Book Nook Cafe discussion

What's this? BNC's Group Read

Book Native Son

Author Richard Wright

When Discussion begins on January 1, 2015. Though you can comment before that date. You do not have to have the book read by January 1. Just start reading it around that time. We will read it together all month long.

>Where The discussion will take place in this thread.

Spoiler Etiquette:
The book is divided into 3 Parts. Please put the Part # at the top of your post.
Also write SPOLILER at the top of your post if you are discussing a major plot surprise.

Synopsis
Native Son (1940) is a novel by American author Richard Wright. The novel tells the story of 20-year-old Bigger Thomas, a black American youth living in utter poverty in a poor area on Chicago's South Side in the 1930s.

Book Details
430 pages

This is an older book so it is available used. It's also on Kindle & Nook.

Discussion Questions

**** Discussion questions contain spoilers !

.
1- In what ways does Wright portray Bigger’s day-to-day existence as a prison, even before his arrest and trial?

2- Describe the real estate practices that were applied to black families in Chicago’s South Side in the 1930s. With these practices in mind, why is Mr. Dalton—an avowed philanthropist toward blacks—a hypocrite?

3-Describe Jan and Mary’s attitude toward race relations. In what ways does their more subtle racism resemble the more overt prejudice of other whites?

4- How does Bigger’s desperate flight from the police symbolize his existence as a whole?

5- As Wright portrays it, how does the psychology of racial prejudice contribute to Bigger’s transformation into a murderer and a criminal?

6- Is Bigger’s trial a fair one? In Wright’s portrayal, how does racism affect the American judicial process? What role does the media play in determining popular conceptions of justice?

* Q are from SparkNotes

Part 1

I just finished part 1. This is a re-read for me. I'm enjoying it as much the second time around as the first.

Part 1 is sure a page turner! I hope you all enjoying this read.

Part 1

I decided to join this group read and I'm glad I did. I thought this would be a slw read and planned to read about 40 pages a day. To my surprise, it's a quick read, probably due to a lot of it being dialogue. I think Wright did an amazing job of portraying the anger and hopelessness of Bigger.m I certainly did not see the event at the end of Part 1 coming!

Hi Alias! (My book is 484 pp.) I have to say that this is an excellent book. It was so good that I could not put it down. I was also shocked that this book was published on March 1, 1940.

Native Son made American author, Richard Nathaniel Wright, a very famous young man, he was only thirty-two years. It was his first novel, this was very a big step in his literary career.

Regarding his early years . . . Wright was born on September 4, 1908, at Rucker's Plantation, between Roxie and the larger town, Natchez, Mississippi. His autobiography, Black Boy, covers the interval in his life from 1912 to 1936. Wright's father left the family when he was just six years old, and he did not see him for another 25 years. After his single parent (mother) became incapacitated (stroke), he was separated from his younger brother and lived briefly with his uncle.

Wright excelled in grade school and junior high school, and was made class valedictorian of Smith Robertson junior high school. He was assigned to write a paper to be delivered at a public auditorium, at graduation. Later, he was called to the principal's office, and the principal gave him a prepared speech to present in place of his assignment. Wright challenged the principal, and said "...the people are coming to hear the students, and I won't make a speech that you've written". The principal threatened him by suggesting Richard might not graduate if he persisted, despite having passed all the examinations, and then tried to entice Wright with an opportunity to become a teacher. Determined not to be called an Uncle Tom, Wright refused to deliver the principal's carefully prepared valedictory address that would not offend the white school officials. The principal put pressure on one of Wright's uncles to speak to the boy and get him to change his minds. But when his uncle tried to persuade Wright, he was adamant about delivering his speech, and refused to let his uncle edit it. Despite further pressure from his classmates, Wright delivered his speech as he had planned.

In September, Wright registered for mathematics, English, and history courses at the new Lanier High School in Jackson, but had to stop attending classes after a few weeks of irregular attendance because he needed to earn money for family expenses. The next year, an independent Wright called his mother to come live with him because he now could support her. Finally in November 1925, Wright moved on his own to Memphis, TN and took his mother and brother to live with him. Finally the family was reunited! Shortly after, Wright resolved to leave the Jim Crow life and go to Chicago.

His childhood in Mississippi, as well as in Memphis, TN, shaped his lasting impressions of American racism. At the age of 15, while in eighth grade, Wright published his first story, "The Voodoo of Hell's Half-Acre", in the local Black newspaper Southern Register, but no copies survive. He gave a brief description of the story about a villain who sought a widow's home in Chapter 7 of Black Boy. "

In 1927, Wright moved to Chicago, getting a position as a postal clerk. He read other writers and studied their styles during his time off. When his job at the post office was eliminated, he was forced to go on relief in 1931. In 1932, he began attending meetings of the John Reed Club. As the club was dominated by the Communist Party, Wright established a relationship with a number of party members. Especially interested in the literary contacts made at the meetings, Wright formally joined the Communist Party in late 1933 and as a revolutionary poet who wrote numerous proletarian poems - "I Have Seen Black Hands", "We of the Streets", "Red Leaves of Red Books." The John Reed Club led to the dissolution of the club's leadership; Wright was told he had the support of the club's party members if he was willing to join the party.

By 1935, Wright had completed his first novel, Cesspool, published as Lawd Today (1963), and in January 1936 his story "Big Boy Leaves Home" was accepted for publication in New Caravan. In February, he began working with the National Negro Congress, and in April he chaired the South Side Writers Group, whose membership included Arna Bontemps and Margaret Walker. Wright submitted some of his critical essays and poetry to the group for criticism and read aloud some of his short stories. While he was at first pleased by positive relations with white Communists in Chicago, he was later humiliated in New York City by some who rescinded an offer to find housing for Wright because of his race. Some black Communists denounced Wright as a bourgeois intellectual. However, he was largely autodidactic, having been forced to end his public education after the completion of grammar school. Wright's insistence that young communist writers be given space to cultivate their talents and his working relationship with a black nationalist communist led to a public falling out with the party and the leading African-American communist Buddy Nealson. Wright was threatened at knifepoint by fellow-traveler co workers.

I hope to start this weekend!

1 -- In what ways does Wright portray Bigger’s day-to-day existence as a prison, even before his arrest and trial?

He is stuck in his boring, day-to-day life. Bigger and Gus watched an airplane flying in the sky, wishing that they could be in the airplane. But instead of working hard, and making money to purchase the things they want, Bigger and Gus chose to complain about it, and then steal it or other ways to hurt and damage others. Their response is that “the whites will not let the blacks do anything.” During this period, African Americans were not allowed to vote, housing was despicable. Yet white Americans were able to do whatever they chose, since they had money, servants, and family. But also many African American homes lack a male father figure, like in Bigger's home. It is critically important in the life of a young man, he must have a positive male figure to guide him. Instead Bigger and his buddies chose to rob a deli, owned by a white man. But Bigger knows that he must apply for the job that his mom found. His mother takes on the father role, to motivate him to take this opportunity. It is a good job for both Bigger, and his family. He has been offered a position as a driver and also cleaning out the furnace.

Susan wrote: "Part 1

I decided to join this group read and I'm glad I did. I thought this would be a slw read and planned to read about 40 pages a day. To my surprise, it's a quick read, probably due to a lo..."
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It's a fast read and a bit of a page turner, too.

I'm glad you are reading it, Susan. :)

Carol wrote: "Hi Alias! (My book is 484 pp.) I have to say that this is an excellent book. It was so good that I could not put it down. I was also shocked that this book was published on March 1, 1940.."
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I took note of the year also. This really must have caused a stir at the time. It was a Book-of-the-month selection. They made Wright cut parts out. (movie theater)

My edition has an intro by Arnold Rampersad from Princeton Univ. If anyone doesn't have this I can share some of the tidbits from his intro.

Julie wrote: "I hope to start this weekend!"

Awesome !

****** comments contain spoilers


Carol wrote:. But instead of working hard, and making money to purchase the things they want, Bigger and Gus chose to complain about it, and then steal it or other ways to hurt and damage others. Their response is that “the whites will not let the blacks do anything.” ..."

-----

The intro by Arnold Rampersad made an interesting point. That racism will begat violence. "All the elements to create Bigger's mentality were historically in place in America..." "The conditions reflected the failures of modern civilization-the death of genuine spiritual values and traditions, the harness of economic greed and exploitation, the avarice for glittering material goods that, in a culture of consumerism, ultimately possessed the possessor..."

"Wright makes it clear that Bigger's harsh upbringing has left his sexuality contaminated with feelings of aggression and violence toward women..."

Note the titles of the parts. "Fear, Flight, and Fate- is seen Wright's instinctive grasp of the elemental starkness of Bigger's life."

I will likely join you all later, though the discussion may be done by then! I'm working through War and Peace and it will take me a bit. I'm happy to hear this is a page-turner.

Don't forget to put Part # and Spoiler Alert at the top of any post that discusses major plot elements.

Thanks !

I hope to pick this up at the library today. If not might have to wait until next week. It's a reread for me and I wasn't planning on it, but I want to participate more.

Bobbie57 wrote: "I hope to pick this up at the library today. If not might have to wait until next week. It's a reread for me and I wasn't planning on it, but I want to participate more."

Thanks, Barbara, for re-reading it. I look forward to you comments.

I am in Part 2 NOT a spoiler

Sometimes when I start a book I will underline repetitive words or just words that stand out to me. It gives me a feel for what the author is trying to say. Sometimes it acts as a Greek chorus almost. I found that to be true when I read The Poisonwood Bible. It was almost a drumbeat across the page.

Anyway, I am sure you all will notice how often Wright uses repetition. The word "fear" jumps off the pages throughout.

I wish there were chapter #. It would make it easier to comment. I'll try my best.
In part 2
"after all, he was black and she was white. He was poor and she was rich.

A few paragraphs later.
"She was white and he was black she was rich and he was poor; she was old and he was young; she was he boss and he was the worker."

A few paragraphs later.
"He was black."

He makes the dividing lines clear. Do you think a lot has changes with these dividing lines?

Part 2

I just thought this was a great line.

Talking about Bigger.

"He had learned to shout and had shouted an no ear had heard him;..."

Part 2 NOT a spoiler--

More repetition with the word blind and multiple meanings. This is over the course of a few pages.

1- "he felt two soft palms holding his face tenderly and the though and image of the whole blind world which had made him ashamed and afraid fell away...."

2- "The same deep realization he had had that morning at home at the breakfast table while watching Vera and Buddy and his mother came back to him; only it was Bessie he was looking at now and seeing how blind she was."

3- "Bessie, too, was very blind."

4- Of course we have the actual blindness of Mrs. Dalton.

Part 2

Here is the wiki on Loeb and Leopold

Nathan Freudenthal Leopold, Jr. (November 19, 1904 – August 29, 1971)[1] and Richard Albert Loeb (June 11, 1905 – January 28, 1936), more commonly known as "Leopold and Loeb", were two wealthy University of Chicago students who kidnapped and murdered 14-year-old Robert "Bobby" Franks in 1924 in Chicago.[2]

The duo was motivated to murder Franks by their desire to commit a perfect crime.

Once apprehended, the men's parents retained Clarence Darrow as counsel for the defense. Darrow's summation in their trial is noted for its influential criticism of capital punishment as retributive, rather than transformative justice. Both were sentenced to life imprisonment. Loeb was killed by a fellow prisoner in 1936; Leopold was released on parole in 1958.

The Leopold and Loeb crime has been the inspiration for several works in film, theatre, and fiction, such as the 1929 play Rope by Patrick Hamilton, and Alfred Hitchcock's take on the play in the 1948 film of the same name. Later movies such as Compulsion and Swoon were also based on the crime.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_...

Part 1

I thought this line gave us good insight into Bigger.

Page 42 in my book.

"That was the way he lived; he passed his days trying to defeat or gratify powerful impulses in a world he feared."

Alias Reader wrote: "Part 2

Here is the wiki on Loeb and Leopold

Nathan Freudenthal Leopold, Jr. (November 19, 1904 – August 29, 1971)[1] and Richard Albert Loeb (June 11, 1905 – January 28, 1936), more commonly know..."

I saw "Compulsion" as a play. It was a few years before the movie version. Starred Roddy McDowall and Dean Stockwell. It was spellbinding. Not a great success on Broadway, it was likely too much -- if you know what I mean. But I still remember the performances.

Thanks, Barbara ! I see my library has the DVD and also the play. I am putting them on my To see and Read list.

I think I have a book on the case. I am headed out the door to the gym but I will have to look over my books when I get back.

Part 2: Flight

Bigger commits two terrible crimes and he is put on trial for life. Bigger is convicted and sentence to the electric chair. Through it all, Bigger struggles to discuss his feelings, but he can neither find the words to fully express himself nor does he have the time to say them. Bigger, the typical outsider has finally discovered the only important and real thing: which is his life.

How come this young man doesn't know right from wrong? Is it that there is no father figure? Is it that his mom is overworked and in need of someone to step forward and help her. First, Bigger acts like a derelict, where is the young man? Then, he admits that he would have like to be an pilot. Sadly, Bessie, an habitual alcoholic, buries her negative self-esteem in liquor which takes her into a downward spiral. Not only is she allowed Bigger to drag her along on something she didn't want to do. But then Bigger goes even further, and murders her.

Why does Bigger rape those who are his "friends?" Is Bessie someone he cares about, or someone to treat terribly? Does he consider Bessie as a human being? Or is rape the only way men can dominate their relationship with their girls/women? Bigger went directly to Bessie and told her the whole story. Bessie knew that white people will think he raped the white girl before killing her, so is that is why he raped Bessie? Bigger drags Bessie around because she is paralyzed by fear.

In the abandoned building, Bigger rapes her, and then he falls asleep. In the morning, Bigger decides to kill Bessie. Why? Did he think twice before he went ahead? I don't think so. In his lack of planning, he hits Bessie with a brick and then throws her through a window into an air shaft. Then BIGGER realizes that the ONLY MONEY HE HAD WAS IN HER POCKET. So sad.

Carol wrote: "Part 2: Flight

How come this young man doesn't know right from wrong? Is it that there is no father figure? Is it that his mom is overworked and in need of someone to step forward and help her..."

I am finding it hard to articulate my feeling on this. I tried in an earlier post up thread.

The book was published in 1940. I think Wright is using Bigger as a symbol. He is warning that society must change it's racist ways or inevitable violence and revolution will come.

Thoughout the pages we keep reading how Bigger is constantly reminded by others and himself that he is Black. He is not seen as a person but his color.

Bigger can only respond, as we read on page 150 part 2, with "shame, fear and hate". The shame leads to fear and the fear leads to hate which leads to violence. It's a vicious cycle.

Bigger responds to everything this way. He can't help it. Wright is telling us that society can't keep acting this way and not reap the violent consequences that it has sowed.

Just one example is shown in part 2. First, out of fear, he kills. Then in Part 2 we read his reaction to his girlfriend asking what he did. He rsponds this way. "He felt suddenly that he wanted something in his hand, something solid and heavy: his gun, a knife, a brick."

Thne a third time (page 151) when Peggy is talking to him. We read. "He stiffened; if she saw something that would make her ask him about Mary he would take the iron shovel and let her have it straight across her head and then take the car and make a quick getaway.

We constantly read Bigger's reaction to events is that he feels a "tight, hot choking fear".

I see the book as a warning. I hope I am making sense.

I have to head over now to my neighbors for a bit but I'll try to post again later tonight.

You're right on that -- "He is not seen as a person but by his color."

Also . . . "I see the book as a warning." So true.

Thanks Alias!

I received my notice that the book is waiting for me at the Library. I will be picking it up today.

We do need to remember that it was written in 1940. I definitely agree with that. However, we also need to remember that the life expectancy of young Black males is not great even today.

The great concern for me is that we tend to create stereotypes and that is true not just regarding African-Americans.

Hope to get in a bunch of reading today.

Alias Reader wrote: "Carol wrote: "Part 2: Flight

How come this young man doesn't know right from wrong? Is it that there is no father figure? Is it that his mom is overworked and in need of someone to step forward an..."

Thank you for this explanation, Alias. I tried to read the book, but it was just too sad. I guess having lived through the civil rights era, I'm painfully aware of the message and wasn't prepared to relive it.

Carol wrote: "You're right on that -- "He is not seen as a person but by his color."

Also . . . "I see the book as a warning." So true.

Thanks Alias!"

It's just how I am interpreting things. I am sure others have different ideas. It will be fun to hear everyone's take on the novel.

I also noted as I read today in Part 2. page 168
When he was being questioned by Mr. Dalton and Britten with Jan there they kept referring to Bigger as "boy".

So not only is he not seen as an individual but a color. He isn't even worthy of a name.

Bobbie57 wrote: "I received my notice that the book is waiting for me at the Library. I will be picking it up today.

We do need to remember that it was written in 1940. I definitely agree with that. However, we al..."

Glad the book is ready for you to pick up today !

You are right about life expectancy, Barbara.

Here is one article on the topic from NBC news

Homicide 'directly affecting' racial gap in U.S. life expectancy, study shows

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/mens-he...

Cindy wrote: Thank you for this explanation, Alias. I tried to read the book, but it was just too sad..."

Sorry to hear you are not going to be reading it with us. :(

It's a sad book but I think it's quite the page turner, too.

As I am sure there are many editions of this book I thought I would post this from the introduction of the book I picked up Tuesday.

It was written by Arnold Rampersad copyrighted in 1993.
It tells of his Communist ideology and puts him in the class of "naturalist" writers. There was a trial in May 1938 when a similar case broke in Chicago. "That month Robert Nixon, a young black man, along with an accomplice, was arrested and charged with the murder of a white woman beaten to death with a brick in her apartment in the course of a robbery. Securing virtually all the newspaper clippings about the Nixon case Wright used many of its details in his novel."

"Although the Nixon trial material helped Wright, he was still left with the supreme problem of creating a fictional narrative with so brutalized and limited a character at its core. In a way, this was the same dilemma that faced all the major naturalist writers - for example, Stephen Crane in "Maggie: A Girl of the Streets" or Frank Norris in "McTeague"; but Wright's difficulties were more severe because it is hard to think of a central character in all of literature who is less likeable than Bigger Thomas."

I'm only on page 42, but holy moly he has serious problems dealing with his emotions!

Bobbie57 wrote: "As I am sure there are many editions of this book I thought I would post this from the introduction of the book I picked up Tuesday.

It was written by Arnold Rampersad copyrighted in 1993.
It tell..."


That's the edition I have. I quoted from Rampersad in post 11.

It's a very interesting essay !

Thanks Alias, I hadn't read all the posts carefully as I hadn't started the book yet. Yes, it is a most interesting essay. I almost passed it by because sometimes the introductions are "too much." But I am really glad that I did read it.

Does the intro have any spoilers? I skipped it for now...

I would read it after, Julie.

I already read the novel so it didn't matter to me.

Ok, thanks!

How is everyone coming along with the book? I am almost done with part 2.

The only downside for me so far is the character of Britten. He is poorly written. His dialogue is amateurish.

I just finished part 1. I like it a lot so far!

Great, Julie !

I finished up Part 2 last night.

The book is as good as I remember it.

Just some random thoughts on the Part 2 and things I underlined in my book. My last post on this section was up to 168. So this is from 168 to the end of Part 2.

Notice how many times Bigger is described by his skin color. Not only by others but himself. It defines him. And in this case boxes him in.

Notice how often the word "blind" and black are used.
Just some more examples.
The windows of a building on page 173 are described as "black windows, like blind eyes"
P175 "Yes; Bessie was blind."
P180 Bessie speaking- "I'm black and I work and don't bother nobody...."
p181 Bigger referring to Bessie- He brought his eyes farther round and looked at her; she was staring with blank eyes, like a blind woman..."
p183 "His black open pam swept upward in a swift narrow arc and smacked solidly against her face."

Every page. The author won't let you forget. Just like Bigger was never allowed to forget.

P 229 Bessie :(
"All my life's been full of hard trouble. If I wasn't hungry, I was sick. And if I wasn't sick, I was in trouble.. I ain't never bothered nobody. I just worked hard every day as long as I can remember, till I was tired enough to drop; then I had to get drunk to forget it. I had to get drunk to sleep. That's all I ever did."

P235- Notice how Bigger after killing Bessie, refers to her as "it". She, much like Bigger, was referred to as "boy" she now loses her personhood. You can mistreat someone when you don't think of them as sentient beings.

"Yes, that was what he cold do with it, throw it out of the window, down the narrow air-shaft where nobody would find it until, perhaps, it had begun to smell."

More on Part 2

This line caught my eye. Well written
P237
"A cold chill, colder than the air of the room, closed about his shoulders like a shawl whose strands were woven of ice."

P241
Loved the way Wright wove the image of Christ into the story.
"If only someone had gone before and lived or suffered or died- made it so that it could be understood! It was too stark, not redeemed, not made real with the reality that was the warm blood of life. He felt that there was something missing, some road which, if had once found, would have led him to a sure and quiet knowledge."

P 241
Even the Newspaper don't call him by name "Hunt black in girl's death."
p242-243
Negro chauffeur disappears"
"Negro's home" "Miss Dalton met her death at the hand of the Negro..."
"Indignation rose to "white heat" last night ast he news of the Negro's rape..."

Everything is defined by color.

Interesting how Part 2 ends and he book begins. Bigger is trapped much like the rat that he killed at the start of the book. A good piece of foreshadowing.

I look forward to everyone's comments. Please remember to put the Part number at the beginning of your post !

I just started and I am in Part 2. I am amazed that this was written in 1940. I have some definite thoughts, but do not feel like posting them right now.

Happy New Year to everyone!

Cathy wrote: "I just started and I am in Part 2. I am amazed that this was written in 1940. I have some definite thoughts, but do not feel like posting them right now.

Happy New Year to everyone!"

I am almost done with the book. I have about 60 pages to go.

Yes, it is amazing that this book was written in 1940. It was a book of the month selection. However, they made them change some things like the scene in the movie theater at the start of the book. It has since been restored.

I finished the novel today.

*** comments to follow for entire book ****

I thought it can be a bit hard to understand Bigger and his notion that he felt liberated or good after the murders. One thing that helped me understand him a bit better was the line from the old song, Me and Bobby McGee.

"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose,
Nothing don't mean nothing honey if it ain't free, now now."

Did you notice we never learn Bigger's real name? We don't even hear it in court.

Then there is that disgusting diatribe in court by the prosecutor Buckley. I sure hope that even in 1940, the court would not allow the defendant to be called a black ape, bestial monstrosity, black mad dog, etc.

Also the newspapers call him all sorts of horrid names, too.

*** Spoiler discussion questions to follow the next few posts.

1- In what ways does Wright portray Bigger’s day-to-day existence as a prison, even before his arrest and trial?

I think this is key. Bigger realizes that he will not be allowed to change his life in any meaningful way. He can only live in designated slum areas, receive a poor education, and only allowed menial jobs in the military etc. There is no way out. It's a prison and from which he will never be paroled.

He dreams of being a pilot but knows that he would never be able to attend school to train for that profession regardless of his ability.

Wright emphasizes this at the start when the novel opens and Bigger is hanging out with his friends and talks of what he would like to do with his life. Then Wright brings it back at the end when he discusses the topic with his lawyer, Max.

2- Describe the real estate practices that were applied to black families in Chicago’s South Side in the 1930s. With these practices in mind, why is Mr. Dalton—an avowed philanthropist toward blacks—a hypocrite?
------------

At first I thought that Dalton was the actual landlord/owner of the slum building that Bigger's family lived in. Than later on it said he owned stock in the company that owned the building.

I think it's important to know what you are investing in as that is a someone tacit support of the product or actions of a company. Though with multi-nationals that is not always so easy.

A more recent example is when many funds divested from companies that did business with south Africa during apartheid.

It does seem hypocritical to donate money on one hand and then invest and profit in slum buildings.

3-Describe Jan and Mary’s attitude toward race relations. In what ways does their more subtle racism resemble the more overt prejudice of other whites?
--------------

I think Jan and Mary were just ignorant and idealistic. I really think they thought they were doing something good by having Bigger eat with them and the other things they did.

6- Is Bigger’s trial a fair one? In Wright’s portrayal, how does racism affect the American judicial process? What role does the media play in determining popular conceptions of justice?
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No. Bigger's lawyer wasn't given time to prepare. It seemed he didn't even know what witnesses were going to be called by the prosecutor. It was a foregone conclusion as to what the outcome would be.

Though I think much of the novel is not to be taken too literally. Wright is trying to make a point and takes poetic license. He does the same when there is a parade of people in Bigger's jail cell. He admits that is not a likely scene in the intro to my book. However, he was trying to make a bigger point.

Though I don't know if anyone wouldn't be jailed for life or given the death penalty for the two very horrible murders he committed. I especially felt so bad for Bigger's girlfriend, Bessie. The idea that she didn't die in the fall and froze to death is too much to contemplate.