Reading the 20th Century discussion

The Midnight Bell is enjoying some lively football chat (the soccer variety to our US members) mainly focussed on the English Football League and the English Premier League.

Here's a thread dedicated to football chat, so, from now on, please post here and not over at The Midnight Bell.

Michael wrote: "3rd spot for Man Utd real possibility. And still in two cup competitions. And people still don't rate Sokjaer!"


OGS is a vibes man

An anti-Mourinho if you will

Great for dressing room harmony and for letting players express themselves. He's not a tactician though - and so cannot take them to the next level.

The signing of Bruno Fernandes (doubt OGS had much to do with it) was a masterstroke

Then again, consider that with the money Man Utd have spent, and the size of their wage bill, they should be challenging for the league every season.

If Man Utd get the next appointment right, post OGS, they'll be back up there again. The last few appointments have been woeful. If I was them I'd be going all out to appoint Mauricio Pochettino.

Spurs sacking Poch, and then appointing Mourinho, is still my comedy highlight of this season. Only Tottenham would sack the best manager they've had in 50 years and then exacerbate it by appointing the mood hoover Mourinho.

Ian wrote:


"Yep, Spurs seem to have just gone backwards this season. From getting to the Champs League final, and playing well in it, they appear to have just continued to underachieve and repeatedly failed to impress. Funny enough, I usually like watching Spurs play football, but not this season, and today I fully expect Arsenal to get all 3 points. Why on earth did they get rid of Poch and then appoint Jose? That is just beyond me and appears to have been a big factor regarding their poor form throughout the year.

As much as it pains me to say it both Manchester clubs seem to have hit good form Recently but both defences can still creak when put under pressure. Been really good since the restart.

Everton - just what is going on? Fans not happy and are quite rightly demanding answers to their questions. Good manager but is he developing anything meaningful for next season. Got my doubts.

Burnley goalie was brilliant yesterday....say no more."

All good points Ian

I hope you're right about today's North London Derby. I used to go and see Arsenal very regularly when I lived near their ground in London. As you know, these derby games are very unpredictable and form goes out of the window. I'm sure Mourinho will be hatching a fiendish plan to try and stop the plucky Arsenal lads from playing. Kane has a habit of scoring against Arsenal too.

Expecting 1-1

Hoping for 0-3

I was really looking forward to the Euro's this summer. Such a shame they were cancelled.

So, combining books and football? I know Philip Kerr had some football thrillers, but one on my TBR list is The 1966 World Cup Final: Minute by Minute

Oh, the Aston Villa game is making me somewhat nervous...

Michael, I've moved your reply over here:


"Nigeyb, to be honest neither OGS and Potticino have proven themselves in the Premiership nor in Europe. OGS has the edge at Old Trafford as he is a legend there and knows the ethos. Which some previous managers failed to grasp.
In the Europa League Utd will face, assuming they don't throw away a 5 goal lead and beat their quarter final opponents, either Roma or Seville in the semi final not an easy tie. Winning the FA won't be easy either.

A lot of people have this idea OGS isn't a tactician.....but when it's not working on the pitch he changes tact, isn't that what master tactician does?

Yes the coffers are healthier at Old Trafford, but that does guarantee success, just an expectation of success. "

Thanks Nigey, it seems it was created as I wrote.
Sheff Utd shown the money isn't the be all and end all football.

All good points Michael


I still don't see sufficient evidence of OGS's technical nous. Despite the current purple patch I would be very surprised if OGS remains in post for longer than 18 months. Still, happy to be proved wrong and, to be honest, I am quite surprised that he has turned it around recently.

Susan wrote: "Oh, the Aston Villa game is making me somewhat nervous..."


Flipping Palace. You just can't trust them.

The last thing we need is Villa believing they can get out of it (which, of course, they will have every right to if they win today as they seem likely to do).

Here's hoping Bournemouth and Leicester have read the script later.

Nigey, as Man Utd play Southampton, Palace and West Ham I hope you come to appreciate OGS footballing nous! After all we need all the points to guarantee Champions League next season. But this is why we enjoy football.

I'm confident Man Utd will make the top four. Will they sustain a challenge for the league next season? Can't see it. But who knows? They've got plenty of money and it's going to be a buyer's market so a few astute signings could change everything.

Nige 1 - 1 looking a good prediction. London derby.

Thanks for opening this board and apologies for any inconvenience that this may have caused.

Nigeyb wrote: "I'm confident Man Utd will make the top four. Will they sustain a challenge for the league next season? Can't see it. But who knows? They've got plenty of money and it's going to be a buyer's marke..."

Nige - even the most ardent Man U fan would surely concede that they are still a long way behind Liverpool and Man City. You reckon?

Nigeyb wrote: "Susan wrote: "Oh, the Aston Villa game is making me somewhat nervous..."


Flipping Palace. You just can't trust them.

The last thing we need is Villa believing they can get out of it (which, of c..."

Lol - Palace your big rivals by any chance?

Think Villa have Everton away next...and they got mullered by Wolves today. Could be a close game.
Sorry about that, Susan...lol.

On the bright side...efc are usually very tricky to beat at Jurassic Park so, as a hammer fan, I would expect that result to go in your favour.

Ian, yes huge gulf between Liverpool and the rest of the Premiership this season that cannot be denied. Looking forward to the final games of this season still a lot at stake at both ends of the table.
Man City plateau? Chelsea in decline? Liverpool building on success? Leicester in free fall. Will Spurs and Arsenal bounce back. There are only three domestic trophies and so many teams good enough to win them!

Spurs nick it. Ah well.


Yes Ian, Man Utd still got a lot of catching up to do but with a few new signings who knows? I think it would take a managerial upgrade too, but Michael has a different perspective

oh and Man City to learn verdict on Champions league ban tomorrow....champions league spot for the team to using 5th in the Premiership looming?

Seriously, as a Liverpool fanI think I can say safely say that we are very happy to see OGS stay in control at Man U. He is doing better now but has a long way to go.

Liverpool - believe it or not but I think we were actually better last season...but great season none the less.

Man City - excellent - playing better than us at the moment. Hard to beat again next year.

Arse and Spurs - still rebuilding.

Chelski - Frank done great job and could do well next season - Willian...brilliant!

Wolves - really good.

Sheffield u - impressed.

Everton...? What d’you think?

Other clubs email to follow - Chinese takeaway just arrived...along with Vardy’s goal! :)

There's a very strong correlation between player wages and league position


The most recent data I could find was from an article in the Daily Mirror from November 2019 which had worked out the average weekly player wage by club.

Here it is....

Every Premier League club's average weekly player salary...

20. Sheffield United - £9,000
19. Norwich City - £12,000
18. Aston Villa - £25,000
17. Watford - £30,000
16. Brighton - £30,000
15. Burnley - £35,000
14. Bournemouth - £35,000
13. Wolverhampton Wanderers - £36,673
12. Newcastle - £38,000
11. Southampton - £50,000
10. Leicester City - £50,000
9. Crystal Palace - £55,000
8. West Ham - £65,000
7. Everton - £65,000
6. Tottenham - £72,500
5. Manchester United - £90,000
4. Arsenal - £92,000
3. Chelsea - £95,000
2. Liverpool - £100,000
1. Manchester City - £115,000

Broadly that's how the table will look with a few underperforming, and a few really over performing (Leicester, Wolves, Burnley and, especially, Sheffield United)

I'm quite surprised Man Utd don't pay higher wages. If this is accurate then maybe I'm being a bit unfair to OGS above

Yeah, Nige - but do all the clubs have different numbers of players in their squads? I would suggest that the bigger the squad then less/player. Great information - cheers.

Is there any serious money in the club to spend on ‘top’ players at Brighton?

Just thinking about Bournemouth. - they just don’t seemed to have strengthened their squad and clubs have worked them out now. They were a revelation when they joined the Prem but don’t seem to have that positive edge or real desire about now. Why didn’t Eddie (good manager) invest and strengthen - seems to me that they have tried to do it on the cheap hence problems at the bottom end of the table. That fair comment or not You reckon?

Oh...1 - 1...25 mins to go.

Wow...gone 2 - 1 up!

Doing Man Utd a favour here.

The goal difference has been impacted too.

Now didn't expect that! But since the return of footie Leicester have struggled.

4 - 1 for Bournemouth...wow!

Looking at the fixtures left I think that Bournemouth and Villa still have it all to do.

Oh , hold on a minute...Watford have:

West Ham (A)
Man City (H)
Arsenal (A)

Now that ain’t easy...

Next Friday: West Ham v Watford...what a big, big, BIG game that is.

Oh Susan...Susan Susan, Susan....my nerves are jangling for you already!

And West Ham have Man Utd too! And Bournemouth will face Man City. Unfortunately as the league finishes before the European fixtures restart they won't influence team selection like they may have done in the past.

This weekend could not have gone much worse for Albion


With Bournemouth at 0-1 half time, and with Watford’s remaining fixtures, it didn’t seem quite so bad. Couldn’t believe that scoreline at the end.

Need something from Southampton

Nigeyb wrote: "This weekend could not have gone much worse for Albion


With Bournemouth at 0-1 half time, and with Watford’s remaining fixtures, it didn’t seem quite so bad. Couldn’t believe that scoreline at th..."

Leicester just imploded...looked really bad to me...Jonny Evans looked like a broken man after the other centre half got sent off - was strange to see.

West Ham - playing quite well and fixtures not bad for them - 34 points too. Will be fine if they beat Watford.

Watford - watched them second half v Newcastle and they looked like they meant business. Fixtures tough, but they all seem to be 'together as a club' but a big problem is only 34 points. Once again Friday night v West Ham is crucial for them (even more than for the Hammers).

Villa and Bournemouth - tough games left and not enough points already on the board for me. Both clubs need at least one fantastic performance and min of 6 points. Tall order.

Brighton - played well against us (Lpool) but looking at the scoreline presumably not great v City. Any team can easily lose heavily against City as they are that good - look at us the other week - 4-0 and should have been more, but it might now depend on the confidence of the Brighton players themselves. Fixtures - not bad and should beat Newcastle at home. Also already have 36 points.

Yeah, still Bournemouth and Villa to go down for me but could also be Watford if the Hornets do not win on Friday.

Interesting stuff.

Btw - on the local radio phone-in last night Everton fans were fuming - they are not a happy bunch at the moment (even with their current Prem position and having CA in charge) and are demanding big improvements - don't blame them either. They have Villa at home next...result might rest on how Jack Grealish performs on the night.

Sounds about right Ian


Everton and West Ham seem to be two of the worst run clubs in the league. No long term vision. Often sign older players looking for a final pay day or unproven foreign imports. I'd be unhappy if I supported either team.

Palace and Watford two more teams who need to watch where they are headed based on the way they are finishing this season.

Leicester and Rodgers seems to same old Rodgers. Great at getting things buzzing and organised but less convincing when form dips.

I don't know any Watford fans, so I will be keeping my fingers crossed for Susan and West Ham on Friday.
Brighton are not technically safe, but they don't look as if they are in any danger either. They have a chance of picking up points from any of their last three matches, which is better than those below them, and might even climb a place.

Light slap on the wrist for Man City then? That'll teach em

My thoughts too. However, CAS and UEFA require different level of evidence. But t seems UEFA erred from a legal and technical perspective hence the decision.

Man City - Probably end up winning the champions League now as a punishment for their 'accidental oversight' - minus 10 million Euro's.

A mere drop in the ocean for them, methinks.

Val wrote: "I don't know any Watford fans, so I will be keeping my fingers crossed for Susan and West Ham on Friday.
Brighton are not technically safe, but they don't look as if they are in any danger either. ..."

Val - Sir Elton John? :)

Yuh, RIP FFP

I went to see him play once, but can't say I know him personally.

By the by, I'm more of a fan of the Champ and the EFL leagues one and two, than the Prem


The Championship is the most exciting and absorbing league around.

Anyone else take a keen interest in matters EFL?

Monday morning office football chat always included Oldham, Rochdale and Wigan so always aware of football outside the Premiership.

oh forget to add Huddersfield and Stockport County too.

Anyone watching Man U v Soton?

Very organised Soton side, good pass completion rate, giving Utd some problems.
Foul on Greenwood, unseen by ref, looked at by video ref no further action.....? Not convinced.

Soton well deserved that point.

Michael wrote: "Anyone watching Man U v Soton?"
I was

Michael wrote: "Soton well deserved that point."
and yes, they did.
Man U deserve a Champion's League place as well though, so I hope they get it without upsetting any other club's fans in the group. Does anyone here object to them thrashing Chelsea?

Val wrote: "Michael wrote: "Soton well deserved that point."
and yes, they did.
Man U deserve a Champion's League place as well though, so I hope they get it without upsetting other club's fans in the group. D..."

After watching that second half no-one will be wanting to play Southampton - they gave nothing away, carried on playing and thoroughly deserved that point. Man Utd just stopped playing with so much at stake - not sure why.

Man U have already beaten Chelsea three times season and meet then again in the FA Cup. Crucial Premiership games is Leicester v Man U, last game on the season, to settle the Championship League place.

Val wrote: "Michael wrote: "Soton well deserved that point."
and yes, they did.
Man U deserve a Champion's League place as well though, so I hope they get it without upsetting other club's fans in the group. D..."

Yeah, Val - Chelski all the way!!

I know that they are a little adrift, but I honestly think that Wolves deserve that place - they have been more consistent throughout the season for me and are always a good watch on the tv. Traore - he's been a revelation...but others have been so good there too.

Agreed that Man Utd have been good recently, but not sure why you think that they deserve that place? You a Utd fan...or just not that fussed about Frank and the Chelski boys?

Not a lot in it between Man U and Chelski at the moment, so think it may well go down to the wire.

Southampton are my local team, so I know from experience that their form can be erratic. It is quite possible that now they have demonstrated their ability and determination against a top team, they will stroll around the pitch as if the next game (against B&HA) is a bit of light training.

Let's hope so Val. Albion need the points far more than Saints

Val wrote: "Southampton are my local team, so I know from experience that their form can be erratic. It is quite possible that now they have demonstrated their ability and determination against a top team, the..."

Lol - not if that manager of yours has anything to do with it!

I loved his comment after the game last night when the journo asked him if he had told the young guy to stand on the line and wait for the ball at the back post and he replied (with humour) - " Definitely not as my players know I always tell them to run everywhere and NEVER just to stand still". Got a feeling that his players understand exactly where he is coming from. At the moment Soton all seem to be playing with purpose, want to win and are showing lots of passion and commitment.
So yeah, Val, after me saying all that...I wouldn't be surprised to see that in their next game that you are proven to be absolutely right.

Such is football! :)