2015: The Year of Reading Women discussion

Discussion thread for The Joys of Motherhood. Group read commences on January 11, 2015.

How's everyone finding this read so far?:)

I'm still waiting for the book. Sorry.

I'm enjoying it! At first I wasn't sure about the writing style, which is very direct and primarily descriptive of events, but I'm now caught up in the story and the pages are flying. Of course, the cultural differences between my own world and Nnu Ego's are jarring, and I think the simplicity with which Emecheta mentions patriarchal norms serves to underline just how ever-present motherhood is as a concept and an ideal.

While the suffering of women is in the forefront, Emecheta does not shy away from showing how men also feel the burden of cultural expectations, albeit it a different way. I really appreciate that layer of complexity.
What about you, Rowena? and everyone :)

I'm sorry you all, as usual, I've miscalculated the calendar for reading this book and I've gone and read it already.

Lisa, I agree--direct simplicity is her style and you can tell that it is all about the storytelling. What I found interesting is that modern women (and men) still feel the same way about motherhood and a woman's choice whether she wants to be a mother or not; it makes you wonder just how much the world has changed. And how Emecheta showcases a patriarchal society and demonstrates the male-female role, as you mention, is also very interesting.

Cynthia wrote: "I'm still waiting for the book. Sorry."

Don't worry, we'll still be here when you're ready to discuss.

Lisa wrote: "I'm enjoying it! At first I wasn't sure about the writing style, which is very direct and primarily descriptive of events, but I'm now caught up in the story and the pages are flying. Of course, th..."

Hi Lisa,

For some reason I associate that sort of writing style with African literature written about the colonial days. I've finished the book and I found it fascinating. So many topics for discussion!
The patriarchy theme is one that comes across very strongly and having lived in Africa for several years I recognize some of the comments and the sentiments.
I have more to add but I'll wait until more people have had a chance to read it.

Cheryl wrote: "I'm sorry you all, as usual, I've miscalculated the calendar for reading this book and I've gone and read it already.

Lisa, I agree--direct simplicity is her style and you can tell that it is all..."

No worries, Cheryl. I'm not sure whether we actually had a reading schedule. I finished it a day or two ago.

Yes, it doesn't seem like much has changed regarding motherhood and choice. I guess we have more choices living here in the West but just imagine if we lived in Africa; nobody would be able to understand our wanting to do something not related to having children or supporting kids and family.

Haven't managed to pick it up yet, but I probably will soon and then I'll add my thoughts here! I'm glad we're not following a very restrictive schedule, but your descriptions sounds tempting and exciting, Lisa and Rowena!

Hi Ruby, looking forward to reading your thoughts:)

Loving it.

I finished the book quickly on days when I was travelling a lot and not able to come to the thread.

I enjoyed the simple and direct prose, and I think if you pay attention you pick up a lot of subtle irony that might not be expected in the context of this style:

"[Nnu Ego] crawled further into the urine-stained mats on her bug-ridden bed, enjoying the knowledge of her motherhood"

Simplicity can mislead readers to think that the author isn't sharply clever and witty.

I find the review quotes from other writers on my edition quite thought provoking. John Updike writes that the tale 'bears a plain feminist message'. Emecheta has Nnu Ego eventually pronounce this message directly:

"God, when will you create a woman who will be fulfilled in herself, a full human being, not anybody's appendage?"

but Updike's remark actually seems to me rather to belittle the book's complexity as Emecheta uses Nnu Ego's perspective to compare two ways of life, both highly patriarchal (let's talk more about these two zones!)

Another 'compliment' from The Sunday Times (a British newspaper) reads 'Emecheta is a born writer'. No doubt well intended, this comment is often made condescendingly about writers of colour, especially female, and even white women, who are seen to have produced great art by chance, by a freakish gift of talent, rather than by effort and intelligence.

Irony, symbolism, you name it. I love your thoughts on this book, Zanna. Though the prose was direct and simple, there was no one feminist message here, for Nnu did some probing throughout this novel. Even the so-called "joys of motherhood" she pondered. We saw her go through cultural and economic change, marital change, and more. And as she triumphed over each problem, she pondered life at its different stages.

Loved your thoughts, Zanna! Yes, her prose is very subtle at times. I have a lot of thoughts on patriarchy that I will share when I get home. I also have TONS of thoughts on colonialism as one of the incidents in the book mirrors something in my own cultural history.

Cheryl wrote: "Irony, symbolism, you name it. I love your thoughts on this book, Zanna. Though the prose was direct and simple, there was no one feminist message here, for Nnu did some probing throughout this nov..."

I wish I had my book with me! Your comment made me think about the second wife. She turned to prostitution and was able to support herself and her kids. I felt Emecheta was showing women do have options though perhaps not socially acceptable ones.

Oh you make a great point, Rowena! Adaku, right? She was a prostitute for a bit, and then turned her earnings into a business. Yes, she (Emecheta) did paint various shades of womanhood and motherhood, didn't she?

Oh yes, that's her name! I remember Nnu Ego at one point seemed quite envious of her. I need to re-read that passage.

Thanks Cheryl & Rowena = )

I think the dynamic between Nnu Ego and Adaku was totally fascinating. Even when Nnu Ego is admiring her appearance on arrival, and judging from it how she will behave and get along with Nnaife (though she isn't entirely correct). My heart sank when she didn't respond warmly and kindly to Adaku's friendly and respectful greeting and was rude to her later (this fighting between women I see as a divide and rule effect of male domination). In the same vein it was depressing to hear Adaku tell Nnu Ego's son, Oshia, that 'you are worth ten Dumbis!' in front of her daughter, Dumbi. I felt, although it may have been coincidence that conversations and segments worked out that way, that in the pre-colonial context all children were welcomed and it was only in the Lagos context that the obsession with sons was emphasised, because of the constant economic struggle. The pitch of misogyny sometimes seemed such that I felt girl-children would be killed by poor parents if they were not seen as saleable goods.

Looking forward to talking about colonialism Rowena!

Hi Zanna, I agree, I was sometimes disappointed in Nnu Ego by how she treated Adaku.I think that initially I wasn't such a fan of Adaku but when I read what she said about not being a primary wife and therefore not having the honour of being buried in her husband's village (or something like that), I honestly felt so bad for her because she knew she would always be second best.

One thing that really bothered me was how the British forced the Nigerians to enter the British army and fight in Burma. The same thing happened to men in my ethnic group and I find it so ridiculous that they would want these men to fight for them having had no respect for them whatsoever. That British doctor, I forgot his name, he called Nnaife a baboon for goodness sake!

For someone who hasn't read much African literature or non-fiction, this book was a real eye opener.

I wondered why Nnu Ego continued to have more children when they certainly didn't have the money or room for them. Did it have something to do with high infant mortality or the hope that that more children would guarantee help in your old age? Poor Nnu Ego, it didn't work out that way for her. Such hard, hard lives.

Hi Cynthia,

I think in answer to your question, both your comments are probably correct. Not only that but contraception and family planning are relatively new concepts in Africa so I'd imagine back in the 1930s they were unheard of.

That was my interpretation - she didn't choose to fall pregnant again and again

Thanks for recommending this author, Rowena.

It was actually Carrie's recommendation:) I'm really happy she suggested it as well!

I finished through the fourth chapter this afternoon. Even though I have enough book-related commitments going concurrently, this one has captured my attention enough that I shall stay with it. I supposedly read her The Bride Price back in 1996 with my f2f club, but I don't remember much of it. Several members of our group, past and present, have spent time in Africa, so they have helped expose us to a few African writers.

I want to know the story of the woman running away, Nnu Ego, I presume. The background story of her mother and father was full of audacious courage and passion. Cultures in which women are chattel are so hard to fathom.

It is hard to fathom that a person must be chattel because of their sex, but I am White, British and I think women only just ceased to be chattel in my culture in law, so recently that we are still marked with many signs of being chattel, even to our very names

I finished the book and I'm excited to join in the conversation! You've all made some insightful comments about patriarchy, colonialism etc. that have got me thinking.

Even though I've read a few other books that deal with the same subject, it's still startling to have certain aspects of a patriarchal society spelled out for you. In particular, when Nnaife sleeps with his new wife in the same room as Nnu Ego - I just can't even imagine how much suffering women had to swallow in order to maintain healthy relationships with everyone in a household.

The idea that women are never in control of their own lives is powerful whether it is illustrated in the traditions of the village or in the newer, urban ways of Lagos. Nnu Ego's chi was a slave girl who was expected to willingly jump into the grave of her former master. This custom is so foreign to anything I know that I can't even begin to process how a person could be raised to believe this tradition and jump in. Nnu Ego's chi struggled with this, however, and Nnu Ego shares a similar spirit - she remains devoted to the traditional ways of Ibuza (relative to other women in Lagos) yet continually questions and feels stifled by them. Is her sacrifice and lack of agency any less than that of her chi? I think it's debatable.

Re: Nigerians conscripted into the British army - at first I thought Emecheta must be exaggerating. To spend years fighting abroad without ever understanding why there is war? It adds a whole other horrendous dimension to the war.

The book also made me ponder conservative or outdated ways of thinking and how easily we dismiss them, in any society. Having spent so much time with Nnu Ego, it was heartbreaking to see her ridiculed in the courtroom for the very beliefs that shaped her tragedy. Oof.

Hi Lisa,

I love your comments and insights!

I think I chose not to remember the slave girl being murdered when her mistress died, that was so distressing and I don't think I've heard of anything like that before.

From what I've researched on African WW1 and WW2 veterans, a lot of them really didn't understand why there was a war. I mean, it looks like the British didn't bother to spell it out to them, after all how to explain that to an illiterate African man? They were probably just seen as disposables anyway so there was no need to even explain to them what was going on.

Yes, that courtroom scene was poignant because it was obvious that despite having lived the majority of her life in Lagos, Nnu Ego had been socialized in the village and therefore it would have been difficult for her to change her ways of thinking.

What did you think about Nnu Ego's mother not wanting to marry?

Rowena, I really like your comment about "choosing not to remember" - isn't it so true! I wonder how much we choose not to remember. It's kind of scary to think about.

My mind is still mulling this over and so here are a few more thoughts!
I think the book also has a lot to say about poverty. Ultimately, much of the bitterness and resentment that exists between family members or even neighbours boils down to a lack of money, essential for buying food, education and status. This poverty is divisive, because it forces Nnaife and Nnu Ego to make choices - which children deserve to go to school? Which children get to eat enough to stay healthy? Are these even choices, or did tradition decide for them? The twins Kehinde and Taiwo are chronically malnourished, and I can only imagine that the same goes for the younger twins. We only really hear about Nnu Ego's eldest four children, and the other three are just there - requiring more care and food and whatnot than Nnu Ego can give. I believe this is a commentary on the importance of birth order, which allows the youngest children to be virtually forgotten. Similarly, the position of a wife (senior wife, second wife, mistress, etc.) within the household has so many repercussions on how she is expected to act. At first glance, "senior wife" seems like it would obviously be the coveted position. Emecheta doesn't let such a clear-cut understanding of hierarchy sit comfortably with us, however. The part where Nnu Ego wishes she could have the freedom to cry openly, like a younger wife, is poignant in this regard. The pressure of social and cultural expectations is so heavy that everyone comes out the loser, Nnaife and Oshia included. The Joys of Fatherhood is another novel waiting to be written, with an equally ironic title.

Cynthia wrote: "What did you think about Nnu Ego's mother not wanting to marry?"

Was it her choice? I'm fuzzy on the details of the early chapters, but I thought Ona's father would never let her marry. The pressure of being torn between her father and her love were such that she never wanted it to happen to her daughter, Nnu Ego. Her dying words to Agbadi: "see that however much you love our daughter Nnu Ego you allow her to have a life of her own, a husband if she wants one. Allow her to be a woman."

Of course, after reading the book, "being a woman" and "having a life of her own" seem like antithetical concepts.

Lisa wrote: "Rowena, I really like your comment about "choosing not to remember" - isn't it so true! I wonder how much we choose not to remember. It's kind of scary to think about.

My mind is still mulling th..."

Until I read your comment I'd completely forgotten about the slave girl incident, that's definitely scary! It reminded me a bit of Things Fall Apart when Okonkwo had to murder his adopted son because of a message from the ancestors(?).It's so brutal and although I have a Sociology and Anthropology background, it's impossible for me to even begin to understand things like that, it's just barbaric:(

Yes, it wasn't stated explicitly but it looks like Nnu Ego's kids were suffering from kwashiokor or marasmus. Being so isolated from one's tribe must have perpetuated poverty among migrants.

Emecheta mentions at least three ethnic groups, Igbo, Yoruba, and Hausa, I think she did so to show that to Africans tribe/ethnic group is more powerful than nationality. Even now, tribalism is still a huge issue in many parts of Africa. My thoughts are still kind of jumbled at this point but I think if there hadn't been colonialism, maybe the migration to the cities wouldn't have happened (as the cities were developed by the British, I'm assuming). Having to live so close to enemy tribe members must have been very difficult psychologically. I hope I'm making some sense!

And yes, I feel the system of favouring #1 to #2, #3 etc, be it children or wives, helped at creating divisiveness in the group. Like you said, Lisa, the parents had to decide which kids to send to school, etc, and Nnu Ego felt she had to stay tough for the family. Not an easy life at all.

Cynthia wrote: "What did you think about Nnu Ego's mother not wanting to marry?"

I found her to be a very interesting character! He relationship with her father was interesting. I was surprised by the sexual freedom he gave her. I often see Africa through a religious lens because the majority of the inhabitants are Muslim and Christian so it surprised me at first to note that there was probably more sexual freedoms in the old days before colonialism introduced Christianity. Even Nnaife was concerned about losing his job if his employers discovered he'd had a child before getting married in the Church.

Back to Nnu Ego's mother, I believe she was a smart woman, she saw how Nnu Ego's father treated his wives and concubines and she wanted something different for her life. Luckily for her, Nnu Ego's father was besotted with her, I guess; he definitely treated her better than he did his other women.

Rowena wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Rowena, I really like your comment about "choosing not to remember" - isn't it so true! I wonder how much we choose not to remember. It's kind of scary to think about.

My mind is sti..."

I need to go back and read Things Fall Apart one of these days. It was the first book I ever read by an African author, if I remember correctly, so I guess it's to blame for my penchant for African lit!

Interesting thoughts on tribalism and migration. It certainly seemed as though people were migrating to the cities because there were job opportunities connected to white men or colonial infrastructure. Is the process of urbanisation always connected to colonialism, either directly or indirectly, in colonised countries? Then again, tribalism does seem to be an issue in many countries with large rural populations - I'm thinking of Rwanda and Burundi, for example (though evidently still connected to colonialism). I think it's hard to generalise but the what ifs are intriguing. If the borders had been drawn differently, would there be as many ethnic conflicts?

Emecheta also raises the question of scale. In traditional Ibuza, it would be shocking enough to marry someone from another village. In Lagos, there is the further distinction between Western Ibo and Eastern Ibo, before the other tribes are even mentioned. There is little commentary made on Oshia's marriage to a white woman but I can't imagine it sitting well with Nnaife...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Joys...

This Wiki entry specifically on TJoM has several external links related to Emecheta's work, including a dissertation from Purdue University on "Motherhood in African Literature." Some may enjoy perusing it, at least briefly.

But I found even more interesting Anne M. Serafin's "Motherhood as Seen in Two Works of African Literature," which compares and contrasts Emecheta with a writing of Miriama Bâ, So Long a Letter.

"One critic, Carole Boyce Davies, who co-edited Ngambika, a major work on women in African literatures, sees the efforts of these writers as quite comparable-and comparably bold: '…writers like Buchi Emecheta and Miriama Bâ question and overturn some of the entire traditional attitudes to womanhood and women's place' (p. 242). Moreover, both works have become canonical in the field of African women's writing and are regularly assigned as readings in courses on African or postcolonial literature in colleges and universities...."

Cynthia wrote: "For someone who hasn't read much African literature or non-fiction, this book was a real eye opener. ..."

Cynthia -- very different snapshots of Africa, but if you found yourself drawn to African literature, two other authors you might want to consider are Assia Djebar, and Nuruddin Farah. Djebar writes about Algeria, Farah largely about Somalia and Ethiopia. They, of course, are only two out of many outstanding authors writing about that continent.

Rowena wrote: "That British doctor, I forgot his name, he called Nnaife a baboon for goodness sake! ..."

For a more current take on the pervasiveness and sensitivity to racial slurs across white and black boundaries, consider Claudia Rankine's Citizen: An American Lyric, twice nominated for National Book Critics Circle awards a few days ago (Poetry and Criticism). It is up for discussion elsewhere on this board. I enjoyed the insights of the comments in the blogs incorporated in Adichie's Americanah.

Lily wrote: "Cynthia wrote: "For someone who hasn't read much African literature or non-fiction, this book was a real eye opener. ..."

Cynthia -- very different snapshots of Africa, but if you found yourself d..."

Lily wrote: "Cynthia wrote: "For someone who hasn't read much African literature or non-fiction, this book was a real eye opener. ..."

Cynthia -- very different snapshots of Africa, but if you found yourself d..."

Thanks, Lily. I have two books that my husband has read and recommended to me. The Shadow of the Sun by Ryszard Kapuscinski and A Continent for the Taking by Howard W. French.

Lily wrote: "Rowena wrote: "That British doctor, I forgot his name, he called Nnaife a baboon for goodness sake! ..."

For a more current take on the pervasiveness and sensitivity to racial slurs across white ..."

Thank you, Lily. Americanah is one of my favourite books and my name is on the very long list for the Rankine book:)

I just ordered the Rankine book also.

Wow thanks for sharing your thoughts Lisa and Rowena!

Rowena wrote: "Emecheta mentions at least three ethnic groups, Igbo, Yoruba, and Hausa, I think she did so to show that to Africans tribe/ethnic group is more powerful than nationality..."

Yes! This is key to understanding governing issues...

Cynthia wrote: "I have two books that my husband has read and recommended to me. The Shadow of the Sun by Ryszard Kapuscinski and A Continent for the Taking by Howard W. French"

You will love The Shadow of the Sun, Cynthia! And thanks for mentioning the other recommendation from your husband--looking into this.

About your question about Ona, I liked the idea that she chose not to marry. I think Emecheta tried to show choices this way. Yes, it was partly due to her father, but by showing her upbringing, her personality and inner thoughts, and how she held herself apart from the other women, we were able to see varying aspects of womanhood. And Ona was certainly different. She felt pity for the Chief's wives and because she remained his mistress, he was unable to control her fully. Her father on the other hand...well different story. Although, when her father died, she still didn't want to marry Agbadi, did she?

Zanna wrote: "Wow thanks for sharing your thoughts Lisa and Rowena!"

:)

I'm confused by Emecheta's treatment of twins. I don't know if she was refuting by example information in books such as Achebe's. Twins seemed accepted within the Igbo tradition she portrayed.

See discussion on twins here:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307...

Don't know the reliability of this source, and it relates more to Yoruba people:

http://www.odditycentral.com/news/see...

I felt as if this was Emecheta's manifesto, spoken by Nnu Ego:

"...The men make it look as if we must aspire for children or die. That's why when I lost my first son I wanted to die, because I failed to live up to the standard expected of me by the males in my life, my father and my husband -- and now I have to include my sons. But who made the law that we should not hope in our daughters? We women subscribe to that law more than anyone. Until we change all this, it is still a man's world, which women will always help to build." p187

Cynthia wrote: " I have two books that my husband has read and recommended to me. The Shadow of the Sun by Ryszard Kapuściński and A Continent for the Taking: The Tragedy and Hope of Africa by Howard W. French...."

Thanks, Cynthia! And your comment on TSotS, Cheryl.

Cheryl wrote: "Rowena wrote: "Emecheta mentions at least three ethnic groups, Igbo, Yoruba, and Hausa, I think she did so to show that to Africans tribe/ethnic group is more powerful than nationality..."

Yes! Th..."

Aha!

Lily I agree, p186 - 187 felt like the book's philosophical conclusion

Lisa wrote: "...There is little commentary made on Oshia's marriage to a white woman but I can't imagine it sitting well with Nnaife... "

I felt the book was uneven on the themes and stories chosen to develop versus "just" to throw into the mix. Oshia's marriage felt like one of the latter -- it indicated a significant change, but we weren't taken as readers into the heart and ramifications. I felt somewhat the same about Adaku's decision to become a prostitute -- we didn't get a chance to see how difficult that must have been, only that she was able to send her daughters to Convent School. Likewise, I would have liked a paragraph or page more about Kehinde's integration into her new family -- I found myself rereading for more clues than revealed themselves -- to be dragged through such a public trial and yet to apparently embrace the young woman into their clan.

Yet, Emecheta's storytelling is obviously rich and full of many surprising details that did come across as realism, from the complicated men-women loyalties -- especially under polygamy, to the exploitation and support relationships of colonialism, to the transitions from tribal to urban and even global cultures.