Discovering Russian Literature discussion

Here's the thread for the 4th short story. Holidays can be a busy time for all of us, so the threads will be open for any late-readers.

Text: The Shades, a Phantasy

I just added a better link of the story.

Ok, I'll start again. I must say, after Tolstoy's short story selecting this is a coincidence, but interesting.

I loved the story. Ctesippus learns a lot (so did I!) from the events between Socrates and Elpidias. Religion, God, philosophy... answer is in this one. Plus, I loved the ending, it's perfect.

I'll hold my thoughts until others read.

I've read it yesterday but it is a difficult English for me. I understood what was happening but I think I will reread it more slowly because I have the feeling I've missed something.
I liked a lot of quotes but I didn't write them down.

I have reread it but there are a few things I wasn't able to understand. I just add some thoughts about the story, a couple of questions and the quotes I liked.

Fear of changing our believes.
People don't want to hear the truth. But seeking the truth should be the most important achievement in life.
People's coscience can't stand the truth. They know Socrates shouldn't die but they do nothing to help him.

In chapter IV Socrates says to Elpidias: "Friend, a higher power has judged them" referred to the gods. To what is he referring with "higher power"? Is it virtue or another God?

The whole story in chapter IV, does it mean that it is useless to look for a God? So people must seek the truth but it has nothing to do with God? Or the truth is God, a Christan God, and people shouldn't believe in other gods?


Let us remember what we once said—the wise man need not fear death, he need fear nothing but falsehood.

Perchance you will find here the great law—that mortals must in darkness seek the source of life.

The question of one who seeks knowledge brings forth answers and produces conversation.

The god I seek is the god who would say to me: ‘Wanderer, give me your torch, you no longer need it, for I am the source of all light. Searcher for truth, set upon my altar the little gift of your doubt, because in me is its solution.

where there is no justice there can be no truth

There's a lot to say about this story. This is what I felt.

First of all, I don't think this specific story is reworked from one in Euthydemus however interestingly it has a “dialogue” structure, being faithful to Euthydemus.

Other than the structure, I liked how Socrates' story reflects the life and the death of many others after him. When he was sentenced to death, he assured the jury that his job was to provoke them, and that he would continue his position as gadfly to society's lazy horse as soon as he was acquitted. He was the conscience of the society and they didn't want to listen to it.

So they killed him. He was accused of failing to honor the official deities and of "corrupting the youth". However, it is commonly known throughout history that people of power seek to discredit and dehumanize people of virtue, and those who stand up for truth and justice are always persecuted.

"“Is not he a good shepherd,” he asked, “who guards his flock and watches over its increase? "

"Good Shepard" reminded me of Jesus, a nonviolent man who lived an honourable life was condemn to death by his society for similar reasons because he became his people's conscience. The same thing happened to Gandhi encountered violent opposition on his path toward nonviolence. Martin Luther King...

Socrates remains the champion of truth even after "his death" (well, it's really a dream or a vision) vs. the Olympian gods represented by the superstitious Elpidias, who is lost in the darkness. He was never enlightened while he was alive and he is lost in the darkness after death but Socrates continues to seek "the light" : The Truth.

So even Zeus with his dreadful thunderbolts cannot win a debate with the wise philosopher. As for you question "higher power" it is the truth. Even Jesus told Pilate " I am the Truth" when he asked Jesus "Are you a king?".

Is God the truth? I guess it depends on how a person defines "god". I guess majority of us want to identify god as the truth, that's may be why many of the religions believe in one god, means One Truth. I think religions have made God and/or The Truth a muddle.

Amalie wrote: "Is God the truth? I guess it depends on how a person defines "god". I guess majority of us want to identify god as the truth, that's may be why many of the religions believe in one god, means One Truth. I think religions have made God and/or The Truth a muddle. "

I was thinking about it and perhaps with "fals gods" he ment everything that distract people from seeking the real Truth. There could be a lot of examples: one is also in the story when he says that people make effigies that they later throw away. But people could also give too much importance to earthly desires forgetting to seek the Truth. For example people who believe only in money thinking that happiness comes from being rich.
For sure the story tell us that we must never stop questioning because only in this way we can reach Truth.