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Group Read > Eye Contact - October 2009

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message 1: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments Eye Contact by Cammie McGovern

Eye Contact By Cammie McGovern

When ? Starting October 1, 2009 we will begin our discussion of Eye Contact.

Where ? Please use this thread for the discussion.

spoiler etiquette- Remember to use spoiler warnings at the top of your post. The hardcover I read did not have chapter # or chapter names, so we won't be able to use that to help us avoid spoilers. The page # are pretty close for the HC and the PB. so maybe using a page # at the top of your post will help, or some other designation such as "first half of book" "comment for entire book to follow".

A mystery book such as this has a lot of possible spoilers, if you don't like to read any spoilers, it might be best to wait until you finish the book before reading this thread. It is a very quick read. I read it in two days, so that shouldn't be a problem.

BOOK: Eye Contact

Author: Cammie McGovern

Hardcover: 304 pages
Publisher: Viking Adult; First Edition, First Printing edition (June 1, 2006

Paperback: 320 pages
Publisher: Penguin - Paperback - Mar 13, 2007

Amazon Link:
http://www.amazon.com/Eye-Contact-Cam...

GoodReads link Eye Contact


message 2: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments Eye Contact by Cammie McGovern

Book Description:

* This description contains story elements. Only read if you don't mind some spoilers.

As children wage mock battles in the playground of Woodside Elementary School, two students, a little girl and boy, vanish into the woods behind the school. Later, only one of them, Adam, a nine-year-old boy with autism, is found alive, the sole witness to an incomprehensible killing. Barely verbal on most days, Adam has retreated into a silent world that Cara, his mother, knows only too well. With her community in shock and her son unable to help with the police investigation, Cara tries to decode the puzzling events.

When another child goes missing, Adam’s mother realizes that only she can unlock her son’s silence and interpret the changes in Adam’s behavior not only to help him through the trauma, but also to help the police catch a killer. And as she moves closer to exposing the truth, her unsettling past begins to emerge from the shadows. In her desperate desire to protect her child from real life, has she made his world a more dangerous place?

A thrilling novel of psychological suspense and a gripping tale of a crime that strikes at the core of a small community, Cammie McGovern’s heartrending novel is, above all, the powerful story of the tender and complex bond between a mother and her young son.



message 3: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments Author Biography


Cammie McGovern was awarded a creative writing fellowship at Stanford University and has received numerous prizes for her short fiction. Her stories have appeared in several magazines and journals, and she is the author of another novel, The Art of Seeing. She lives in Amherst, Massachusetts, with her husband and three children, the eldest of whom is autistic. She is one of the founders of Whole Children, a resource center that runs after-school classes and programs for children with special needs.




message 4: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments Author Q& A -

link CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS



http://www.readinggroupguides.com/gui...




message 5: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments Discussion Questions -


MAJOR SPOILERS are contained in these questions.



1. Cara is not the only parent in the book who struggles with raising a child with special needs. Morgan’s mother, Kevin’s mother, and Amelia’s mother are all in similar situations. What are the differences between the ways that they treat their children? Do you think that some of the mothers fail where others have succeeded? What do you agree and disagree with in each of their situations?

2. When Adam begins talking to the police and offering them clues, they have a difficult time understanding what he is getting at. For instance, one word he blurts out without prompting is “hair,” which confuses Detective Lincoln because, as he says, “the guy we’ve got downstairs is bald” (p. 157). However, this particular word becomes very significant later on in the investigation. How different would the search for Amelia’s murderer have been if Adam had been an average nine-year-old? What kind of obstacles would have been avoided? What new difficulties would the police have faced?

3. On page 25, when she is being interviewed by the police, Amelia’s teacher June is forced to admit that though she had planned on pairing Amelia with a partner from another classroom to help her development, she hadn’t had the chance to do so. In the aftermath of a tragedy, people surrounding the victims often have feelings of regret, wishing they had done something differently that might have prevented what happened. Have you ever been through a situation like this one? How did you cope with your feelings of guilt and regret? How does June cope with hers? Are there other characters who feel similarly about Amelia’s murder?

4. Cara and Suzette’s friendship is a continuing subplot throughout Eye Contact, and there are moments when it seems like they are the best of friends and other times when they are very distant from each other. Many of their misunderstandings revolve around Kevin and the feelings each of them has for him. What reasons do you think that each of them has for caring about Kevin? Do you think their friendship might have lasted if they had confronted Kevin when they were younger?

5. Why do you think Suzette became agoraphobic? When Cara and Suzette were children, Suzette seemed to be the one who was more confident of herself and what she wanted out of life. What could have happened to her that caused her to become a recluse? 6.
What does the title “Eye Contact” mean to you? It is mentioned a couple of times in the book in reference to Adam—one of the most important things one can do to get an autistic child’s attention is to gain eye contact—but it also serves as a larger metaphor for many of the characters and their relationships in the novel. How do you think the term applies to Teddy and June, for instance? Or Kevin and his mother?

7. When Morgan’s mother takes him to the police after he’s admitted to starting the fire, she says to him at one point, “You’re fine, Morgan, my God. A lot of people don’t have friends. I never had any friends” (p. 159). Many of the other characters in Eye Contact are similarly isolated from their peers. What does this say about the way that both children and adults in their neighborhood communicate with one another? What do you think about Morgan’s mother’s comment—is it “fine” not to have any friends?

8. When Morgan embarks on his own search for Amelia’s killer, he forms an unexpected alliance with Fiona, another misfit student at the middle school. She tells Morgan, “the day after the murder Chris sat in front of me and started saying all this stuff about how he hopes people realize how bad it can get, that people can die from bullying” (p. 209). To what extent do you think Chris was right about this? Discuss some of the terrible things children do to one another in Eye Contact and whether you’ve observed this kind of behavior in young children you know. What are some of the ways this kind of cruelty can be prevented?

9. One of the results of Adam’s autism is his appreciation for classical music and his love of opera. He has perfect pitch and impeccable hearing ability. Why do you think that a child who has such a difficult time with language and communication loves music so much? What are his musical talents compensating for? How might they be able to enrich his future life?

10. Amelia’s mother fought to have her daughter placed in a special education classroom while Cara has been fighting since Adam was young to have him integrated into a normal classroom, with the help of an aide. How do you think their respective learning environments affected Adam and Amelia? In what ways might it have had an impact on the burgeoning friendship between the two children before Amelia died?

11. When Cara is thinking back over her relationship with Kevin, she admits to herself that “he’s kept certain secrets for reasons she can’t understand . . . [but:] so has she. If an impartial outsider looked at their lives, weighed the sins of omission, it’s likely that Cara would be found at far graver fault” (p. 210). What does the author mean by this? Do you agree with this statement? What are the sins of omission that Cara has committed, against Kevin, against her parents, against Suzette, against herself?

12. Although Adam is not a first-person narrator in Eye Contact, there are numerous sections that are written from his point of view. What did you learn about autistic children and how they see the world after reading this book? What preconceptions you have about childhood and communication are challenged by Adam’s story?

13. Morgan is convinced that if he finds out who killed Amelia, he will be forgiven for the crime he committed. Many of the characters in Eye Contact are in search of a similar kind of redemption. Do you think any of them are capable of achieving it? In light of this theme of redemption, how do you feel about where the different characters end up at the book’s conclusion?






Donna in Southern Maryland (cedarville922) | 207 comments Picked up my copy at the Library today.

Donna in Southern Maryland


message 7: by madrano (new)

madrano | 25210 comments Not only does my local library have the book but it's a Large Print version! Looking forward to the eye-rest after cramming "The Prince" (one of those Great Books with tiny print, 2 columns per page) & Les Miserables into my reading, the old eyes will welcome the rest! ;-)

deborah


message 8: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments Deb, I had planned on reading The Prince with you. But when I got my copy, I realized there was no way I could read the tiny print.

Today on Book TV Laura Bush was on and she mentioned she loves the Kindle because she can adjust the font size. And when traveling, she can bring a bunch of books on her Kindle.

I am sure I will be the last Kindle holdout on the planet, the Luddite that I am. I still love the feel of a book. I like the way they look in a room. They are like old friends. :) And I can spend hours in a library or bookstore just browsing shelves.


message 9: by NK15 (new)

NK15 | 183 comments Oh I'll be a Kindle holdout too. Just don't think I have the need for one.

kate


message 10: by Bobbie (new)

Bobbie (bobbie572002) | 957 comments Another Kindle holdout here. Can't have a used book sale with a Kindle now can you? LOL

Barbara


message 11: by madrano (new)

madrano | 25210 comments LOL, Barbara, good point! I'll be a holdout, too. Heck, i don't have any of those new toys. I'm sure an iPod would make my walking easier but i can barely figure out the DVR, so why would i add another complication to my life? Someday soon for the iPod or similar, though. I guess i'm not a committed Luddite!

deborah


message 12: by Bobbie (new)

Bobbie (bobbie572002) | 957 comments I do have an iPod -- the smaller one the shuffle. Even more than walking I love it because when you are going on a trip you don't have to think about tapes, the old tape player, etc. I guess if you travel by car you don't care, but I am generally on a plane, train, or bus and it is just great to have the iPod.
Also quite frankly my neighborhood has gotten so noisy that if I can go in my backyard or on my porch with a book and my iPod I am a happy camper. And by the way I think all the things that go with the TV that have to be time set and such are a lot harder than the iPod.

Barbara


message 13: by madrano (new)

madrano | 25210 comments Thanks for the info, Barbara, particularly about getting one set up.

deborah


message 14: by Donna in Southern Maryland (last edited Sep 28, 2009 10:57AM) (new)

Donna in Southern Maryland (cedarville922) | 207 comments Deborah,

I agree with Barbara; the Shuffle is VERY easy. DH has a regular Ipod. He has about 5,500 songs on his music list in itunes --mostly from CDs we owned and some we copied from the Library.

I have a separate 'file' on the itunes ap that's called "Donna's Music." I have about 850 different songs in that. Of course I put my favorite songs in that. When I have spare time, I go through the other songs and listen to maybe 20 seconds. I can usually tell with that whether I like the song or not; and I may not know the song by the title. I can't tell you how many times I've said 'Oh, THAT'S what the song is called!'

Every time I 'sync' the Shuffle, about 190 to 200 songs go on from that file. You can play in order --according to the album -- or random, which I usually do. It's light weight, and about the size of a 50 cent piece.

Trust me, Deborah, if I can do it, YOU can!

Donna in Southern Maryland
Just starting Eye Contact


message 15: by madrano (new)

madrano | 25210 comments Wow! The size of a 50 cent piece? I'm amazed! Thanks for the info, Donna.

deb




message 16: by NK15 (new)

NK15 | 183 comments Is anyone reading Eye Contact yet?

Kate


Donna in Southern Maryland (cedarville922) | 207 comments I'm on page 50, starting a new chapter. Sad so far.

Donna in Southern Maryland


message 18: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments Yes, I read it last week, Kate.


message 19: by Bobbie (new)

Bobbie (bobbie572002) | 957 comments I'm almost finished.
About 60 pages to go.

Barbara


message 20: by Kim (new)

Kim (kparksrec) | 28 comments I finished Joe College last night and plan to start Eye Contact today :)


message 21: by madrano (new)

madrano | 25210 comments I read this mystery over the weekend & am ready to discuss but will wait until others complete it. In an aside i must say it is frustrating when an author has no chapters. The page numbers don't seem to help since mine is a large print edition.

deborah


message 22: by Bobbie (new)

Bobbie (bobbie572002) | 957 comments I agree about the chapters or lack thereof. And the number of pages that Goodreads says that the book has is not what my book has.

Barbara


message 23: by NK15 (new)

NK15 | 183 comments I'm more than halfway through the book, and enjoying it. I'm ready to discuss when you all are.

kate


message 24: by Donna in Southern Maryland (last edited Oct 05, 2009 02:16PM) (new)

Donna in Southern Maryland (cedarville922) | 207 comments I am not fond of authors who skip back and forth between times and voices of characters, but I will reserve judgement and hope that this makes the story better. I am interested to find out more about Autism. I just heard on tv last night that the numbers have gone up -- from 1 child out of 150 to 1 child out of 100. What in the world causes this? Will we ever know for sure?

Am I the only one who thinks it's easier to discuss nonfiction? :o)

Donna in Southern Maryland


message 25: by madrano (last edited Oct 05, 2009 02:29PM) (new)

madrano | 25210 comments Donna, i think it's easier, too. I have qualms about those increase in numbers because it's more that the perimeters have been expanded to include more people. Same with diseases, btw, which is probably fair for prevention & early intervention (in all cases, not just diseases) but i think it over-alarms, if you will, us into thinking the world is changing when, in fact, it's our perception of "problems."

deborah, who will state the above is her own opinion, to (with?) which everyone is entitled to differ


message 26: by NK15 (new)

NK15 | 183 comments Donna said I am not fond of authors who skip back and forth between times and voices of characters, but I will reserve judgement and hope that this makes the story better. I am interested to find out more about Autism. I just heard on tv last night that the numbers have gone up -- from 1 child out of 150 to 1 child out of 100. What in the world causes this? Will we ever know for sure?

I'm not crazy about the jumping around between voices and characters either, but I've gotten used to it in this book and it is actually making me more eager to get to the book. She'll change characters just when I'm totally involved so then I have to keep reading in order to get back to the topic that had me so interested.

As for autism, I'm interested in the subject too. We have an autism unit in our school, with a teacher with two years experience, but you'd think she'd been at it for a lifetime. She truly has a gift. There are five children in the unit, and a wide representation of the spectrum of autism. Having those children a daily part of school life has been a wonderful way to teach understanding and compassion to everyone.

Kate



message 27: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments Donna message #24: I just heard on tv last night that the numbers have gone up -- from 1 child out of 150 to 1 child out of 100. What in the world causes this? Will we ever know for sure?
=======================
I heard that report, too.

Here is the news report Donna from MD was referring to. Many news outlets reported it. Here is what the NY Times said.


NY Times
October 6, 2009
Vital Signs
Childhood: Autism Diagnoses Rising, U.S. Reports
By BENEDICT CAREY

More than 1 in 100 American children and teenagers may have autism, Asperger’s syndrome or a related developmental problem, although such diagnoses often do not hold up, according to a government report released on Monday.

The estimate, based on a telephone survey of some 78,000 households and published in the journal Pediatrics, is the highest yet of the prevalence of so-called autism spectrum disorders, which include everything from severe autism to milder social difficulties to “pervasive developmental disorder,” a description given to many troubled children.

Nearly 40 percent of the children in the study who were given such a diagnosis grew out of it or no longer qualified for it, the study found. The estimate is based on those whose parents said they were currently struggling with one of the disorders.

Prevalence estimates for autism-related disorders have increased so quickly over the past decade — to 1 in 150 in 2007, from 1 in 300 in the early 2000s — that researchers have debated whether the disorder is in fact becoming more common or is simply diagnosed more often.

The new survey is not likely to settle the question. “This is an excellent study, but what it looks at is the prevalence of the diagnosis, not the disorder,” said Dr. Susan L. Hyman, a pediatrician at Golisano Children’s Hospital in Rochester. “The next step scientifically is to see whether those diagnoses are being made accurately.”

----------------------------------------

I would note a few things and just playing devils advocate here.

- the diagnosis is preliminary. The article states it often later changed. So these numbers are malleable.

- The was based on a telephone survey households; not doctors/scientests. I don't know how scientifically accurate that is.

- The definition of autism has been expanded. So the numbers would have to go up. As noted in the article, maybe the diagnosis of the disease has grown, not the # of cases.

- doctors/parents/teachers are more aware of autism than in the past. So that may cause an increase in diagnosed cases.

- 40% change in diagnosis. Either due to misdiagnosis or "grew out of it". I would note the article said this was based on what parents said; not doctors/scientists. I am not saying the parents are wrong. But I don't know if that qualifies as a rigorous scientific study.

Does anyone know who sponsored this study? I ask because sometimes the sponser of a study might have a vested interest in a certain outcome. For example, getting more research dollars.


message 28: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments Donna in message #24 said: I am not fond of authors who skip back and forth between times and voices of characters, but I will reserve judgement and hope that this makes the story better
===================================

If you read the author Q&A that I posted, (I would do this only after you read the entire book) you will see that she repeatedly changed the "mystery" part of the book. Even the books focus was changed.

I felt the authors inexperience writing a fiction mystery book showed. The "mystery" part of the book I thought was a sloppy, convoluted, unfocused, amateurish mess that did not work at all.

The subject matter, autism, is interesting. In my opinion, if you want to read a fiction book with this topic, The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark Haddon, is the way to go. I gave that book a top rating. If you want to read a non fiction account of this topic, than I would go with Temple Grandins books.

Perhaps to aid discussion, and get things started, we can use "SPOILER ALERT" at the top of the posts that are discussing the "mystery" angle of the book. And just post normally when discussing the topic of autism or any of the other ailments discussed in the book. Does that work for everyone ?



message 29: by Bobbie (new)

Bobbie (bobbie572002) | 957 comments When my boys were small we had an autistic boy whose family attended our church. He had been verbal and then had stopped speaking and was totally withdrawn not interacting. This is what I think of when I think autism -- not some relative developmental disability.
So clearly the definition has broadened. IMO I don't think that helps.

There is a young man who I know now. His mom says he is autistic and he attends events that are sponsored by some org up here that works on these issues. He is alovely guy. Certainly holds conversations, shows emotion, drives a car, holds a job. Yes, a low level job. Probably in another era we would have just said that he has a low IQ. His mom says that he is unable to develop relationships. I would never have called him autistic.

Barbara


message 30: by Bobbie (new)

Bobbie (bobbie572002) | 957 comments Back to the book -- I found the material that related to the different children and their capabilities and how the various parents and teachers reacted to them interesting to read. IMO The resolution of the story was beyond lame.

Barbara


message 31: by madrano (last edited Oct 06, 2009 10:56AM) (new)

madrano | 25210 comments SPOILER ALERT BUT ALSO ABOUT AUTISM


SPOILERS, BUT NOT TO THE MYSTERY


SPOILERS BELOW


I found it interesting that Amelia was on the way to being considered almost "cured." (Sorry, i can't remember the term her mom used.) And am i alone in believing that Morgan probably also had been considered autistic his elementary years? Did i misinterpret what was written? In fact, it seemed to me that several of the kids sounded as though they had characteristics which might be autistic. Maybe this was why that group of middle schoolers met?

I'd like to read what others thought because i can't tell if she felt the reader should understant that or if the reader should begin wondering what qualifies or if she's just a poor author. Heck, i even found myself thinking Cara displayed obsessive/autistic characteristics in her life with Adam. However, i felt that was part of the conclusion for her story in the book.

deborah


message 32: by Bobbie (new)

Bobbie (bobbie572002) | 957 comments
SPOILERS






I agree with you deborah. Now that the definition of autism seems to have broadened all the children could be considered autistic. The kids who met had issues of being able to communicate clearly with one another and they didn't have friends -- not able to make relationships. Morgan's mom says to him that she didn't have friends when she was in school either and he shouldn't worry about it.

I think it is a question for all of us as to what qualifies as autistic. Greater minds than ours seem to be wrestling with that question.

If Amelia was in any way "cured" -- it was that she seemed to be able to speak relatively clearly and she was able to reach out to somebody else.

Barbara


message 33: by Alias Reader (last edited Oct 06, 2009 02:27PM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments Barbara: I think it is a question for all of us as to what qualifies as autistic. Greater minds than ours seem to be wrestling with that question
----------------------------------------


As you are probably aware, Autism is a spectrum disorder. I think that is why there is confusion.

You have extreme cases where the person is totally incapable of communicating and seems to live in their own world. One book I read, the girl preferred her own world, and just communicated with the outside world so people would leave her alone. I read the book many years ago. I can't recall the title. I think it had the word Russian in it. Russian journal? I must be wrong, I am not getting a hit on Amazon for that.

I saw a show on TV that in one case the person was thought to have a very low IQ, but if I am remember correctly, when she was hooked up somehow to a computer she could communicate very well. She was intelligent but locked in a body that wouldn't let her communicate. It must have been so frustrating for her.

At the other end of the spectrum you have high functioning aspergers.

Wiki explains it much better than I did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_s...

I know someone who was diagnosed as an adult with aspergers. To be honest I never saw it. His phone skills/ verbal skills were way above average. I heard him talking on the phone to a client one day, and I wished I had his skills ! He holds a well paying job and graduated from college. So I guess it is something that is not always apparent to the average person.

I read an article that said some parents want their child labeled with a learning disability. That way they can get extra time for tests and special placement in colleges. It sounds crazy. But in this competitive world, I guess anything is possible. Maybe that accounts for a part of the increase in diagnosed cases.

I have read that some are not happy with Jenny McCarthy implying that she cured her son of autism. I think she did it with diet. I didn't read her book but did see her on TV. Anyone read her book ?

As you say, Barbara, it's a topic that even the people who are involved personally with, don't seem to agree.

There is a show called Autism 6x. It's not a series, more a documentary. It is about a family that had 6 children with the disorder. I think it is shown on Discovery channel every now and then. I think I saw it listed last week. If you happen to notice it I would recommend it.

One aspect of the book that I thought came across well, was the parent/child relationship and how the disease became the all encompassing focus of the mom's life.

Well, enough rambling from me.


message 34: by madrano (new)

madrano | 25210 comments KINDA SPOILERS, AGAIN, BUT NOT ABOUT THE MYSTERY ITSELF

KINDA SPOILERS BELOW


Alias Reader wrote: "I have read that some are not happy with Jenny McCarthy implying that she cured her son of autism. I think she did it with diet. I didn't read her book but did see her on TV. Anyone read her book ?


Diet was one of the factors Amelia's mother mentioned, as well. Back when my kids were little diet was used to "cure" some ADD & other "ills". Sorry, i cannot remember more, only that we had friends who radically changed their daughters diet but not that of themselves or their son.

My point being that diet has been proven to be significant contributors to health, be it postive or negative. For me, it's one of the first things i'd try. However, i wouldn't go around telling people they could "cure" their child they way mine was, particularly not with something like autism.

Alias Reader wrote: "One aspect of the book that I thought came across well, was the parent/child relationship and how the disease became the all encompassing focus of the mom's life.

I agree! It has truly made me recount my good fortune in having kids who were challenged in the ways i had been at their age. I understand how easy it would be to immerse oneself in working toward better understanding and improvements with a child needing special education and health assistance.

deborah




message 35: by Bobbie (new)

Bobbie (bobbie572002) | 957 comments Alias Reader wrote: "One aspect of the book that I thought came across well, was the parent/child relationship and how the disease became the all encompassing focus of the mom's life.

I agree! It has truly made me recount my good fortune in having kids who were challenged in the ways i had been at their age. I understand how easy it would be to immerse oneself in working toward better understanding and improvements with a child needing special education and health assistance


And I agree as well.

I think also I was trying to say that 45 years ago -- which is the time period I was referring to as in a boy with autism being in my son's class in Sunday School -- we knew less. And it was not identified as a spectrum. If you said someone was autistic they pretty well did not communicate and didn't interact with others -- none of these other gradations.

Barbara



message 36: by madrano (new)

madrano | 25210 comments I don't remember hearing about autism until an episode of "Marcus Welby, M.D.". A 3 or so year old boy could only repeat the last thing he heard, so they'd say, "What's your name? Pauly" And he'd repeat it all, rather than just say his name. It was a fascinating topic to us back then because it was new & we had no children yet.

Curiously, it was another decade before we heard anything about it again. And that because we were involved in the "Gifted Program" at school, which included all special ed issues. We knew no identified-as-autistic children while our kids were in elem. & middle schools. All that information has been since the mid '90s, at least as far as we could tell.

deborah


message 37: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments



Major Spoiler for mystery part of book

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Good Grief, there were more people in the woods than Grand Central Station !

I felt so played by the author. She trots out one red herring and suspect after another. I had trouble remembering who the heck everyone was and what their particular dysfunction was. The adults seemed to have more problems than the poor kids. The killer is this one, turn the page, no..it's that one...turn the page...no...it's that one. My head was spinning. By the end I didn't care who the heck did it.

The ending was a huge disappointment. I hate when the conclusion comes out of left field. And to make matter worse, it made no sense. If an author is going to go the easy way out, at least make it realistic. The motive made no sense.


The author kept alluding to something terrible Cara did when she was a teen. This part read like a very bad soap opera. Fighting over a boy. Getting pregnant. Don't tell the father. A split between best friends. Cara not responding to Kevin's advance is the earth shattering thing? Give me a break. I kept thinking these dysfunctional people need to grow up and get over themselves. It's been a decade already that they are out of high school.

Would a teacher really think all autistic children are like Rain Man ? Come on. (page 8 )

A minor, but annoying thing an editor should have changed. The author throws the acronym AEP out there without explanation. Two times by my count. Once is on page 8 as in "an IEP meeting". I can't find the page for the second time. I have the hc edition. Maybe this was corrected in the pb.

I had to google it to find what it stood for:

(In the United States an Individualized Education Plan, commonly referred to as an IEP, is mandated by the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act )



message 38: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments deborah: don't remember hearing about autism until an episode of "Marcus Welby, M.D.". A 3 or so year old boy could only repeat the last thing he heard, so they'd say, "What's your name? Pauly" And he'd repeat it all, rather than just say his name. It was a fascinating topic to us back then because it was new & we had no children yet.

============================
That is called echolalia.

From Wiki:

Echolalia is the repetition of vocalizations made by another person. Echolalia can be present in autism, Tourette syndrome, aphasia, Rubinstein-Taybi syndrome, developmental disability, schizophrenia, Asperger syndrome, Alzheimer's Disease and, occasionally, other forms of psychopathology. It is also frequently found in blind or visually impaired children, although most will outgrow this behavior. When done involuntarily, echolalia may be considered a tic.

The word "echolalia" is derived from the Greek ἠχώ meaning "echo" or "to repeat",[1:] and λαλιά (laliá) meaning "babbling, meaningless talk"[2:] (of onomatopoeic origin from the verb λαλέω (laléo) meaning "to talk").

Immediate echolalia causes the immediate repetition of a word or phrase. Some autistic people and people with Asperger syndrome may use repetition as a method of allowing themselves more time to process language.

A typical pediatric presentation of echolalia might be: a child is asked, "Do you want dinner?" the child echoes back "Do you want dinner?" followed by a pause and then a response, "Yes. What's for dinner?"[3:]

In delayed echolalia, a phrase is repeated after a delay, such as a person with autism who repeats TV commercials, favorite movie scripts, or parental reprimands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echolalia



message 39: by madrano (new)

madrano | 25210 comments Echolalia was mentioned in this book, too. It's the first i knew that there was a word for it.
deborah


message 40: by madrano (new)

madrano | 25210 comments Alias Reader wrote: "



Major Spoiler for mystery part of book
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Good Grief, there were more people in the woods than Grand Central Station !

I felt so played by the author...."



I'LL JUST ADD ANOTHER SPOILERS WARNING HERE, FOR THE MYSTERY ITSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree, Alias, from top to bottom about your assessment of the flaws in this book. I knew IEP because i've had kids in school but it took several years before i automatically remembered what it meant. And a teacher expecting Rain Man surprised me.

As for the resolution of whodunit--what? Ok, i know that in Real Life a murderer can come out of the blue & barely fit in the picture when police investigate. However, why bother giving us red herrings if there is no Real Herring? (Huh? You KNOW what i mean, i think.)

I think the author meant to portray the adults in light of what they considered major when they were teenagers. However, the fact that they still seemed to need to resolve the issues, still thought about them, yet hadn't addressed them was odd. Otoh, i can understand Cara's lack of resolution since her life changed with her son's birth, more so after his diagnosis.

Re. the woods being so busy. What amazed me was that we were told (halfway through, i think) that it was busier than one might think, thanks to the middle schoolers going out there to play that game. However, they didn't really factor into the busy-ness which was part of the mystery. In fact, if they were really there, i suspect this murder would have been solved much faster!

Another curiosity is that it appeared no men were directly dealing with the children who had autism. Amelia's father was in the household but we never even "met" him, learning only that he had a problem with the way Amelia's education was being handled. An uncle/detective is present but the child isn't.

My bottom line is that i hope she isn't hoping to develop a mystery series using these characters. If so, she sure needs to tighten things up more!

deborah


Donna in Southern Maryland (cedarville922) | 207 comments This thing has my head swimming! One question that has popped into mind is to wonder if all this time spent on Kevin --the handicapped boy fron Cara's youth will turn out to be Adam's father, since the father is described as 'not being in the picture.?'

Donna


message 42: by Bobbie (new)

Bobbie (bobbie572002) | 957 comments I totally agree with Alias and deborah. I really have nothing to add.

Barbara


message 43: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments Major spoilers from the Q&A I posted at the top of this thread


Major SPOILERs to follow






I think explains why the mystery part of the book was such a mess.


Q: It isn’t clear who Amelia’s murderer is until very late in the novel. Did you know who the killer was before you started writing? How did you decide who it would be and why did you choose that person?

CM: I didn’t know how the book would end for a long time and even changed the ending (and the killer) a few times after the book had sold. It’s a tricky business because the ending has to both surprise the reader and have a feeling of inevitability to it. I switched it around so many times I think I lost track of what effect I was trying to achieve. I finally settled on one and at the last minute before it went to the printer in the UK (where the book was being released first), and my brother, who’s a big mystery fan, read it and said he liked the first version better for the three reasons he proceeded to list like the true mathematician that he is. I remember my heart sinking when I read his e-mail because I instantly knew he was right and I had something like twenty-four hours to change everything back.




CM: I initially wrote most of the story from Cara’s point of view, when I first envisioned the book as a story centered around a terrifying scenario that most parents of autistic kids would relate to: What if, after years of laborious therapy with some success gaining language, play skills, etc., your child witnessed some traumatic event and lost everything in a single day? My first draft was much less about who did the crime and more about the history of Adam’s therapy, where he’d been and how far he’d come. My husband read that draft and thought it seemed too much like a memoir with a story laid over it. He encouraged me to let the story take over and not be afraid to make it a murder mystery, with different people acting as detectives, pooling their knowledge. At the same time, I had begun sitting in on a few different social skills groups with middle-school-aged boys, and I so fell in love with some of them and the way they talked about their struggles that I wanted to introduce a character who would act as a kind of apprentice detective with Cara but who would ultimately also help her understand Adam a little bit better.


CM: I’ve always liked writing plot-driven stories, but was a little intimidated about saying I wanted to write a murder mystery. My background is an MFA at the University of Michigan and a Stegner Fellowship at Stanford and not too many people there are teaching or celebrating the joys of genre fiction. Not that anyone was putting it down; it just wasn’t what we were reading or talking about or there to do.





message 44: by Bobbie (new)

Bobbie (bobbie572002) | 957 comments Thanks for posting the Q and A. Interesting.

Barbara


message 45: by madrano (new)

madrano | 25210 comments Alias, thanks for the interview bits with CM, it explains some things.

deborah


message 46: by Alias Reader (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments You're welcome. :)

I think the author should have went with what she knew best. Maybe because she wasn't so confident, she was swayed by her brother and husband. Her switching all the elements of the novel, I think, caused the mess with the fiction angle of the book.


The full Q&A can be read at the top of the thread.
-post #4

There are also Reader's Guide questions, that are also posted at the top of the thread.
Post #5



message 47: by Alias Reader (last edited Oct 08, 2009 09:56AM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments


SPOILER

8. When Morgan embarks on his own search for Amelia’s killer, he forms an unexpected alliance with Fiona, another misfit student at the middle school. She tells Morgan, “the day after the murder Chris sat in front of me and started saying all this stuff about how he hopes people realize how bad it can get, that people can die from bullying” (p. 209). To what extent do you think Chris was right about this? Discuss some of the terrible things children do to one another in Eye Contact and whether you’ve observed this kind of behavior in young children you know. What are some of the ways this kind of cruelty can be prevented?
-----------------------

The topic of bullying made me think of Columbine.

What can be done about it? I think the school has to be very alert to this. Maybe not favor certain groups (athletes) over others. Some feel this may have been the case at Columbine.



message 48: by Alias Reader (last edited Oct 08, 2009 09:57AM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments


SPOILER


9. One of the results of Adam’s autism is his appreciation for classical music and his love of opera. He has perfect pitch and impeccable hearing ability. Why do you think that a child who has such a difficult time with language and communication loves music so much? What are his musical talents compensating for? How might they be able to enrich his future life?

===============================

I think the opera, hearing ability, and perfect pitch were specific to the character of Adam. So I don't think we can extrapolate much from that.

I may be wrong, I don't know much about this topic. However, I think it is more common for the autistic person to shy away from loud complicated sounds. I've read the issue is too much stimulus and information coming in. There is no filter. They can't just focus on one thing, say the sound of the music and tune out other sounds and stimulus in the environment. It just becomes a wall of noise.

As for music, it is used as therapy in hospitals. I know at Sloan Kettering cancer hospital, they have people come to your room and play the guitar and sing. They also use other arts and nature (a gardening class, and sitting in a outdoor garden ) to help heal.

As to the question of what the music is compensating for, I don't know that it is. Sometimes autistic children excel in special ways. The Rain Man movie comes to mind with math. Though I don't think it is very common. --- wait I'll google it ----- According to this link and a quick google search only 10% of autistic people have some savant like abilities.

http://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.or...



message 49: by Alias Reader (last edited Oct 08, 2009 09:58AM) (new)

Alias Reader (aliasreader) | 30964 comments


Spoiler


10. Amelia’s mother fought to have her daughter placed in a special education classroom while Cara has been fighting since Adam was young to have him integrated into a normal classroom, with the help of an aide. How do you think their respective learning environments affected Adam and Amelia? In what ways might it have had an impact on the burgeoning friendship between the two children before Amelia died?
-------------------
This is a interesting question. Maybe some of the teachers here can address it. I can see valid points on all sides of this issue. It's too bad Jan is so busy, as this is her field. I don't know if there are any studies that have been done. If anyone knows and can link to any, that would be great.





message 50: by madrano (new)

madrano | 25210 comments Alias Reader wrote: "


SPOILER

The topic of bullying made me think of Columbine.

What can be done about it? I think the school has to be very alert to this. Maybe not favor certain groups (athletes) over others. Some feel this may have been the case at Columbine."


When my daughter was 4 & we'd just moved to a town in South Dakota (3rd largest), i joined a parent-teacher task force about education. The issue of bullying came up at the first meeting because a child from the Lakota Sioux tribe had been bullied & the parents wanted action taken.

What surprised me is that everyone there who was either an educator or a parent with older children saw bullying as something which could not be stopped. Yes, they all agreed those who bully should be disciplined but they couldn't see a way to prevent it, "Kids will be kids." And in a way, on one level, i now understand what they meant. We can educate about the negative impact of bullying but kids notice differences & make fun.

Otoh, parents can provide leadership at home. First, by making the point that we don't make fun of others. Secondly by not doing so themselves. Kids will likely imitate what they see at home, so those are good steps. Still, you can't control who your kid hangs out with at school. And then there is peer pressure to join in the bullying. Yuk.

deborah




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