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The Shadow King
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Booker Prize for Fiction > 2020 Booker Shortlist: The Shadow King

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message 1: by Trevor (last edited Jul 27, 2020 04:30PM) (new)


Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments Interested in your thoughts Ella

I started reading this last week as I was sure it was going to be Booker longlisted (due to links to two judges) but I found it hard to focus on it and read a couple of ARCs (Jack and the new DBC Pierre instead).

It was not that I was not enjoying it, it felt that the scenes were weighted down a little by portent and the sentences by similes.


Ella (ellamc) | 1018 comments Gumble's Yard wrote: "Interested in your thoughts Ella

I started reading this last week as I was sure it was going to be Booker longlisted (due to links to two judges) but I found it hard to focus on it and read a coup..."


This may have been the last book I read before the pandemic really hit here, actually. It is a heavy book. Not just the topics, but the writing too - everything feels weighty, especially at first. It took me a bit to get into it, but once I was in, it really rolled right along.

Just some quick general thoughts b/c it feels like a decade since mid-February to me:
- the book picks up and by the end it's moving at quite a clip.
- she gives everyone - both sides of the war - subtleties and nuance, which is just something I greatly appreciate when writing about war. There are characters on both sides who feature importantly, and there are no "all good" or "all bad" ones.
- her history seemed pretty good when I did check on it, but I'll admit to not diving deeply there. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reading pure fantasy.
- definitely this is one you want to read visually at least along with audio because there are pictures (photos.) While they aren't urgent to see, it's a nice addition.
- the technology is super interesting
- the women are strong yet still clearly women, if that makes any sense. I was in awe of lots of the characters, for various reasons, by the end, and I was sad that it ended.
- had the pandemic not come, I probably would have spent a while learning and reading a lot more about the two Italo-Ethiopian wars. It's pretty fascinating even without a story laid on top of it.


message 4: by Paul (last edited Jul 28, 2020 08:58AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Paul Fulcher (fulcherkim) | 13480 comments I had forgotten that in the novel EEG by Daša Drndić, which translated by Celia Hawkesworth won the 2020 best Translated Book Award, the narrator, and authorial alter ego, Andreas Ban meets a 'young Ethopian-American writer Maaza Mengiste'.

This was based on a real-life meeting between Drndić and Mengiste at a literary festival in Florence in 2015 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYX28...)

And Mengiste credits the conversation with changing this novel completely - indeed she tore up her previous 800 page draft and started again:

https://thecreativeindependent.com/pe...

We were in Italy having wine. She was smoking. I was talking to her about the troubles I was having finding the story in my new novel. I had done so much research for it, but the story was escaping me. She took a puff of her cigarette and said, “You know, that’s the trouble with all you Americans. You care too much about stories. Fuck stories. Who cares about stories? What do you want to say and how do you want to say it?” I thought back to that moment when I was sitting at my desk and I’d just come back from meeting with my editor. What do I want to say?

I thought, “If I could do anything I wanted and I’m not worried about telling a story but I’m just letting the story come out, what would I do then?” Then I threw away the whole manuscript. Tossed the entire first draft of the book. I started again from page one.


For those who've read it - does it have a Daša Drndić flavour?


Ella (ellamc) | 1018 comments Paul wrote: "I had forgotten that in the novel EEG by Daša Drndić, which translated by Celia Hawkesworth won the 2020 best Translated Book Award, the narrator, and authorial alter ego, Andreas B..."

That is a very interesting story & thanks for the links, etc.

Unfortunately, I read it the week it came out in the US, which was a while ago (feels like 100 years) and I can't say. I didn't notice it, but I wasn't looking either. Off the top of my head, no. It's still more "story-ish" than Drndić, whom I adore, but maybe someone who has read it more recently can notice better than me. Thanks for the interesting info!


Paul Fulcher (fulcherkim) | 13480 comments Yes it doesn’t sound very Drndicy relatively speaking. But given in her Guardian interview recently she also was reading Thomas Bernhard, I feel this one calling to me.

That said the last person Booker longlisted who mentioned Bernhard in a Guardian interview, was the author of my least favourite book on last year’s list.


Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments I told you about 2 weeks ago Paul

- this would be longlisted
- you would 100 percent guaranteed to read it and rave about it if it had been translated from Amharic (apologies if that’s the wrong language)
- that she likes Trieste and Bernhard so nanechecks all your favourites

Glad you are finally catching up!!!


Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments My sense is that what happened with the Daša Drndić conversation was that

- she decided her years of historical research should just be naturally in the background and not pushed into the foreground (someone should tell Ian McEwan and Paul Mendez)

- she should find different ways to tell the story - eg using a chorus of voices and images

Both of these feature from the 120 or so pages I read.


message 9: by Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer (last edited Jul 29, 2020 10:18AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments Ella you reference photos - but the U.K. edition only has one I think, (correction 2 - one before the story starts, one after it ends) he others are described verbally, and they while form a crucial part of the book, they are not reproduced?


message 10: by Ella (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ella (ellamc) | 1018 comments Gumble's Yard wrote: "Ella you reference photos - but the U.K. edition only has one I think, the others are described verbally, and they while form a crucial part of the book, they are not reproduced?"

That's weird. I know the first photo is a "real" picture (meaning an actual picture of someone somehow connected either to her or the book or something - my brain!) However, my hardback US edition had around 12-15 photos through the book. It's also a signed first edition, so maybe that became untenable financially or something & they limited it? Dunno. I will try to look into why that is different.


Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments I will comment under your review


message 12: by Paul (new) - rated it 4 stars

Paul Fulcher (fulcherkim) | 13480 comments In interviews she has suggested there are only two photographs in the book:

I made a very deliberate decision not to put photographs in the book. There are two, the bookends. Writing the word-images inside book was my way of thinking about how to move beyond “bearing witness”—where the witness is always outside and bearing the burden of witnessing—and the act of looking is an unwieldy responsibility that’s put on that person, and it’s not a natural thing, it’s a weight.

https://africasacountry.com/2020/05/c...

She has though prepared an archive of photos including those she gathered during the writing of the book: https://www.project3541.com/


message 13: by Ella (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ella (ellamc) | 1018 comments Hmm - I wonder if because I preordered it there was some change at the last minute? I wonder if she knows that she did a signing with copies of her books that definitely have pictures. I'll go through my boxes until I find it (I'd planned to do that, then I got overwhelmed looking at the boxes of "read-but-keepers" and walked away. I tend not to organize those b/c I'd planned on the library being finished by now & figured I'd organize as I unpacked the keepers...) Anyway, when I locate my more recently read boxes & hence the book, I'll snap some pictures of my copy.


message 14: by Trevor (new)

Trevor (mookse) | 1865 comments Mod
I got this as an Apple e-book from the publisher, and I just developed carpal tunnel flicking through the whole book on my phone to see what the photo situation was in this edition. It has just the two bookends here. You may well have a special book, Ella! I'm jealous since I quite like photographs in my books!


message 15: by Paul (new) - rated it 4 stars

Paul Fulcher (fulcherkim) | 13480 comments Sounds like you may indeed have a rather valuable edition.

I do recall the Goldsmiths shortlisted Line Made My Walking from 2017 which included picture of dead animals and:

Original Irish version had them at the start of each chapter

UK version had them in the body of the text

US version omitted them altogether

I had the pleasure to ask the author about it in person and turned out the UK version was what she preferred but her original publisher had persuaded her otherwise. And the US one had decided the photos were too distressing.


message 16: by John (new) - rated it 4 stars

John Banks | 190 comments My review on this one. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Strong, fine novel that I'm pleased I had the opportunity to read. Still thinking about where it will fit in my ranking. A potential shortlist contender. For me thee is something about it that perhaps makes it a little stronger than How Much of These Hills is Gold, tough decisions as the quality of writing in Hills is just so good, but there is a grounded coherence maintained through Shadow King that I think I I personally prefer. I could see people putting either ahead of the other. Both outstanding novels.


Robert | 2654 comments MisterHobgoblin wrote: "I really failed to engage with The Shadow King. For a novel that seemed to have a lot of running around, it was nevertheless glacial. The whole thing seemed to lead up, over several years, to a set..."

I can answer the first part of your question :)

Italy wanted to colonize Africa, not just Ethiopia (in fact they manages to take over Libya and a part of Somaliland) because they believed it would improve trade realtions with other countries and because Africa had a lot of natural products for importation.


Robert | 2654 comments My video review : https://youtu.be/-OUKBT9CuR8 - with a special guest appearance from Pumpkin the cat


message 19: by peg (new)

peg | 159 comments Excellent review Robert and I love your note of humour at the end! Here is my video review of it and a few others using my 25 point judging system. So glad to have another Booktuber in this group!

https://youtu.be/7BO3A5_ZKZ8


Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments Given your excellent video Robert and MHGs comments I am feeling less bad about the fact that I was unable to complete this in the week prior to the longlist and so far am reading all the rest before I go back to it.


message 21: by peg (new)

peg | 159 comments Ha! I was afraid I was being too hard on Shadow King in my video so was glad to to now see MHG and Paul’s. I try not to read any others before my expositions!


message 22: by Ang (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ang | 1685 comments Comment removed as it appeared to be a spoiler.


Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments I found this like some of the other books on the list "Burnt Sugar" and "This Mournable Body" hardwork at times to read (I did not need to go quite so far as Robert and the pillow in his video) but fascinating to reflect on and then review.

I think this is a book where everything is weighted down, blurred and shadowed by history and memory - to the extent that I do think it makes the actual main narrative lack a certain transparency.

Anyway more here

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...


LindaJ^ (lindajs) | 1121 comments While I found the book slow reading and somewhat uneven, I very much liked it. I suspect it will remain in my head for a very long time. Looking at war from a female warrior's perspective (outside of science fiction) is uncommon in historical fiction. I liked the interlude story of Haile Selassie as well. I am now going to obtain her first novel. My review --
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...


Nicholas (vonlicorice) | 104 comments I got a bit mired in the first half of this one, but it picked up in the second half once the plots and characters started coming together. (I switched to audiobook midway, which may have helped too.) The history it presented was fascinating and one I knew very little about, and I appreciated its grander scope compared to some of the other longlisted titles I've read so far. Somehow the characters didn't fully come to life for me and I found myself less engaged than I would have liked to be as a result.


Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments Edinburgh book festival event with Maaza Mengiste and Douglas Stuart as well as Paul Mendez (who has a strong Booker connection of his own)

https://www.edbookfest.co.uk/the-fest...

Great question at the end.


Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments Mengiste said today. “Homer is my homie” - bet she hopes Emily Wilson was watching.


message 28: by Ella (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ella (ellamc) | 1018 comments Gumble's Yard wrote: "Mengiste said today. “Homer is my homie” - bet she hopes Emily Wilson was watching."

“Homer is my homie” should be a bumper sticker if it isn't already.


message 29: by Sam (new)

Sam | 2266 comments Start printing them up. I want one,


message 30: by Val (new)

Val | 1016 comments This is one of the 'electronic version only' library books, so it might be some time before I get to it. I read one of her earlier books, knowing I wouldn't reserve or order this one for some time. Has anyone read both this and Beneath the Lion's Gaze? Is her style the same in both books?


Nicholas (vonlicorice) | 104 comments Gumble's Yard wrote: "I think this is a book where everything is weighted down, blurred and shadowed by history and memory - to the extent that I do think it makes the actual main narrative lack a certain transparency."

I'm glad to hear you say this. I was worried that I was being dense about some of the plot elements or that my comprehension was suffering due to my midway switch to audiobook. (I sometimes zone out and miss things when listening to a book that isn't fully engaging to me.) This makes a lot of sense as an explanation for why I found myself struggling.


message 32: by David (last edited Aug 20, 2020 06:11AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

David | 51 comments Nicholas wrote: "I got a bit mired in the first half of this one, but it picked up in the second half once the plots and characters started coming together. (I switched to audiobook midway, which may have helped to..."

I very much agree with you, Nicholas. The book definitely gets better in the second half. The first part felt somehow disjointed.

My main issue with the book, though, was the writing style. The language is beautiful but there is an abundance of metaphors and symbolism. Mengiste's most striking stylistic device is the use of photographic descriptions. Instead of showing the characters' thoughts, there are lengthy passages about postures, glances and, most often, light and shadow. This choice is certainly exceptional, but I think it creates a distance between the characters and me as a reader. I didn't feel any sympathy or empathy for any of the characters.

I don't think this is a bad book, the story itself and the historical background are certainly interesting. I attended a wonderful reading by Mengiste at the beginning of March (she was interviewed by Kamila Shamsie) and on the way home from that reading I was sure that I'd love the novel which unfortunately isn't the case.

Here's my full review


message 33: by BookerMT2 (new)

BookerMT2 | 151 comments A huge success for me. Loved the writing. Read it in three sittings. Simply great storytelling of the highest calibre.
I especially liked the fact that although you may want to root for the main characters they all have significant flaws which make you think negatively about them.
Although on the surface a novel about women and war there are also bits about father/son relationships I especially found poignant.
Have to admit this wasn't a bit of history I was aware of but the novel has made me want to find out more.
This feels like quite an important historical novel covering a little known event to many and was a refreshing change from the tedium of Tudor England.


message 34: by Hugh, Active moderator (new) - rated it 4 stars

Hugh (bodachliath) | 4433 comments Mod
BookerMT2 wrote: "A huge success for me. Loved the writing. Read it in three sittings. Simply great storytelling of the highest calibre.
I especially liked the fact that although you may want to root for the main ch..."

I finished this last night and agree with much of what you said (though my views on Mantel's Tudors are much more positive). It is a very strong longlist on the evidence so far (nine books in). I have not yet written a review.


Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments BookerMT2 will you be adding your rankings to the dynamic rankings comparison.


message 36: by Abby (new) - rated it 4 stars

Abby | 14 comments I'm about two-thirds through the book and I admire it greatly but it takes perseverance. I made the mistake of picking up Redhead by the Side of the Road and got sucked in immediately to a far easier and enjoyable read. I do plan to go back to Shadow King but I needed a break.


Karen Michele Burns (klibrary) | 209 comments Gumble's Yard wrote: "Edinburgh book festival event with Maaza Mengiste and Douglas Stuart as well as Paul Mendez (who has a strong Booker connection of his own)

https://www.edbookfest.co.uk/the-fest...-..."


I highly recommend watching this session. I enjoyed the book, and was interested in the photography descriptions and the interview enhanced that enjoyment. I'm struggling with my rankings because I feel the list I've read is strong so far.


Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments Particularly good question at the end on the importance of mourning and memory in the book (although I may be biased given I asked it!).

Ella I wondered if the photos she held up were the ones in your special US edition?

I do find this a book I am enjoying much more now when I look back than when I actually read it.


message 39: by Bryn (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bryn Lerud | 43 comments I’m 100 pages from the end of this book and my experience echoes all of you. I’m astounded by the beauty of the writing at the same time as I’m saying OMG another 200 pages!! Despite the difficulty I think this will be a 4 star read. This book was a selection from the Powells Indiespensible 1st edition club.


Karen Michele Burns (klibrary) | 209 comments Gumble's Yard wrote: "Particularly good question at the end on the importance of mourning and memory in the book (although I may be biased given I asked it!).

Ella I wondered if the photos she held up were the ones in..."


That was definitely a good question!


LindaJ^ (lindajs) | 1121 comments This book did take perseverance to read, but I liked it very much. At times I wanted to simplify it so that it was not such a struggle. There was so much important stuff going on, in addition to the historical account of a war I'd never hear of before.


message 42: by BookerMT2 (new)

BookerMT2 | 151 comments Gumble's Yard wrote: "BookerMT2 will you be adding your rankings to the dynamic rankings comparison."

Yes, I'm happy to add my list. I'm just two thirds through The New Wilderness which will be my 9th title so when I've finished that one I'll add my list.


message 43: by Bryn (new) - rated it 4 stars

Bryn Lerud | 43 comments I finished. Now to write a review. What an amazing beautiful difficult book. I might have to actually give it 5 stars.


Suzanne Whatley | 211 comments I’m a third of the way through and absolutely loving it! Easily my favourite longlist specific read (I had read Apeirogon and TMATL prior to the announcement and they are currently my 1 and 2 spots - though this is knocking at that door). I love the style of writing and different sections, and I am finding the story/historical context fascinating. I’m hoping the remainder of the novel continues to impress - a bit wary as I also really liked the first part How Much of these Hills way more than the rest.


WndyJW I’ve decided to start this now and your comments have me looking forward to an excellent read.


Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer | 10155 comments Suzanne wrote: "I’m a third of the way through and absolutely loving it! Easily my favourite longlist specific read (I had read Apeirogon and TMATL prior to the announcement and they are currently my 1 and 2 spots..."

Suzanne - it does change around that time (as the first third or so is mainly set up of the dynamic between the characters before the outbreak of war: the author has said in interviews it was important for her to do this) - but if anything I have the impression most people prefer the book once it more hits its stride. Look forward to your review when you are done.


WndyJW So far this is a quicker read for me than HMOTHIG. I think it will be in the top 3 for me, but I’m only about 100 pgs in.


Suzanne Whatley | 211 comments Finished reading it and a clear 5 star read for me. Such a compelling narrative beautifully told. It was a bit of a weighty read but I never felt bogged down by it. With only 3 books on the longlist left to read, this is in the top 2 for me - need to sit with it a bit before deciding whether it’s 1st or 2nd though.


WndyJW How old do you think Hirut is when she goes to live with Kidane and Astra? I’m thinking 12-14??


WndyJW I’m only halfway, about pg 220, but from what I’ve read and what others here have said, and that I find it’s getting better as I read, I can see this winning. Shuggie Bain and TMATL are 5 star books, but if they want to reward something other than stories of White western lives this would be it.

I don’t see the comparison to Toni Morrison though, Morrison gives us a much more intimate portrayal of her characters, there is no magic realism, and the writing isn’t similar, but it is as good as Morrison.

I hope I like This Mournable Body and Burnt Sugar almost as much.


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