentaries, Vincent. Thanks. I haven't said so on each post, though.

I'm glad. If you have anything to add, please jump in. Even if people don't have this book yet, many of these stories are in other collections (I think there are something like seven stories which are fairly unique to this collection; at least, there are seven stories that I don't have in another collection).

I think I've recognized each story so far, but there are often different versions that make them more or less enjoyable. I'm not a purist, though. Can you post the contents & which stories are unique to this collection?

So, I put into Bold the stories that are unique (at least to my collection, which is about 149 REH books; what is unique to your collection may well vary depending on the depth and breadth of your collection). I put into italics the fragments that I have but were completed by others, making it a unique appearance of the unaltered fragment.

Niflheim (verse)
The Frost King’s Daughter (Amra version)
The Valley of the Worm
The Garden of Fear
Marchers of Valhalla
“Feach Air Muir Lionadhi Gealach Buidhe Mar Or” (verse)
The People of the Dark
An Echo From the Iron Harp (verse)
Kings of the Night
Swords of the Northern Sea
The Night of the Wolf
Delenda Est
The Ballad of King Geraint (verse)
The Song of the Last Briton (verse)
Memories of Alfred (verse)
Dreaming on Downs (verse)
The Song of Horsa’s Galley (verse)
Song before Clontarf (verse)
The Grey God Passes
The Dark Man
The Gods of Bal-Sagoth
The Outgoing of Sigurd the Jerusalem-Farer (verse)
Marching Song of Connacht (verse)
The Skull in the Clouds (verse)
The Ghost in the Doorway
Black Michael’s Story (verse)
Dermod’s Bane
The Cairn on the Headland
Black Harps in the Hills (verse)

Appendix 1 – James Allison
Brachan the Kelt
Genseric’s Son
The Guardian of the Idol
Akram the Mysterious

Appendix 2 – Cormac Mac Art
Tigers of the Sea
The Temple of Abomination, early draft
The Temple of Abomination, later draft
Untitled, “Between berserk battle rages”

Appendix 3 – Turlogh Dubh O’Brien
Untitled, “The Dane came in with a rush”
The Shadow of the Hun

Miscellanea
The King’s Service
Where Are Your Knights, Donn Othna? (verse)
No More the Serpent Prow (verse)
Untitled, “ ‘I,’ said Cuchulain”
The Harp of Alfred (verse)
Viking’s Vision (verse)
Thor’s Son (verse)
To Harry the Oliad Men (verse)
The Isle of Hy-Brasil (verse)
Heritage (1) (verse)
Singing Hemp (verse)
The Return of the Sea-Farer (verse)
Heritage (2) (verse)
Viking’s Trail (verse)
To a Friend (verse)
Twilight on Stonehenge (verse)
The House of Gael (verse)

Wow! That was fast. Thanks! Except for "The Frost King's Daughter which I only have in the Conan version, I don't have any of those. That's quite a good collection!

Yes, I think it is. Even for the stories that I have, it's nice to have them all collected in a single hardcover volume, instead of spread out among countless paperbacks. In addition, the order they are placed in really show-cases something important in REH's worldview that I missed before.

Re-read "The People of the Dark," the reincarnation story that introduces us to Conan of the reavers. I always liked how this one starts: "I came to Dagon's Cave to kill Richard Brent."

Instead of James Allison, the cripple, telling us of his previous incarnations, we have the story of John O'Brien and his prior incarnation, Conan of the reavers. This one is less about the sense of death of the protagonist's culture as it is the death of the Children of the Dark's race, although certainly the doom caused by Conan is felt by John... and the debt repaid. This story, although the protagonist technically loses, is more hopeful than the others so far in this volume, as John did feel he repaid the debt owed the previous incarnation of Richard Brent and Eleanor Bland.

It is interesting to note that the last name of the beautiful woman in the story is "Bland." I don't know if this was a comment that women today seemed less interesting than the women of yesteryear, yet clearly John loved her - although he gives her up at the end after remembering Tamera, Eleanor's prior incarnation. I like to think that a name is important, and that REH didn't blindly assign that name, so I think it is interesting and wonder what REH might have meant by his choice. Why name her Bland?

This story can be found in The Horror Stories of Robert E. Howard, Nameless Cults: The Complete Cthulhu Mythos Fiction of Robert E. Howard, Pigeons from Hell and Other Weird and Fantastic Adventures, and many other collections.

Interesting question on the last name. I googled it. According to one source, "The name Bland is part of the ancient legacy of the Anglo-Saxon tribes of Britain. It is a product of when the family lived at Bland in the West Riding of Yorkshire."

Harriet Bland (1915–1991), American athlete would have been my pick, except she won her Olympic medal about the time REH committed suicide. He wasn't into sprinting, was he? I guess he could have admired her earlier accomplishments in the newspaper.

Some others:
- Alexander Bland (1866–1947), Welsh international rugby player.
- Elizabeth Bland (fl. 1681–1712), Englishwoman celebrated for her knowledge of Hebrew.
- Harry Bland (1898–after 1934), English professional footballer.
- Oscar E. Bland (1877–1951), U.S. Representative from Indiana.
- S. Otis Bland (1872–1950), U.S. Representative from Virginia.
- Peregrine Bland (c.1596–1647), early Virginia settler and politician.

So there are quite a few Blands that might have caught his attention.

Nice detective work, Jim! Thanks. Alexander Bland, being a Welshman, might have also attracted his attention.

Reread "Kings of the Night" last night, REH's famous crossover event that had Bran Mak Morn meeting King Kull through the dark abysses of time. Still one of my favorite REH stories, and much in keeping with the overriding theme of this collection, the Northern Thing. Even though Cormac, Bran, and everyone else knew Rome would eventually win, they continued to strive to make sure that Rome didn't win THIS day.

This story is easily found in just about any collection of Bran Mak Morn or King Kull stories, such as Bran Mak Morn: The Last King, Worms Of The Earth, Bran Mak Morn (The Robert E. Howard Library, Vol. IV), Kull: Exile of Atlantis, and so on.

It's been a long time since I've read stories of Cormac Mac Art. This one was "Swords of the Northern Sea," an enjoyable tale of love and betrayal.

I've long wondered why this tale (and a few others in this volume, such as "The Shadow of the Hun" and "The King's Service") were not included in Sword Woman and Other Historical Adventures, as they are historical fiction. I wonder if this volume had been planned that far back.

Anyway, other than including Vikings and Danes, this story didn't really promote the primary theme of this collection, beyond that of finding "a potent but terrible solution in naked will and courage" (Rusty Burke, "Night Falls on Asgard"). There is little hint here of Time's Abyss, or of the fleetingness of today's victory in the face of tomorrow's inevitable loss.

That's not to say it's a bad story - far from it! - just that it seemed to belong more in the volume of historical fiction than here. Perhaps the other Cormac mac Art stories will clear this up (and it is always good to have all the stories of a particular character collected within one volume).

This story can also be found in Cormac Mac Art and Tigers Of The Sea.

Good posts. Just wanted to encourage you as there are not many comments.

Thanks. Funny, because I was just feeling a little discouraged. Good timing.

I think REH is so much more than Conan - and he should be read. We are finally living in a time where most of his stories can be found fairly easily - with Amazon and eBay, especially - as opposed to lurking in various used bookstores seeking a lost REH treasure. This is a great time for REH fandom - we should be reading his stories because they are being made available! And the REH Foundation is doing an incredible job of collecting these stories in beautiful hardcover volumes...

Hopefully we can get some discussions going to generate interest in reading REH.

Don't be too discouraged. I don't know any of the details, except that Paradox has found someone to take up the rights to produce the Conan rpg! Unknown which game company, but was told the news would be released soon.

Eric in WA

I guess it depends on who is writing the RPG. Not everyone really understands Conan or the Hyborian age... see the last Conan movie for evidence of that statement.

Anyway, any thoughts on Cormac Mac Art? Tomorrow, I will be reading "The Night of the Wolf."

I haven't read any Cormac lately. I have read a bunch of Crusader stories as well as the Bran Mak Morn. I can't get over the story 'Worms of the Earth'. I truly find the depths of mans desire for revenge nearly exhaustible. Howard clearly made me think that Bran would do anything to avenge the shame put on him by the Romans. Hell, he slept with a half-human witch, braved the depths of a demon haunted cavern complex and then swam in a lake, which he knew had a monster living in it! All for revenge. God I need some Tylenol right now! LOL

That is a wonderful, wonderful story. Not only on the depths of revenge, but also on the main theme of this particular volume, the overwhelming sense that man's struggles are only a temporary stop-gap against the tide of entropy. "Worms of the Earth" certainly could have been in this volume. I suspect it wasn't because it is one of the more often reprinted stories.

I would love to see a graphic novel, professionally done with artist quality pictures and artwork, telling the story Worms of the Earth. I believe I have seen a black and white version, maybe in a SSOC? Not sure.

Yes, it was done in SSOC 16 (Dec 1976) and 17 (Feb. 1977). A trade paperback version in full color was published by Cross Plains Comics/Wandering Star in October 2000.

Reread "The Night of the Wolf," another Cormac Mac Art story. Again, this seems it would have fit well in Sword Woman and Other Historical Adventures, but it does fit the "potent but terrible solution in naked will and courage" theme mentioned by Rusty Burke.

Speaking of "Worms of the Earth," Cormac Mac Art uses the psuedonym "Partha Mac Othna," the same named used by Bran Mac Morn.

Anyway, it was a pretty good historical story, filled with gore and violence, Picts and Vikings. I haven't read these last Cormac Mac Art stories since reading Cormac Mac Art way back in 1996. At one point, Cormac is identified as Cormac Mac Art an Cliuin... which is similar to the real life historical Cormac mac Airt ua Cuinn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cormac_m...). I wonder if REH intended this character to be that historical person, or if he just lifted the name.

I think, in my opinion, because of how well read he was in historical facts, that he used a little writers license and changed the name to 'protect the innocent'. I think I see that in a lot of his writings. Would you agree or disagree?

Yes, he did, but he also simply used historical characters as characters, such as in "Spears of Clontarf," "The Lion of Tiberius," "Gates of Empire," and so on, so that leaves the matter a little muddy still - he did both. I could see it both ways with this character.

So would you say that Howard was similar to modern writers who publish books about historical figures who are in alternate universes? Example what if Germany won WWII? Do you think Howard, if he lived, would have leaned toward that type of writing, using historical figures but in stories of his own making?

I don't think he would have leaned toward that type of writing if he had lived - I think he was already doing it.

That is what this volume of stories is saying, that these characters exist in a shared universe with REH's background history (The Atlantean age, the Hyborian age, the history of Picts) instead of established history. As stated in the introduction, "...Howard had created a secondary world as deep and complex as Tolkien's ....part of a larger fabric, an eons-spanning vision of a world across which played vast movements of peoples, and which served as the foundation for virtually the entirety of Howard's corpus" (Rusty Burke, 'Night Falls on Asgard').

However, many of his historicals don't change history (at least not by much), they merely narrate it. For example, in "The Lion of Tiberius," Zenghi was killed by an Englishman named John Norwald out for vengeance, while the historical Zenghi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imad_ad-...) was killed by a Frankish slave named Yaranqash. In REH's story, Yaranqash fled the tent before Zenghi died (and was seen by the guards doing so), and Norwald wasn't caught or seen - thus history records Yaranqash as the slayer. A slight difference with typical Howard styling.

Oh how I love his little twists. They are so realistic, that sometimes I feel I am reading what really happened in history and those stories they teach us in school are made up!

Reread "Delenda Est," a story set in 455 AD during Genseric the Vandal King's journey to Rome. Short, and to the point, the story shows Genseric's shift in view from treaty with Rome to a decision to sack it, via the intervention of a ghost.

Another historical fiction, REH takes the historical King of the Vandals and shows why he chose to sack Rome in 455 AD. It's one of those little twists on history that REH was so fond of, and mentioned by Eric in the previous post.

This story, also included in The Horror Stories of Robert E. Howard, as well as in other volumes, is a perfect fit for this volume, even more than it does the horror stories volume. History records that the Vandals succeeded because of Genseric, and fell into decline with his death - exactly matching the theme of the Northern Thing, that only the will of Genseric is keeping the Vandal 'empire' from collapsing, and that when that will is removed, so too goes the 'empire.' The inclusion of the ghost (I won't reveal his identity here because of spoilers) was a master stroke. Similar to what he did with "Kings of the Night," where he had two persons separated in time meet (Kull and Bran Mak Morn), he uses the ghost to have two powerful historical persons meet despite the separation by the gulfs of time. It allows the story to meet the other themes of the book, that of the sweeping power of time, in an interesting way. The ghost also makes it more than just historical fiction - but it doesn't quite elevate it to the level of "horror" story.

The drifts of nations are mentioned in discussing the travels and movements of the Vandals. And, of course, we have the theme of the power of one's naked will and courage.

"Delenda Est" clearly belongs here in this volume. It's an excellent example of the themes Rusty Burke discusses in his introduction.

Delenda Est is a favorite of mine . . .

The story's brevity makes it even more of an impressive story - it packs quite a punch in just a few pages. It's economic, yet hits all the major themes REH loved. Despite that brevity, it's a powerful tale. I like it a lot, too.

Thanks for the insight Vince. I think I will pull that book out and re-read that story tonight.

Best,

Eric

Read Delenda Est last night. I definitely see what you mean. I read some more in 'The Horror Stories' and really like the story 'The Shadow of the Beast'? Not remembering if that was the actual title. The one with the ghost of the gorilla that lives in the abandoned home? Awesome story. Had me peeing my pants even though I have read it several times. If you have an imagination, Howard will thrill you.

Yes, "Shadow of the Beast" was a pretty effective horror story, and definitely belongs in the Horror Stories volume. "Delenda Est" is a much more effective vehicle for the themes contained in "Swords of the North."

I haven't read Swords of the North yet, but I agree, it really doesn't seem like it belongs in that volume.

Read "The Ballad of King Geraint," which has to be the bloodiest poem I've ever read. It introduces a dozen protagonists and a dozen antagonists and pits them against each other in a massive battle. Not really historic, but legendary - in that REH "telescoped" history to create a sense of legend, this poem has been analyzed many times (see The Ballad of King Geraint, The Epic-Heroic Tradition, Some Thoughts on a "Missing Shelf" of the REH Bookshelf, and Other Conjectures by Frank Coffman, for one).

Geraint could be Geraint of Dumnonia, or the legendary Geraint or some other historical amalgamation, but it is an epic tale that really fits into this volume, because it not only describes the iron will of man to stem the tide of racial movement, but it also is filled with the atmosphere of doom for the protagonists in the long run.

I don't often review REH's poetry because I have a difficult time reading poetry and getting anywhere with it, but this one was quite effective and readable.

"The Ballad of King Geraint" can also be found Robert E. Howard: Selected Poems and, of course, The Collected Poetry of Robert E. Howard. Portions of the poem were also shared in one of REH's letters (Jan. 4, 1930, found in The Collected Letters of Robert E. Howard Volume Two: 1930-1932).

Well, I appreciate the recommendation. I really like his poetry, I just can't analyze it either because sometimes it is so beyond me. However I know I like it!

I think I usually just have a hard time being drawn into a poem. Stories draw me in and take hold of my imagination. Most poems, perhaps due to brevity, lack of a narrative structure, whatever, fail to really suck me into their "reality" and out of mine. This poem was something like 20 pages long, and it read more like a story. I've just never had much of an appreciation for poetry - it's like reading song lyrics without the music.

I sometimes find it easier to listen to poetry than to read it. I wonder if there are any audio collections of REH's poems.

I have several CD's with his stories, but I don't think anyone has spent the time to do his poetry? I could be wrong?

I think I like it a little more than you, because I tried my hand at poetry when I was younger, several centuries ago!!!!!!!

LOL

You're probably right about that. The only poems I ever attempted were for school assignments... and they were a misery to do.

Believe it or not, I wrote my best stuff when in the grip of some really bad, emotional drama. You know like when you break up with a girlfriend, or someone is dating a girl you want, etc. It wasn't all about love, but somehow the intense emotions enabled me to write poetry better.

Re-read "The Grey God Passes" today, one of my favorite Robert E. Howard stories. This tale, set in 1014, details the historic Battle of Clontarf but with a supernatural twist by adding Odin as a character (a straight historical fiction of this battle was written by Robert E. Howard as "Spears of Clontarf"; indeed, this tale is a rewrite of that, adding supernatural elements).

Although the story suffers from a lot of names with little character to them (it would be neat to have historical tales of each of the named characters that lead up to this battle), this is but a minor issue. Largely the story succeeds. It especially fits the theme of this book (particularly with the supernatural element) of both the elemental will of man to face certain doom on the parts of most of the participants, but also on the doom of a civilization, a way of life, and an old religion. The reign of terror by the Vikings was ended, Odin faded away in the face of Christianity, and many men died.

I have liked this story since I first encountered it in "Conan the Barbarian #3: Twilight of the Grim Grey God." That it was based on an REH story was stated in that old comic, and I went seeking it, finding it finally in Marchers of Valhalla as the back up feature to the main title story, and encountering it again in 1996 (as "Twilight of the Grey Gods") in Baen's Eons of the Night.

This story also has Turlogh Dubh O'Brien as a character.

I love the descriptions of Odin in this story. Anyway, the story is well-placed in this volume, and hits the overall themes beautifully, and in multiple ways.

This story can also be found in The Best of Robert E. Howard: Crimson Shadows, as well as the books I mentioned above. Also, the straight historical version can be found in Sword Woman and Other Historical Adventures.

Re-read "The Dark Man," another of my all-time favorite stories. Again featuring Turlogh Dubh O'Brien, this one is set in 1017, three years after "The Grey God Passes." It also features Bran Mak Morn after his apotheosis. The story is atmospheric, violent, and, to be honest, it has inspired more than one RPG campaign for me in my youth.

The story completely fits into the theme of this volume. It gives a sense of time-lost wonder, the oppressive waves of mankind washing over each other in bloody acts of conquest and resistance. It features the iron will to act as needed to succeed - or wreak a terrible vengeance when one fails. It also highlights how REH's stories all take place in one "world," as it mentions not only Bran Mak Morn, but King Kull and Atlantis. Since Turlogh Dubh was in the prior story, that links Clontarf, an actual historical event, into this world. (Since REH conceived his stories as all linked, this gives some credence to my idea that Thulsa Doom and Skull-face are the same person/monster).

"The Dark Man" also features the first appearance of Athelstane, who also appears in the next Turlogh Dubh O'Brien story, "The Gods of Bal-Sagoth."

This wonderful, magical story can be found in Bran Mak Morn: The Last King, The Best of Robert E. Howard: Crimson Shadows, Worms Of The Earth, The Weird Writings of Robert E. Howard: Volume 1, The Weird Writings of Robert E. Howard: Volume 2, Bran Mak Morn (The Robert E. Howard Library, Vol. IV), and probably a dozen other volumes. It's a pretty easy to find story - largely because it is fantastic, well-written, atmospheric, and memorable.

I'm reading the 'Cairn on the Headland' right now. It's a great story that has so many facets that I don't even know where to begin. Ancient evil, modern beliefs mixed with old. Evil vs. Good. Greed, Hope, history. Wow, so dang good.

Yes, that is another of my favorites, especially with its description of Odin. It also has links to Clontarf. I'm looking forward to getting to that one in this collection. REH was a master at filling even a short story with an incredible number of facets. Certainly some of his short stories show more depth than some people's novels!