Stephen King Fans discussion

I started reading John Saul as a teenager when The Blackstone Chronicles came out. In the Horror Genre he is supposedly the third best-selling author after Stephen King and Dean Koontz. My favorite of his is The Manhattan Hunt Club. Saul has a new book coming out I think next month and while some of his books aren't that great - I still end up reading each new book when it's published. Just wondered what you thought of John Saul. Feel free to share your honest opinion :-)

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I've only read a handful of John Saul - maybe 2 or 3, and all of those were years ago at least.

The one that sticks out the most in my mind though was The God Project. That one was interesting. (Edited for spoiler.)

I think I've also read Nathaniel, and the only book of his that I own is Black Lightning, which was weird.

I liked Black Lightning until it got near the ending. For me, Saul's endings almost always seem to be really off-the-wall.

I read The God Project and Nathaniel too - they were okay - they are some of his older ones and I honestly don't remember much about them.

Another favorite Saul book is The Homing.

Don't you think it's funny that King, Koontz and Saul all started writing their books around the same time. What was going on during their childhood years? Maybe some historical perspective could add some insight.

Dustin, I can understand your frustration in smaller action groups, but one of the reasons we "Constant Readers" are such intense fans of King is not just because of what he writes, but the fact that he is a GOOD writer -- which -I can be on the line about Koontz, but never, ever John Saul. SK refers to him as an "airport read" if the bookstore had nothing else at all.

Stephen King really said that about John Saul? :-) Thanks for sharing two honest opinions - glad to hear what others - including SK, think of Saul.

There are some very devoted followers of Saul. I made a comment on Amazon about his 2008 book Faces of Fear and said "Pretty darn good for a John Saul book" or something to that effect and I got only Not Helpful votes. (GR is so much better - more interactive and no Not Helpful votes :-)

I am disappointed with a lot of Saul's novels but they are easy to read, although the characters are never really well developed - it's mainly the endings that make me mad. I ditched Robin Cook a few years ago but I've kept reading John Saul's new releases.

After 2007's The Devil's Labyrinth, I wasn't sure if I'd read another Saul book but I did and I've got a hold at the library on his new book that comes out mid October.

I have only read a few of John Saul's works. "The Right Hand of Evil" is a favorite of mine for some reason... And I NOTICE that there is always a "religious fanatic thread" through the others that I've read, like "Blackstone Chronicles,not sure of the the other 2 titles, but 1 involves outcast teenagers. The 1 of the mothers is a religious fanatic in that one as well.
However, I do have an Omnibus of his earlier work,(it's on my 2-read list, if anyone is interested) and I found the paperback 'NighShade' for a quarter, so I'll read that one as well, soon I hope. Unfortunately, IMO, 'SK' is a VERY HARD ACT 2 FOLLOW, so the pickin's are slim in the Great writing category, but I plug on in Hopes the next one will thrill me the way 'King' does :)

Dustin, the book of SK's that you should read -- right away - is "Danse Macabre" -- it's non-fiction, and even though it was written in '81, is an amazing read because he covers the entire genre of horror, even including lists of best movies, TV, books, etc. This is where I got the comment about Saul. King doesn't usually go out of his way to insult other writers (Twilight series being a notable exception ;-)!! but it really bothers him when a genre he truly loves is done poorly. One of the reasons I love this book is that it was written while he was writing "The Stand" which is arguably his best stand-alone book.

Always wrote: "I have only read a few of John Saul's works. "The Right Hand of Evil" is a favorite of mine for some reason... And I NOTICE that there is always a "religious fanatic thread" through the others that..."

I knew there had to be someone else like me in this group of over 700! Do Saul's ending bother you? I loved Blackstone Chronicles except the final installment. I read Right Hand of Evil and Nightshade. They aren't really my kind of Saul books - both are hauntings, but If you like Right Hand of Evil, you'll probably like Nightshade too. Are you gonna read House of Reckoning too?

Bondama wrote: "Dustin, the book of SK's that you should read -- right away - is "Danse Macabre" -- it's non-fiction, and even though it was written in '81, is an amazing read because he covers the entire genre of..."

Thanks for suggestion & info - I'll add it my to-read list. I watched Rosemary's Baby for the first time when my wife was pregnant with our second child - that was weird timing.

Dustin wrote: "Always wrote: "I have only read a few of John Saul's works. "The Right Hand of Evil" is a favorite of mine for some reason... And I NOTICE that there is always a "religious fanatic thread" through ..."
Yes, His Endings Are Mostly Lame... I thought The Right Hand of Evil & Blackstone Chronicles ending was the Lame as well.. And the 3rd book I read, that I can't remember the title, sort of left me wondering WTF
I won't be reading House of Reckoning. I read the summary and it didn't sound interesting to me...
I'm mostly reading the Old Stuff, hoping that there was a good story in it.
I was thinking of reading Midnight Voices, 'cause I do like some stories where characters hear voices but I read the summary & some of the comments and thought better of it. I really Like King & He is a Tuff act to follow...
P.S. I'm not a Koontz fan at all but I'm so bored w/the newer crap out there, I thought I'd give his older stuff a try.... :)

John Saul could be a good writer. I've read many of his books and enjoyed almost all of them....

Unfortunately they are very formulaic, so once you've read a few you're not likely to run into anything really new or groundbreaking in his writing. If you've read a few you can figure out how a new one will end :/

Faces of Fear (2008) was so predictable that even I figured it out! I agree with your (Lee and Always) opinions on John Saul - I just keep reading Saul - sometimes I wonder why and other times I'm pleasantly surprised.

Dustin wrote: "Faces of Fear (2008) was so predictable that even I figured it out! I agree with your (Lee and Always) opinions on John Saul - I just keep reading Saul - sometimes I wonder why and other times I'm ..."

IMO, We're just keeping the "Hope Alive" w/some of the Horror Writers out there, that 1 day they might just break from their mold & Shock Us All. I know I read a Koontz novel a short time ago, about two teenage boys and 1 just wasn't balanced.. Anyhow, it seemed to me that Koontz had actually put an effort into his writing.... Which made me smile....
Perhaps that is why we torture ourselves reading an author even though, the story will probably suck as bad as the last one :)

Always, I'm afraid to talk too much about Koontz in this thread as the group moderator, Angie, has already set up a Koontz discussion topic, but I love Koontz and would love to discuss/recommend his books - if interested in Koontz please make a post on the Dean Koontz topic or join the Dean Koontz group. :-) I got in trouble once already for mentioning Koontz in the wrong thread, but I think the story you read about two teenage boys might have been The Voice of the Night. I haven't read that one - yet.

I considered starting a John Saul group, but I don't think there would be much interest. It's great that the Stephen King group has a section for other authors. I'll probably post more in this thread when I start reading House of Reckoning in October.

House of Reckoning will be available on Tuesday October 13th.

I'm now reading House of Reckoning. It's a very short book - less than 300 pages. I'm on pg 25 right now and think it's a good story so far :-)

Dustin wrote: "I started reading John Saul as a teenager when The Blackstone Chronicles came out. In the Horror Genre he is supposedly the third best-selling author after Stephen King and Dean Koontz. My favorite..."

Dustin,
Let me know if it's any good :)

Oh don't worry, I'll be sure to post my opinions here :-) I am however currently reading 3 novels at the same time so I may be putting it aside at times to read Duma Key and Dan Brown's The Lost Symbol - I just read which ever is most interesting to me until I get to a part that is boring or slow.

Ok - I'm really into this book now and it shouldn't take me too long to read. There are 291 pages which contain 31 relatively short chapters and an epilogue. I'm currently on page 85, in Chapter nine.

I rather like the book so far but I'm expecting a typical Whack-O ending to be delivered by John Saul.

The main character in the book is Sarah Crane through a series of unfortunate events (honestly didn't mean to allude to Lemony Snicket here :-), she ends up in the foster care system with a not so great foster family. Heres a few quotes about her experiences:

"Caseworker, she thought. Where did they get that word? It sounded so...so...she wasn't quite sure what. Sort of like she wasn't a real person, but some papers in a file." - pg.30, chapter 3

"Sarah?" she heard Angie call up the stairs. "Come down and meet your new father."
My new father? Sarah silently echoed. I already have a father. A father who loves me. "Just a minute," she called back.
The man's voice-an angry voice-roared up from below. "Not in a minute, young lady! Now. Com down right now. Don't make me stand here waiting for you. Not ever."
-pages 38-39, Chapter 4

Zack was in his room, talking on his cell phone. Sarah glanced at him lounging on his bed as she passed his open door a moment later.
"Hell no, she isn't hot," she heard him saying. "She's a crip." He glanced at her, then quickly looked away again. "And an ugly one, too." He reached out with his leg, caught the the edge of the open door with his toe, and slammed it in her face. - pg.41,chapter 4

I'm now on page 163 of 291 - Chapter 16 of 31 so I just passed the half-way mark. I'm not exactly sure what year this is supposedly set - I'm guessing present day since cell phones, blackberries, texting etc play a role in the story.

Check out these passages and tell me the art factor doesn't remind you of Duma Key :-) Maybe Saul got some story element ideas from reading Stephen King:

"The drawing consumed her - she was the charcoal - she was the image. It was if she were a mere medium that allowed the image to emerge from the paper of it's own volition.
Every mark seemed preordained, as though the paper, with the image already hidden inside it, had been waiting for her to show it to the world.
Then it was finished.
There was not another stroke to be made.
The tingling began to recede, first from her fingers and hands, then her arms...." pg.99, chapter 10

and then this

"No longer thinking about what she was doing, Sarah let her hand move as if by its own volition, losing herself in the strange world she was creating.
Except she wasn't creating it - it was real; it existed somewhere, or had existed, or would exist, or-
Her hand moved faster, picking up one color after another, filling the paper with shapes and colors in bold, sure strokes, the classroom around her fading from her consciousness as her mind focused solely on the image that was quickly taking shape on the paper."
-pg.118,chapter 12

"...one more pile of P.C. crap handed down by the state, like calling the prison a 'correctional facility.' Who'd thought that one up? The same clowns who had tried to call prisons 'penitentiaries' for a few decades? And when had the same people decided to call the guards 'correctional officers'?
Who was kidding whom? This was a prison, and most of the people in it were neither penitent nor interested in being 'corrected.' They were interested in getting out, and that was pretty much all they were interested in." -pg.142,chapter 14

another peak into Sarah's awful foster family - sounds a lot like Stephen King's "Carrie" to me:

"You have no rights at all," she said, her cold eyes fixing on her. "You're here because you need to be brought up properly in a good Christian home, and that's exactly what we are going to provide. Your father is a sinner, and your mother died of sin, and you're headed in that same direction unless you straighten up and start working and praying for your own salvation. Now stop arguing and get back to your work."
Sarah's fingers tightened on the knife and she struggled to keep her fury under control. "My mother did not die of sin," she said quietly. "She died of cancer."
"Same thing," Zack said, and reached over for a handful of chopped carrots.
It was all Sarah could do to keep from driving that kitchen knife right through his hand, pinning him to the cutting board.
"Cancer is evil made manifest," Angie said, draining the pasta into the sink and amid a billowing cloud of steam. "All illness is caused by evil and sin, and if your mother had cancer, it was because she had fallen from God's grace. Hand me that bowl."
-pg.93,chapter 9, House of Reckoning

Finished House of Reckoning over the weekend - I gave it 3 stars. It was okay but could have been better. The ending actually was better than I expected - nice closure with a rather humorous epilogue. I still felt like John Saul took story elements from Stephen King's "Carrie" and "Duma Key" - kinda funny those are the only Stephen King books I've read so far - so for all I know John Saul could be taking other ideas too. Toward the end is a single car crash with fire that is strikingly similar to an episode near the end of "Carrie".

Bondama wrote: "SK refers to him as an "airport read" if the bookstore had nothing else at all."

That statement says it all, IMO. I don't loathe JS but I'm not gonna go out of my way to read him. I wouldn't dream of buying any of his books in hardback, if they're ever even released in that format. I had been known to pick up the odd JS novel in the grocery store if I have abso-effin'-lutely nothing else to read at home. However since I discovered the wonders of the internet and Amazon, that never happens.

Hi Mary. :-) Yes, Saul's books do come out in Hardcover first. If you ever want to try a John Saul book - his very best is "The Manhattan Hunt Club" - many readers admit it's very different and much better than anything else John Saul has written.

The most memorable John Saul book I've read was one of the earliest; _Suffer the Children_.
That creeped me out more than any I've ever read, by any author (with the possible exception of Ketchum).

Dustin wrote: "Hi Mary. :-) Yes, Saul's books do come out in Hardcover first. If you ever want to try a John Saul book - his very best is "The Manhattan Hunt Club" - many readers admit it's very different and muc..."

Suffer the Children

Suffer the Children keeps coming up and I don't actually think I've read that one :-) Thanks for the recommendation. I think I mixed it up with Punish the Sinners which I did listen to on audio but wasn't too impressed with. I'll add Suffer the Children to my to-read list. Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUiFPE...

Here's a you tube video with John Saul at a recent event promoting House of Reckoning. He says if he could T.P. any one's house it'd be Sarah Palin :-)

I've only read The Blackstone Chronicles, but I would like to try some others.

Did you like the Blackstone Chronicles? That was my first Introduction to Saul. Saul's very best book is The Manhattan Hunt Club - I call it "Saul's Masterpiece" because it's so unlike anything else he has written. I also like The Homing.

Really! I just bought the Manhattan Hunt Club in its hardcover first edition! How lucky am I! That's just a random pick from a bargain bookstore...
Thanks for the info Dustin...
But before I delve into Saul's books, I'll starts Sai King's first...
^_^

jzhunagev wrote: "Really! I just bought the Manhattan Hunt Club in its hardcover first edition! How lucky am I! That's just a random pick from a bargain bookstore...
Thanks for the info Dustin...
But before I delve ..."

Yeah give it a try when you get a chance :-) It deals with the homeless living underground - gaining access through the Subway and getting free electricity etc. Takes place in New York City - very interesting.

Thanks... Dustin...
The Blackstone Chronicles caught my fancy recently and I also bought that.. It's a book-club edition collected edition of the serial novel...

I had a copy of The Blackstone Chronicles in one volume myself but I had to get rid of it during a move - collecting books doesn't do well for traveling light :-) There is a good library system in Colorado where I live now so I don't buy many books these days - I really take advantage of the public library.

We don't have a good library system here in our country. But there are many bargain bookstores here. But sometimes too much books means too much clutter...
What do you know, the Blackstone Chronicle books I have might have been yours...
Creepy connection, ain't it?

For those interested in a group dedicated to John Saul, I've started one. Consider joining? I've started one thread on House of Reckoning A Novel
While probably not classified as 'literature', I do enjoy most of what he has done.
ps; the group I started is simply "John Saul"; NOT "John Saul Seris".

I'll check it out Tom :-) Thanks

Here's a link to a new John Saul Group if anyone's interested:
http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/3...

Tom wrote: "For those interested in a group dedicated to John Saul, I've started one. Consider joining? I've started one thread on House of Reckoning A Novel
While probably not c..."

I love John Saul! I have House of Reckoning to read on my shelves. I have read all of his books apart from the above and on other which I also have on my shelves. Will join you if I may!

Lynne wrote: "I love John Saul! I have House of Reckoning to read on my shelves. I have read all of his books apart from the above and on other which I also have on my shelves. Will join you if I may! "

Glad you found the new John Saul Lit group - there's even a group read set up for November.

Yes found you via your comments on the Stephen King one! Will read the one in November with you as I will have finished House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski which is actually the November read for the Sci Fi & Fantasy bookclub I go to at my local Waterstones.

The only John Saul book I have read was The Right Hand of Evil and thought it rather disappointing considering some of the reviews of his works I had seen. His writing was not impressive and the ending was pretty weak. I have never felt tempted to pick up another of his books since then.

Gatorman wrote: "The only John Saul book I have read was The Right Hand of Evil and thought it rather disappointing considering some of the reviews of his works I had seen. His writing was not impressi..."

Most of his endings are insane. If you want to give him another try sometime, I recommend The Manhattan Hunt Club - his finest achievement in my opinion.

Dustin Crazy wrote: "Gatorman wrote: "The only John Saul book I have read was The Right Hand of Evil and thought it rather disappointing considering some of the reviews of his works I had seen. His writing..."

That seems to be the consensus on what book to read. Maybe I will give it a shot.

I really REALLY want to like John Saul. I vaguely remember reading many of his books when I was younger.

But, alas, I just don't.

Has anyone read Black Lightning? I recently found it in a storage trunk. I bought it years ago and I was thinking about reading it again since I don't remember the story ... may have never read it.

Michelle wrote: "Has anyone read Black Lightning? I recently found it in a storage trunk. I bought it years ago and I was thinking about reading it again since I don't remember the story ... may have never read it."

I liked it. Listened to it on audiobook. The ending was a little wacky, which is typical for John Saul, but I remember thinking it was actually one of his better stories - I might think differently on second reading but I was impressed with it 4-5 years ago :-)