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Sounds intriguing. What exactly would you like to talk about?
Have you read anything by Sartre or Camus?
Philosophy is useless, pointless, mirthless. Don't waste your time on it.
I started a book on the topic of philosophy once: The Pleasures of Philosophy. I think I read a chapter or two before realising I did not understand a word of it. But I still would love to read about it. Maybe I need to start with an easier book. Any suggestions?
I think History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russel is a book for beginners, if anybody wants to know the basics then this is a must read book
Zarshal wrote: "I started a book on the topic of philosophy once: The Pleasures of Philosophy. I think I read a chapter or two before realising I did not understand a word of it. But I still would love to read abo..."I agree with the above suggestion but I would recommend Sophie’s World, a novel.
Muhammad Ozair wrote: "Sounds intriguing. What exactly would you like to talk about?"First of all, Existentialism. Have you read it...
Nuzhat wrote: "Have you read anything by Sartre or Camus?"Yes I have... not all of their works, of course. The Stranger, The Myth of Sisyphus, The Fall, reading The Plague. Sartre’s The age of Reason... and I have read about them here and there. What about you ?
M wrote: "Nuzhat wrote: "Have you read anything by Sartre or Camus?"Yes I have... not all of their works, of course. The Stranger, The Myth of Sisyphus, The Fall, reading The Plague. Sartre’s The age of Re..."
I have read The Stranger and The Fall. And with other books you mentioned, I am generally acquanited. Which of these did you find best?
Have I explicitly read about it?Well no. . . . .
But from what I can gather from (I shit you not) memes :
Something about the meaning of life and/or being responsible for ones actions?
Jogi wrote: "Philosophy is useless, pointless, mirthless. Don't waste your time on it."If you don't like it that doesn't mean it's pointless
Sundus wrote: "Jogi wrote: "Philosophy is useless, pointless, mirthless. Don't waste your time on it."If you don't like it that doesn't mean it's pointless"
How can you claim to like philosophy and then commit such a blatant strawman fallacy?
Jogi wrote: "Sundus wrote: "Jogi wrote: "Philosophy is useless, pointless, mirthless. Don't waste your time on it."If you don't like it that doesn't mean it's pointless"
How can you claim to like philosophy ..."
Lol Dude take it easy !!!
Do you even know what strawman fallacy is ?
You're god of Moses. Jehovah said Thou shall not read philosophy !!!
Sundus wrote: "Jogi wrote: "Sundus wrote: "Jogi wrote: "Philosophy is useless, pointless, mirthless. Don't waste your time on it."If you don't like it that doesn't mean it's pointless"
How can you claim to lik..."
Yes I know. It's when your opponent says something is pointless and he may or may not have given his reasons but instead of asking for clarification of his reasons, you assume on his part that his reasons were probably already retarded.
Anything else?
@SundusAh don't mind him , he's a bit of a troll .
I have read about western philosophers, an overview of their work (their political ideas) right now reading The Prince by Machiavelli. would love some recommendations.
Muhammad Ozair wrote: "@SundusAh don't mind him , he's a bit of a troll ."
What's the point in reading so many books if you still haven't learned that all great men were little bit of trolls and that trolling is essentially more high-minded than it is given credit for?
I suggest you log out of this site permanently. Your readings have done you no good. It's badreads for you.
Tehreem wrote: "I have read about western philosophers, an overview of their work (their political ideas) right now reading The Prince by Machiavelli. would love some recommendations."
Are you interested in philosophy or political theory? Because one of these is actually useful. If you still want the useless thing, I will recommend Philosophical Investigations by Ludwig Wittgenstein and there you should end. Ok, maybe you can try David Hume too. Just don't go any further than that.
@jogi why on earth are you so pretentious? you literally sound like a christopher nolan film. and please spare everyone the pain of you saying "oh, but i only sound pretentious because you percieve me as such". get off your high horse.
Nuzhat wrote: "M wrote: "Nuzhat wrote: "Have you read anything by Sartre or Camus?"Yes I have... not all of their works, of course. The Stranger, The Myth of Sisyphus, The Fall, reading The Plague. Sartre’s The..."
The Fall has more conceptual depth, possibly as this was Camus' last book, but my favorite among them is The Stranger. It is sublime and unique. The plague is somewhat different from the both. The Myth of Sisyphus is purely philosophical work.
Sartre is obsessed with Freedom, among other things, in the only book i have read. Also, I gather he is a much better philosopher than a novelist so his philosophical works must be more interesting.
Whats do you think about The Stranger and The Fall? Or anything else you want to share...
Elsa wrote: "@jogi why on earth are you so pretentious? you literally sound like a christopher nolan film. and please spare everyone the pain of you saying "oh, but i only sound pretentious because you perciev..."
What am I pretending?
I mean, if you're talking about the way I talk then ... don't hate my swag, I guess.
Muhammad Ozair wrote: "Have I explicitly read about it?Well no. . . . .
But from what I can gather from (I shit you not) memes :
Something about the meaning of life and/or being responsible for ones actions?"
Meaning of life and being responsible for one's actions are quite general topics in philosophy. Almost every philosopher has written about it, albeit in his own different way.
Anyways, what do you say about the meaning of life. Is there a meaning to life... speaking in rational terms?
and what about the responsiblity of our actions or more weight should be given to the circumstances. what do you say about the red tape in our society...
Also I realize that this discussion is taking an unwanted turn. Mainly due to the initial comments by the person with a very interesting name. Please let's keep this discussion a subjective one. But it's your choice, I am not stopping anyone. Let's see where this goes from here.
Also if anyone feels he is way above our level, he/she should just leave us in our bliss of ignorance for now. We are all trying to learn and be better in our lives. Spare us from your conclusive remarks and let us enjoy the journey...
I will let you enjoy the journey if you were actually on the road you claim you are. It's the 24th post in this thread where philosophy is actually getting discussed; above are either ad hominems perpetrated by sensitive snowflakes or discussions about philosophers, not philosophy. Ironically, my 'disruptive' initial post is actually the only post, after the OP, which invites a discussion on philosophy, but sadly fishes see everything as bait.More than 3000 years of philosophy hasn't enlightened us at all about the meaning of life or moral culpability (or any other subject of philosophy). In my opinion, it ended with Aristotle. It can be argued that philosophy teaches critical thought but in retrospect, philosophers are very bad at thinking; they keep arguing in circles about badly phrased questions (e.g meaning of life), regularly classify questions wrongly (e.g discovering consciousness via manipulations of definitions), often commit category mistake (e.g if a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it, did it really make a sound?), and so on. All of that lines up perfectly with the observation that philosophy has never made any practical contributions whatsoever. It has inspired a few, but so have toilets.
If philosophy doesn't teach critical thought and doesn't solve the problems it sets out to solve, then what does it actually do? More importantly, what's the alternative?
I dare not say science, but it is science. More accurately, empirical methods in general. Critical thought is much better elucidated by Psychology (Behavioral Economics and Organizational Psychology), which, better than philosophy, highlights and quantifies the cognitive biases humans are susceptible to. Instead of relegating 'thought' to some metaphysical plane where it's bastardized until thought becomes a philosophy, Psychology recognizes that human thought is actually -- wait for it -- human; and that you can't make sense of what you're studying if you constantly keep departing from it (and this error runs throughout the string of philosophy's subjects; the reason why the existentialist philosophy were somehow more successful than the nihilists or believers of the divine was not because their arguments were more solid; it was because their ideas were closer to human psyche but still not quite there). As for the problems it purports to solve or enlighten us about, I think science in general is doing a pretty good job of that without needing any help from philosophy .. at all.
As for what philosophy actually does, now that's an interesting question. Clearly philosophy has an appeal; perhaps you started reading philosophy because you wanted to answer your existential queries, or because it seemed r/iamverysmart stuff, but you kept on reading way beyond the discovery that there are no answers to be found or enlightenment to be had. There are scraps of wisdom here and there which have nothing to do with philosophy (e.g there were many bits about proper argumentation in Schopenhauer's books) and maybe they keep you going. But I doubt very many people consciously read philosophy because occasionally, after every 100 pages, they found something valuable.
The real reason why people continue to read philosophy is ... aesthetic. It has its own aesthetic appeal. The Myth of Sisyphus is actually one of my favorite books, not because it makes a very strong argument or actually answers the question it poses (which is what philosophy is supposed to do); I like it because it's non-philosophy masquerading as philosophy. It appeals to emotion, which, believe it or not, a LOT of philosophy books do but try to not make that obvious (I think Nietzsche made a very similar remark in Beyond Good and Evil, a remark which wasn't impermeable itself -- did I say something about running in circles?). This aesthetic can, depending on your circumstances, have therapeutic value. I remember The Myth was one of my main crutches when I was severely depressed in 2016. There's a reason why philosophy geeks are either severely depressed or are coffee table aesthetes (I have a strong feeling you folks are the latter; well, I hope you are).
So there is indeed value in philosophy, but it's not inherent to philosophy. It's a by-product of philosophy. The best it can do is be therapeutic, and on average it serves as a slightly better dinner table conversation than PSL matches. Worst? it can actually delude you into thinking that this particular philosophy is the truth.
In short, you're free to read philosophy for its aesthetics. Just be absolutely clear that philosophy will not answer your existential queries, and it's not profound at all.
M wrote:Yes I have... not all of their works, of course. The Stranger, The Myth of Sisyphus, The Fall, reading The Plagu..."
I have read three works of Camus, The Stranger, The Plague & The Fall, I know about the Myth also... The Fall is my favourite. It appeals to an audience who has seen the best and the worst of mankind. In this, Camus acquaints humans with their own hypocrisy while revealing that it isn't their fault either by connecting it to Christianity and Jesus' fall, and finally leaving with a beautiful message, that humans have only their ownselves to save, no external help is coming. It is a must read, I'd say. The protagonist Clemence, a judge-penitent, appeals to all...
@JogiOnce upon a time that comment would have offended me but as it is I can't help but giggle at how frivolous this is.
Your way of speech and the not so subtle reference to reddit lead me to believe the effects of 4chan are at play. But then again , I may be wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
I'm obviously not getting into an argument with you because
(1) I have little to no experience with philosophy.
(2) To be honest I didn't understand half of what you said up there.
As for badreads (lmao) , it was just that until recently with all the inactivity.
But the surge in discussion and your trolling does so lighten the mood.
As they say , Laughter is the best medicine.
@Bajwa MI'm making this up on the spot so expect it to be a little excursive .
Well I grew up in a somewhat religious household.
For me personally the meaning of life would be to live a Good , happy and as morally righteous a life as possible.
Enjoy life , while fulfilling responsibility and if circumstances allow helping those around at least every once in a while.
Responsibly for actions and red tape seem to be too general to answer in any fulfilling way.
Hey! Does anyone have an epub copy of A History of Western Philosophy? Or any idea where I might find one?
I’ve been searching for it but didn’t find it online.
Thanks in advance!
https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=...Click on any of the mirrors... plus this website is quite useful
You’re welcome!
Muhammad Ozair wrote: "@SundusAh don't mind him , he's a bit of a troll ."
@jogi are you genio retardo?
bruh this guy trolled the fuck out of me back in 2016. wtf happened to you. you sound so serious now. smh .
Salaam freinds, I am Ahmad.This is an interesting discussion. I will contribute to this discussion by sharing a poem on the topic of philosophy by Allama Iqbal:
افکار جوانوں کے خفي ہوں کہ جلي ہوں
پوشيدہ نہيں مرد قلندر کي نظر سے
...
As for suggestions for books to read on philosophy I would suggest the following:
The crisis of the modern world by Rene Guenon
Man, the unknown by Alexis Carrel
Man does not stand alone by Abraham Cressy Morrison
Guide to modern wickedness by Edwin Mitchinson Joad
What is to be done? By Dr Ali Shariati
Time and Free Will by henri Bergson
..these are just a few titles im english which I personally have benefited from.....other modern authors I would recommend is people like Sulaiman Nadwi, Dr Khalifa Abdul Hakim, Sayyed Hossain Nasr, etc.
To conclude this comment I would like to say that I strongly believe that philosophy, like everything else around us, should only be utilised to drive us towards great purposes and lofty goals (maqasid) and should not make us stationary and useless.. thanks guys
@Bilal.ofc he's Genio . Who else speaks like that.
And I'm pretty sure he's trolled us all at one point or another .
serious? with all the fancy vocabulary jogi sprinkled in , I kinda had to do it to em
Muhammad Ozair wrote: "@Bilal.ofc he's Genio . Who else speaks like that.
And I'm pretty sure he's trolled us all at one point or another .
serious? with all the fancy vocabulary jogi sprinkled in , I kinda had to do it..."
sounds more like a salty grandma now.
Bilal wrote: "Muhammad Ozair wrote: "@SundusAh don't mind him , he's a bit of a troll ."
@jogi are you genio retardo?
bruh this guy trolled the fuck out of me back in 2016. wtf happened to you. you sound so s..."
I was always a deeply serious person.
Zarshal wrote: "I started a book on the topic of philosophy once: The Pleasures of Philosophy. I think I read a chapter or two before realising I did not understand a word of it. But I still would love to read abo..."(@Zarshal and any other beginner) You may like to start with "Sofie's World" by Jostein Gaarder - its a Novel written with the aim to introduce the subject of philosophy to young minds in an interesting manner!
I started The History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell. I’m liking it so far. Sophie’s World is up next!
I have a special fondness for Philosophy due to various reasons. This group seems to be dry on the subject or maybe I haven’t searched enough. I would like to start a discussion on Philosophy or Existentialism specifically. If anyone is interested or shares this fondness for Philosophy, please share your views. You can check what I am reading or what I have read on my profile. Also, I believe Philosophy has the key to help us with many of our crisis. I want to write more... but let’s see how this goes.