The Sword and Laser discussion

Congrats to the Locus Nominees and Nebula winners! We’ve read a bunch of those but there are some great new picks to be discovered too. Everybody wins! Plus long-time Sword and Laser listener TerpKristin joins us to wrap up Magician: Apprentice.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/37891586
https://soundcloud.com/swordandlaser/...
http://swordandlaser.com/home/2020/6/...

Is this the new podcast title?

There seem to be three types of TerpTalk.

1) talking with TerpKristin

I think we'd be fine if Sword and Laser became TerpTalk, but TerpKristin would have to make room in her schedule a couple of times a month.

2) talking about University of Maryland sports

The Supremes can talk about the Terps chances for post-COVID-19 NCAA championships.

3) talking about terpenes--organic compounds found in plants, cannabis in particular

Veronica and Tom can Adobe Spark up and discuss the organic chemistry of weed.

I think we need a poll ;-)

D'oh!

I left out a terptalk

4) talking about University of Maryland Alumni topics like donating your retirement fund to the university when you die

Honestly, I don't see V & T doing this, but who knows?

Regarding the Tableau charts, I found you can click on the circle, then click on a "View Data" icon, you can see which books are from which country.

Although I knew Asimov was the author from Russia.

Tamahome wrote: "Is this the new podcast title?"

....yes?

It’s turtles all the way down.

I was listening to the podcast on my drive home from work. When you mentioned the author born in Russia, I was screaming "Isaac Asimov" at the radio. I remember the group read Foundation. He was my favorite author growing up, and you could make a career trying to read all his books. I met him once but that is another story.

Ian

I swear to God I thought it was "TerKPristin" until just now.

Veronica wrote: "Tamahome wrote: "Is this the new podcast title?"

....yes?"

I meant forever ha ha.

Terpkristin the OG Sword and Laser Member. Good job TK.

A couple of comments I want to make on the homeopathy discussion.

“It’s not like real medicine, but it still works”. The first half of that sentence was correct, the second half is categorically wrong. It is pseudoscience and doesn't work as anything but a placebo.

Also the FDA was mentioned in relation to homeopathy. I acknowledge that you mentioned it isn't FDA approved as medicine, But it should also be mentioned that no homeopathy substance is FDA approved at all and won't be approved. The FDA's own guidelines warn against taking homeopathic treatments for anything.
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information...

My own definition of "Homeopathically Good Book":

(view spoiler)[A book that superficially looks good, and for a while, seems to be enjoyable, but that, actually, has no substance and ends up not being in anyway satisfying.
You find out the author has never written before and their total writing training was a Community college course that they signed up for, but never came back to after the first free lesson.

or, another definition:

You find a really good book, like say “Dune”, and you find one really good sentence in the book. You tear this part out and feed it to a chimpanzee. You sit the chimpanzee in front of a typewriter and get it to push the keys. Then whatever ends up on the pages you publish. It will have the “essence” of Dune, making it, homeopathically, just as good.

That last definition may sound silly, but it is no sillier than how actual homeopathic "medicine" is made.
(hide spoiler)]

Rant over ;-)

Did Veronica actually say "I give a kudos"? Someone who knows it's singular? *Wayne and Garth pose* We're not worthy!

Ooh, I read it as Perpwalk ;-)

Jan wrote: "Ooh, I read it as Perpwalk ;-)"

It’s purples all the way down.

My favorite part was learning how Kristin learned about the book series. If that isn't what the internet was made for, what is.

John (Taloni) wrote: "Did Veronica actually say "I give a kudos"? Someone who knows it's singular? *Wayne and Garth pose* We're not worthy!"

So fun fact! The last company I worked for made software for companies to track employee happiness... we did this by creating a bot that would listen for words of encouragement in Slack. So for example, if I were to write (in Slack)

"Kudos @Terpkristin for doing such a great job on the show!"

The app would recognize it, catalog it, and create a dashboard of all the wins your company was having. "Kudos" was our primary keyword, but we also looked for props, wins, high fives, etc. So I learned very early on that it's a plural noun.

(if you want to learn more about the bot, it's at justdisco.com)

John (Nevets) wrote: "My favorite part was learning how Kristin learned about the book series. If that isn't what the internet was made for, what is."

Right? The online soccer game still exists (it's a simulation game) but I stopped playing...a long time ago. I get emails from them every other month or so inviting me to come back to playing. For those that might be wondering: https://www.hattrick.org/en-us/

Thanks all for the kind words. It's weird hearing myself talk. I don't know how our Supreme Sword and Supreme Laser do it. I had a lot of fun, both reading the book this month and talking to the Supremes.

Mark wrote: "The Supremes can talk about the Terps chances for post-COVID-19 NCAA championships."
MAN OH MAN. I was SO bummed there was no tournament this year. The Men's Basketball team was doing so well this season. And the Women's team is always great. (And if you want to talk about our amazing soccer and lacrosse teams...it makes up for our really really really bad football team).

I always love hearing from OG members! Sometimes I wonder where jlawrence is too.

terpkristin wrote: "MAN OH MAN. I was SO bummed there was no tournament this year."
So the university where I work *almost* won the SoCon and so missed an automatic entry into the tournament by literally one game. Some of my favorite students are on the team (they've been in my storytelling classes, or I've been their librarian for other reasons) so I almost felt vindicated on their behalf when it was cancelled. Because how awful would it have been if they had made it and then it had been cancelled.

P.S. I never talk sports, never ever. But when I know the people it's different!

These days ‘kudos’ just makes me think of Archive of Our Own...
(It’s what they call their version of the ‘like’ button)

Ruth wrote: "These days ‘kudos’ just makes me think of Archive of Our Own...
(It’s what they call their version of the ‘like’ button)"

For us 70s & 80s kids it was this: https://youtu.be/r1Sx8XkPHik

I just* got to the part where you guys were talking about how Magician: Apprentice has a little sci-fi flavor mixed in with the fantasy, just as Gideon the Ninth and The Dragonriders of Pern do, and the comment of “we go both ways, that’s how we like it” (actual quote: “that’s why we’re Sword & Laser: we like to do it all”) struck me as au courant and quite en vogue as well as quiche Lorraine.

So we’re all genre-fluid. We’re bitextual. Non-bindery.

😁



*I listen to podcasts while walking my dogs (fig. A: https://www.instagram.com/p/BpPTHhHFT...) and my neighbors are so lovely that I only get about 4 minutes of listening time before we chat and walk for the next 45 minutes.

I've seen them before but you definitely have cute doggos!

terpkristin wrote: "I've seen them before but you definitely have cute doggos!"

👍🏻 Like!

4 am elliptical workouts?! o.0

The whole bit about “I was born in 1982”, “I was born in 1979”, “I was 13” made me imagine I could hear Tassie Dave crying out in anguish.

Trike wrote: "The whole bit about “I was born in 1982”, “I was born in 1979”, “I was 13” made me imagine I could hear Tassie Dave crying out in anguish."

I was thinking the same! 😂
And also, those are the years me and my older brother were born, so it gave me sibling energy!

Terpkristin, it was lovely listening to this convo, like catching up with an old friend I've never spoken to.

And yes, Trike has adorable dogs. Quit making us jealous!

Tassie Dave wrote: "A couple of comments I want to make on the homeopathy discussion.

“It’s not like real medicine, but it still works”. The first half of that sentence was correct, the second half is categorically wrong."

I winced a little at that part, especially as some homeopathy is literally poison - the best you can say is that it isn't enough poison to do harm because the active ingredient is so diluted it is barely even there.

Ignoring the poison element though, I take "homeopathically good book" to mean a book where the good is so diluted it is barely even there, though I like Tassie Dave's description better, if only because it has monkeys.

Trike wrote: "The whole bit about “I was born in 1982”, “I was born in 1979”, “I was 13” made me imagine I could hear Tassie Dave crying out in anguish."

I was imagining you crying out grandpa ;-)

It does make me feel old when I had left school and was out in the workforce in 1979 :-?

Trike wrote: "4 am elliptical workouts?! o.0"

I'm trying to keep my schedule most similar to what it is for normal non-COVID times and I find that after work I have very little energy to workout so if it doesn't happen early, it doesn't happen. I have a daily standup at 7:30 so by the time I've finished working out and settled and showered and eaten a little something...

Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "Terpkristin, it was lovely listening to this convo, like catching up with an old friend I've never spoken to."

Aww, thank you! I had a lot of fun both reading the book with the club and with the discussion. :) :)

I updated some of the Tableau visuals so that you only need to hover to see book titles and/or authors listed out. And kudos to Pete for knowing already it was Asimov from Russia.

This is a SF and Fantasy reading group so of course Homeopathy has a place. It would be sympathetic magic if it worked.

(view spoiler)[ If homeopathy worked then I assume it would also remember all the crap that had been in it as well (hide spoiler)]

Iain wrote: "This is a SF and Fantasy reading group so of course Homeopathy has a place. It would be sympathetic magic if it worked. "

In a book sure. But in real life it's important that we don't give it (or any other "alternative" pseudoscience treatments) any legitimacy or facade of being a substitute for science based medicine.

Tassie Dave wrote: "Iain wrote: "This is a SF and Fantasy reading group so of course Homeopathy has a place. It would be sympathetic magic if it worked. "

In a book sure. But in real life it's important that we don't..."

I have some sympathy for some kinds of 'alternative' medicine. There are various herbal remedies, for example, that are long known to be helpful, such as peppermint to ease a stomach ache. I also found hypnotherapy very helpful in managing my IBS, and I think medical professionals who are too closed minded can actually cause harm, either by pushing people away by brushing off their hopes, or by not exploring other valid areas.

Honestly, in my younger days I was tempted by homeopathy and might even have spent a bit of money on it even (I can't recall, but it definitely appealed to me). I think this is why I had a strong reaction to that bit in the podcast. There are a spectrum of alternatives treatments that science does find validity in, to some degree or another, but homeopathy is not anywhere near this - it's sugar water, and the whole thing takes advantage of the vulnerable. When you're sick and nothing seems to help, I know from experience that people will try anything, and spend lots of money to do so. It is a sickening cash grab on pain.

Edited to add: and yes, even alternatives that are backed by science are not a substitute and if your doctor says you need something more, listen to her and always mention if you are taking any herbal remedies as these may conflict with other medicines.

I only mean the pseudoscientific alternative treatments that have no basis in reality and rely on a belief in "energies" or physics that don't exist. Water having a "memory" of what was once in it, for example. (Homeopathy, Reiki, Iridology, Aromatherapy etc)

Herbal remedies have a long history among humans and if it works, good. Humans have been using natural plant remedies for thousands of years. A lot of our drugs originated as naturally grown products. Hypnotherapy won't work for everyone, but it does work for a lot of people and it is safe to try.

Alternate medicines if they are used for minor problems and to ease minor symptoms, even by placebo, are ok.

I'm more worried about people using it solely for major illnesses, or carers (parents or guardians) treating their wards with alternate medicine or treatments.

I didn't catche the homeopathy reference in the episode, but I remember a fun anecdote told on a forum, by someone who was an pharmacist in I believe Paraguay. In his pharmacy they were required to actually dillute homeopathic remedies from the base ingredients when prescribed. He didn't approve, but there was nothing he could do about it.... until someone came in with a prescription for a concoction with "bald eagle" as the base ingredient. That's where he put his foot down and explained that neither did they have bald eagle (in any form) in stock, nor would he make any attempt to acquire it :D

Tassie Dave wrote: "I only mean the pseudoscientific alternative treatments that have no basis in reality and rely on a belief in "energies" or physics that don't exist. Water having a "memory" of what was once in it,..."

All I can add is that my healing crystals and magnets worn as a tiara in a sage pyramid cured me of the psychic vampires which were draining my lifeforce and it reenergized my third eye.

I mean, it’s not the mojo hand with the winning boy’s magic that will allow you to defeat the devil’s hand puppet Jack Butler down at the crossroads blues barn, but it ain’t nothin’ neither.

I think real medicine can "learn" something from the practitioners of fake medicine.

Not actually but in the sense that one could analyse the relationship between patient and practitioner more. In those alternative areas the "authority" often can spend way more time to talk to the patient and give the patient a feeling of being in the right hands than doctors who have to be more cost efficient etc - maybe this is something that could be more explored in regards to the placebo effect of alternative medicine...

I read somewhere that homeopaths spend on average way more time with a patient than general practitioners (a luxuray which people have to pay for of course!)

I agree with everything above but if anyone tries to take away my rose quartz crystals I will cut a bitch.

Signed,
Teenaged Wiccan

Veronica wrote: "I agree with everything above but if anyone tries to take away my rose quartz crystals I will cut a bitch.
Signed,
Teenaged Wiccan"

Sounds like a Who song!

It's crystals for a witch
Don't make me cut a bitch
You try to take 'em, I'll stab you in the shoulder

Teenage Wiccans, it's crystal Teenage Wiccans
They're all Wiccans!

Now this is getting good.

John (Taloni) wrote: "Veronica wrote: "I agree with everything above but if anyone tries to take away my rose quartz crystals I will cut a bitch.
Signed,
Teenaged Wiccan"

Sounds like a Who song!

It's crystals for a wi..."

Hahaha!

Veronica, I keep rose quartz and amethyst by my bed and I could pretend it's just coz they're pretty, but, ahem, look, rose quartz is for healing and amethyst is for dreams and also my birthstone and magic is real y'all!

My rational and more whimsical sides are in constant conflict. Sometimes I wish I could believe in crazy things as much as I did when I was younger. I guess this is why I'm so drawn to fantasy.

If people find comfort in alternative medicine/treatment, that's good.

As long as they don't use it for serious medical complaints and more importantly, as long as the "practitioner" of alternate treatments don't try to treat serious medical issues and get their clients to go to real doctors for that.

Jan wrote: "I read somewhere that homeopaths spend on average way more time with a patient than general practitioners (a luxuray which people have to pay for of course!)"

My doctor will spend as long as I need with me on each visit and it doesn't cost me a cent to visit.

It does help that I live in a small town (pop. 1,700) and Oz has UHC :-)

I'm reminded of something Tim Minchin (and I'm sure others before him) said, "You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work? Medicine." It's in his beat poem, Storm. Well worth a watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuX...

Tim Minchin is a great aussie comedian/actor/songwriter and he's also a major voice in the skeptical critical-thinking/pro-science/anti-pseudoscience community.

He has some great pro-science songs & comedy routines on youtube. Some are a bit NSFW ;-)

Just for the fun of it, a full-length "Staba O'Riley" aka "Teenage Wiccans."

Arty intro...Pete Townshend's guitar blends in...Keith Moon's drums hit...John Entwhistle's subtle bass...and then, Roger Daltrey!

Hang out after school
Crystals sure look cool
I get the quartz into my jewel'ry
I don't need a stone
To groove the Crone
But they sure as heck look pretty, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

Don't scry
The evil eye
It's only teenage Wiccans

Sisters say the spell
The bond we feel will swell
Chant in a circle
Until the night grows colder
The crystals make the Witch
But I will cut a bitch
You try to take 'em, I'll stab you in the shoulder

Teenage Wiccans
It's only teenage Wiccans
Teenage Wiccans
Oh yeah, teenage Wiccans
They're all Wiccans!

::: applause gif :::
👏🏼 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

You guys chatted a bit on the show on how “the chosen one” trope is kind of washed out these days. I agree, but I love a new take on it. My favorite “chosen one” story is The Dark Forest by Cixin Liu, the sequel the The Three Body Problem. I loooooooved why the protagonist is “chosen.” It follows nearly all the old rules (the protagonist has self doubt, he might not know why he’s chosen, the world is relying on him), but it makes a stunning amount a sense, it feels very plausible, and the chosen one’s endgame is mind blowing. It’s a super fresh “chosen one” story.

Well done, John (Taloni)!!

Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "John (Taloni) wrote: "Veronica wrote: "I agree with everything above but if anyone tries to take away my rose quartz crystals I will cut a bitch.
Signed,
Teenaged Wiccan"

Sounds like a Who song!

..."

Same same. MAGIC IS REAL.

John (Taloni) wrote: "Just for the fun of it, a full-length "Staba O'Riley" aka "Teenage Wiccans."

Arty intro...Pete Townshend's guitar blends in...Keith Moon's drums hit...John Entwhistle's subtle bass...and then, Rog..."

OMGGG this is so good

APPLAUSE!!!!!

(also "So we’re all genre-fluid. We’re bitextual. Non-bindery." literally made me laugh out loud. )

I don't have as many gender fluids as I used to.

NOW I'VE LAUGHED OUT LOUD TWICE