Reading the Detectives discussion

Welcome to Book 28 in the Roderick Alleyn series, first published in 1974,

One of Ngaio Marsh's most popular novels, this time featuring one of her best creations -- Lucy Lockett, the crime-solving cat. When the exuberant president of Ng'ombwana proposes to dispense with the usual security arrangements on an official visit to London, his old school mate, Chief Superintendent Alleyn, is called in to persuade him otherwise. Consequently, on the night of the embassy's reception the house and grounds are stiff with police. Nevertheless, an assassin does strike, and Alleyn finds he has no shortage of help, from Special Branch to a tribal court -- and a small black cat named Lucy Lockett who out-detects them all...

Please feel free to post spoilers in this thread.

I can't recall whether this is the first time Roderick's brother, Sir George, has appeared in a book? I seem to recall a minor appearance before, but good to see him at the Embassy party. Also, Roderick's obvious dislike, and discomfort, does make him seem more human!

Brother George has been mentioned but I don't remember meeting him. I had the impression they didn't like each other. Was it is a conversation with his mother?

While this was a fun book (Lucy Lockett and her minder are wonderful!) I thought the majority of characters and the plot were less than realistic.

The mention of 'hot pants' surprised me, but we are well out of the golden age by now.

I think you are right, Sandy. He has been mentioned, but I don't think we've met him before.

Sandy wrote: "The mention of 'hot pants' surprised me, but we are well out of the golden age by now."

Hot pants are 1970, and the references to the assassinations of John and Robert Kennedy confirm the dating.

It does mean that Alleyn must be pushing 60, at the very least. He was well into his career by the start of the Second World War, more than 30 years previously.

He is also highlighted as looking extremely handsome, when placed next to Samuel Whipplestone and, I think, Fred Gibon, so he must be wearing well :)

I have just finished this - I'd read it many years ago, but this time I was listening to the audio version, so am not always able to look back and check things.

On the question of timing, I thought it said that the daughter died in 1969, six years before, though I might have misheard/misremembered this. It is odd, since it was published in 1974.

I did find the solution rather unsatisfactory, even, in modern terms, problematic. I don't usually object to the racism/classism/even sexism in books written when such isms were standard, but I felt that in this rather later book Marsh seemed to want to have her cake and eat it.

Racism is deplorable, and we learn that Alleyn was the first/only other boy to become friends with Boomer, thus showing his woke credentials. And the racist mob are awful (though it's hinted that some of them are probably not British-born, so that's OK ...) The acceptance that the murder of the Ambassador will be dealt with in the old tribal ways gives Alleyn the 'excuse' to brush Chubb's conspiracy to murder under the carpet, because, after all, plotting to murder the President because one of his subjects may have committed an awful crime against a young girl is not really criminal, and should be ignored if it means that a friend can keep such excellent servants.

Yes, I agree that Marsh got herself rather in a muddle wrapping this one up, didn't she? Especially with the Chubbs.

And what did we think of the press making something out of Troy and The Boomer?! Fake news indeed :)

I hope Mr Whipplestone gets to be another book, but there aren't many to go now. I think he was pretty brave being unconcerned about a cat leaping at his chest, it would terrify me.
I didn't mind the racism as it was part of the time it was set, but hadn't realised how derogatory people were by other people being over-weight. I thought that started more later.

That's so funny Jill. Dogs, of any kind, terrify me. Were I to meet your profile picture in real life, I'd be gone!

Yes, there was a lot of 'body shaming,' as my daughter calls it. It is a shame that Mr Whipplestone appeared so late and I suspect you are correct and we won't see him again, or only as a cameo.

I must admit to being pleasantly surprised by these, later, Ngaio Marsh mysteries. They are much better than I thought they would be.

I have now finished and must say I didn't enjoy this one very much - I loved the bits about the cat, but I didn't find the actual mystery and suspects very interesting and the book dragged a lot in the middle, I thought. One of the weakest books in the series for me.

I also agree that there were far too many shuddering comments about the couple being overweight!

Rosina wrote: "It does mean that Alleyn must be pushing 60, at the very least. He was well into his career by the start of the Second World War, more than 30 years previously...."

I wondered about this while reading but hadn't worked the dates out - thanks, Rosina.

I don't think the characters are still ageing in real time in these later books - if they were, I suspect Fox would have been long retired by now, as I think he is quite a bit older than Alleyn! I have the impression that Alleyn and Troy may magically be still in their 40s.

Judy wrote: "I don't think the characters are still ageing in real time in these later books - if they were, I suspect Fox would have been long retired by now, as I think he is quite a bit older than Alleyn! I have the impression that Alleyn and Troy may magically be still in their 40s"

Reginald Hill (author of the Pascoe and Dalziel books) accepted that his detectives had been aging far more slowly than the world around them. He compared it to an express train and a slow train: the fictional express train calls at the same stations as the real-life express train, but less time passes between stations.

That's interesting about Reginald Hill, Rosina, thank you. There seems to be a lot of variety between how authors handle this - partly depending on how long their series continue, and of course how old their heroes are at the start!

Perhaps Alleyn ages at the same rate as Bertie Wooster? Bertie never seemed to get any older, but his books were published over 60 years.

It’s something I like about the Ian Rankin books, that Rebus has aged in real time.

I enjoyed this book, but didn’t like the idea of just letting Chubb go. I could accept Chubb cutting a deal for immunity, but it seemed like he would still get off even if he didn’t cooperate. And Alleyn’s conclusion that the Sanskrit siblings were snouts seemed too big a leap on the information available

Victoria, I thought Chubb had to give evidence against the others to get off - I maybe didn't take that in properly?

I listened to the audio book, which always leaves some questions unanswered (it's difficult to wind back), but I listened to the epilogue again, and indeed, Alleyn suggests that Chubb would be let off if he gave evidence against Gomes and the Colonel and his lady wife. The Sanskrits are out of it.

It still seems like a not very satisfacory tying up off loose ends to get the desired result (Sam keeps his servants). The evidence of a conspiracy at depends on Chubb's word, as far as I can see, and his evidence is tainted by his involvement at the sharp end of the murder attempt. I doubt if it will get Gomes a long sentence, even if he is found guilty.

I haven't read this and won't be. The racism/stereotyping in another book by Marsh didn't warm me to read anymore by this author. Reasons given in non-spoiler thread.

As I said in the non-spoiler thread, the views say more about the author's prejudices I think. Time and age ins't an excuse to view people as human beings.

Maybe I misinterpreted what Alleyn was saying. I’ve already returned the book to the library, so I can’t check. My impression was that ideally they’d like Chubb to give evidence, but if he didn’t, Alleyn would still try to keep Chubb out of it. Can’t deprive Sam of his servant!

I think that without Chubb's evidence there is nothing to support conspiracy charges against any of the Fish Gang - the Colonel can be done for killing the Sanskrits, and there will be some discussion of motive, but the colonel isn't going to be able to bargain a light sentence for murder in return for evidence against Gomes amd Chubb. Mrs Colonel's actions in the Embassy don't count - I think the argument is that its foreign soil, and not the business of the UK police. The same goes for Chubb's aborted attempt to grab the assegai.

So unless Chubb gives evidence against Gomes there won't be a strong case against either of them. We don't know what decision was made. What happened to Gomes?

Going off at a tangent, what did anyone think of the cat stealing the pottery fish? I've never come across a cat acting like a magpie in this way, but I did once see a local newspaper story about a family's two pet cats who had been in through cat flaps of households across the area and stolen a whole pile of socks, which the embarrassed owners were now trying to return to all their neighbours! I can't find this story online, sadly.

https://www.thedodo.com/close-to-home...

Possibly this story

Thank you, Rosina - the story I was thinking of happened in Britain, but this is very similar! How funny - I do wonder what the attraction of socks is to some cats.

Judy wrote: "Thank you, Rosina - the story I was thinking of happened in Britain, but this is very similar! How funny - I do wonder what the attraction of socks is to some cats."

I wonder if they 'rescue' them and carry them around as substitute kittens (and whether they are clean socks or have been worn).

One of my cats used to carry socks around. I set aside a pile of unmatched ones on my bureau, eventually he would distribute them around the house, I would gather them up and the game started anew. I used clean socks but he didn't care. Doubt if substitute kittens would explain it as the males take no care of kittens.

I wouldn't think pottery would appeal - pretty unpleasant to bite down on.

Rosina, didn’t they charge him on something like having a forged passport? Because of his fake name. And they were investigating his import business & expected to get something on him with that

A forged passport, or one he wasn't entitled to, at least. But Chubb's evidence wouldn't be needed for that.

In the 'some time later' epilogue he has only just moved out of his basement flat. Perhaps he was able to keep it on while he was on remand, in custody(?), and has only now been convicted/deported. But we don't actually learn which, or why.

My favorites were Mr. Whipplestone and Lucy Lockett. I'm not a huge cat fan, but she seemed quite cute and clever, and a good companion for Sam. I could also see how stressful it could be to have to provide security for a foreign dignitary to refuses to follow protocols.
As much as I enjoy her novels, I do wish her villains were a bit more complex. They often seem to fall into the category of odious monsters who aren't made of much more than the crimes they commit. In that respect Chubb was a bit different, with a backstory as to why he was involved in the plot, which might explain why Alleyn felt compelled to extend him some mercy.

I really struggled with this book. The plot didn't seem very believable, the language was unpleasant in parts, and I felt it dragged. Although my ability to concentrate on reading has taken a hit with current events, so I don't think I can blame Marsh completely for me only giving it two stars.

I enjoyed reading this, but:

(1) It did not present a challenging detective novel; By the middle of the book it was obvious what had happened at the embassy and why, and it was equally obvious whodunnit at the piggery.

(2) I agree with others regarding Chubb at the end.

With regard to the slow rate at which so many detectives age - Poirot is another - I remember the extent to which all fiction requires the suspension of disbelief.

Nick wrote: "I enjoyed reading this, but:

(1) It did not present a challenging detective novel; By the middle of the book it was obvious what had happened at the embassy and why, and it was equally obvious who..."

I've read that Christie didn't anticipate Poirot being a long-running character (and wanted to kill him off much earlier in her career), otherwise he wouldn't have been so elderly from the beginning. But then again her other long-standing detective, Miss Marple, was also quite old, so who knows.

Another character that barely ages is Sue Grafton's Kinsey Milhone. She is much younger (mid-30s), but the entire series (25 books) takes place across only a few years time.