Classics Without All the Class discussion

105 views
January 2015- Middlemarch > The Middlemarchers: loves? Hates? Who changed your mind?

Comments Showing 1-23 of 23 (23 new)    post a comment »
dateUp arrow    newest »

message 1: by E.M. (new)

E.M. Amabebe | 25 comments The subtitle of this book is "A study of provincial life" and its second plot line features the interweaving stories of various lower- and middle-class Middlemarchers. It's a big cast -- who's your favorite? Who's most annoying? Funniest? Most evil?

George Eliot is a master of creating nuanced characters. Her heroes are usually flawed, and she can make you start to sympathize with people who have done some pretty despicable things. Did she change your mind about anyone? Did you start of hating someone and then start to empathize with them? The opposite?


message 2: by Beth (new)

Beth (k9odyssey) I just finished book 2. My current thoughts are:

Will Ladislaw: I love his energy and passion, even his hyperbolic tongue!

Dorothea: I didn't like her decision to marry Casaubon but I do sympathize with her loneliness. I'm glad she got a fix from Will though. It must have been a relief to have stimulating conversation.

Casaubon: I would like to slap some life and feeling into him. Intellect alone is so boring and unintentionally cruel when loved ones are starved for attention.


message 3: by Andria (new)

Andria | 7 comments Dorothea and Casaubon: While I am critical of them due to the way they created problems in their relationship and enabled those problems to continue without seeing the hurt of the other person, I realize that this is a part of real life as well. There are probably so many things that we just don't see in our own lives and if we only had an epic book written about our own lives, then we could use the 20/20 vision to fix our own problems.

Dorothea and Ladislaw: Oh, the romance of it all!


message 4: by E.M. (new)

E.M. Amabebe | 25 comments I have to say I'm actually feeling a lot of sympathy for Casaubon. He really is such a stick in the mud, but you kind of feel like it isn't wholly his fault.

I love this chapter opening:

"One morning, some weeks after her arrival at Lowick, Dorothea—but why always Dorothea? Was her point of view the only possible one with regard to this marriage? I protest against all our interest, all our effort at understanding being given to the young skins that look blooming in spite of trouble; for these too will get faded, and will know the older and more eating griefs which we are helping to neglect. In spite of the blinking eyes and white moles objectionable to Celia, and the want of muscular curve which was morally painful to Sir James, Mr. Casaubon had an intense consciousness within him, and was spiritually a-hungered like the rest of us...."

Also not totally loving Will at the moment. He seems kind of fickle and dilettantish.


message 5: by John (new)

John Wilson (eumenades) | 25 comments Eremi wrote: "I have to say I'm actually feeling a lot of sympathy for Casaubon.

Yes, Casaubon is intense insofar as he loves his work. As to not being his fault, one might say we are all 'not at fault' for being the products of our time. But the feminists are usually the most unforgiving about this outlook.

Like Casaubon, Will gets away with things due to his social position. (But not when he gets a job!)

Thanks for the quote. - John


message 6: by Charity (last edited Jan 28, 2015 09:52PM) (new)

Charity I would say I hate Dorothea but that word is the tiniest bit to strong, and with little love lost in thought of the other characters, this book is not to my taste.
I think that if the people that carry out these stories are too realistic then it loses most of it's charm and becomes every day life journeled and even when nicely worded is unchangable and tends to tick me off.


message 7: by John (new)

John Wilson (eumenades) | 25 comments Hi Charity,
What is it you dislike about Dorothea? How do you mean, "Tick me off?"


message 8: by Charity (last edited Jan 29, 2015 11:29PM) (new)

Charity Dorothea is a flake, ever changing from one second to the next, and I can't stand her for it.

It is a well written story, I just not much for it's content. Have you ever wanted to reach through the pages of a book and punch someone? Most of the stories I've read never have a chance of happening even remotely in real life situations. So when I read this with all the normal life bits, with no way to change any of it... Hm, I not sure if I can explain it well.

Well thanks for asking. Did you enjoy it John?


message 9: by E.M. (last edited Jan 29, 2015 11:53PM) (new)

E.M. Amabebe | 25 comments Charity wrote: "Dorothea is a flake, ever changing from one second to the next..."

Lol, yes I do know what you mean about wanting to reach into the book and punch (or maybe just shake?) someone. I felt that way about Mr. Brooke allowing Dorothea to marry Casaubon. But that's a sign of a well-written book, no? That it involves you enough with the characters that you want to interact with them?

How do you feel about Rosamund? She's certainly not a flake (and kind of Dorothea's opposite)!


message 10: by Charity (new)

Charity On one hand I feel kinda sorry for her, but she is a selfish little thing. Which do you think had the most epic failure in marriage Rosamund or Dorothea?


message 11: by John (last edited Feb 01, 2015 06:27AM) (new)

John Wilson (eumenades) | 25 comments I guess all the above belongs to 'reader theory' where each reader has her own reactions based on her own experiences of life. I find a lot of 19th century literature characters irritating, but then I 'forgive' them because they were pressured to live the values of the time. ("Its easy for us to ...")And so on.

Yes, Charity, I enjoyed the book a lot. In a way it has left a permanent mark on me. (I read it some time ago.) I very much understand failed idealism.


message 12: by E.M. (new)

E.M. Amabebe | 25 comments Charity wrote: "On one hand I feel kinda sorry for her, but she is a selfish little thing. Which do you think had the most epic failure in marriage Rosamund or Dorothea?"

I'm re-reading the book now, and I can't exactly remember how satisfied Rosamund ends up being with her marriage. If my memory is correct, it's actually Lydgate who I felt most sorry for by the end. But I may change my opinion after I finish reading this time around.

What about you? Who do you pity the most?


message 13: by Charity (new)

Charity Your spot on about Lydgate. =)


message 14: by Beth (new)

Beth (k9odyssey) I just finished. My favorite couple is Mary Garth and Fred Vincy. I love that she is a strong confident female character but full of good humor and witty comments. I like Fred because he is not unlike a lot of young men who go through an irresposible stage but come out ok and live admirable lives. Mary is his perfect match and will redirect him as needed!

I liked Middlemarch but I didnt love it. There were places where the detailed description was so beautiful, it moved me to tears and I felt like I was in the same room with the characters. There were many other places where I found that description down to minute details tedious and tiresome like I was in the same room with someone who talks too much! Her writing was brilliant and the story was so well thought out. I suppose I just don't particularly enjoy the common "who is marrying who" theme of 19th century English novels. I know Middlemarch goes beyond this but I lacked the knowledge of history to make the economics, politics and commentary on society as meaningful as I had hoped.


message 15: by E.M. (new)

E.M. Amabebe | 25 comments Awesome that you finished :) I'm nearly done... should be finished by the end of the week.

I think you're absolutely right about Mary and Fred. I think they're my favorites too. I love Mary's humor.

There's pretty cool article about how the serialization process influenced Eliot while she was writing this book if you want to check it out: http://www.uv.es/~fores/gearon.html (Serialization is kind of my pet subject these days and I wrote about it on my blog in case you're interested: http://www.eremiamabebe.com/serial-lo... -- I hope that's not too self-promotiony!) Anyhoo... I'll post my thoughts when I finish.

What about Lydgate and Rosamund? How did you end up feeling about their storyline?


message 16: by Beth (new)

Beth (k9odyssey) I thought Lydgate and Rosamund were there saddest couple. I sort of feel like the were resigned to being with each other. They both made some concessions but will they every really be happy? I felt pretty bad for Lydgate, he wasn't a gem by any means but he had the notion that Rosamund would stand by her man through thick and thin. Rosamund was very concerned with image and her own comfort. Rosamond had her family but I imagine Lydgate felt very alone. I will check out the links you provided. Thanks!


message 17: by E.M. (new)

E.M. Amabebe | 25 comments Yeah, to me Bulstrode and Rosamund were the "villains" of the novel. I ended up pitying Bulstrode a little, but Rosamund not so much. As you say, Lydgate was no gem, but it does seem like he deserved a little better. Oh well, at least there were some happy endings.


message 18: by Lisa (new)

Lisa | 2 comments Just finished today and really enjoyed Middlemarch. Mr. Bulstrode was quite despicable in my opinion, and his wife deserved better. Rosamond, while not as "evil" as Mr. Bulstrode, was certainly self-centered and incapable of thinking of anyone beyond herself. Lydgate, bless his heart, had good intentions in both his marriage and his professional life, and when both were ruined, he put his head down and kept methodically "plowing" on. I loved Mary and Fred's story, and I had the sense that their marriage would be a strong and true Union of two people who loved each other very much. Mary was willing to wait while Fred got his life in order and Fred was willing to do the hard work necessary to win Mary. And finally, I was so happy that Dorothea found happiness with Will. My admiration for her increased about a thousand fold when she intervened for Lydgate with Rosamond.


message 19: by E.M. (new)

E.M. Amabebe | 25 comments Glad you finished (and glad you liked it)! Yeah, maybe I was a little too hard on Rosamund. She is just so horrifyingly self-centered! But I guess you're right... not really evil. But then again, I felt bad for Bulstrode too. He's not a very sympathetic character, but one does pity him. I guess that's the beauty of Middlemarch -- there aren't any real villains and you feel empathy for everyone by the end, regardless of their flaws.


message 20: by E.M. (new)

E.M. Amabebe | 25 comments I really like this quote from Eliot, which I think sums up Middlemarch pretty well: "The only effect I ardently long to produce by my writings, is that those who read them should be better able to imagine and to feel the pains and the joys of those who differ from themselves in everything but the broad fact of being struggling erring human creatures."


message 21: by John (new)

John Wilson (eumenades) | 25 comments Well said, Eremi.


message 22: by Beth (new)

Beth (k9odyssey) I'm watching the BBC production now and am thoroughly enjoying it .


message 23: by Alana (new)

Alana (alanasbooks) | 208 comments My favorite was easily Fred, because he grows from being a boy, one who doesn't care for anything beyond his own happiness, and not paying attention to how his actions affect others, into a respectable man, who doesn't mind hard work and is willing to be patient to get what he most cares about. Many of us start out as he does but through time and mistakes learn to be responsible adults and parents. I think he's a great example.


back to top