THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion

This theme month is a special theme read in remembrance of Eric Hammel, author and military historian of the American fighting man, who recently passed away. Please join in with one of Eric's many books.

Eric Hammel:
https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...

His Books:
https://www.goodreads.com/author/list...

I'm sorry to hear of the passing of Eric Hammel. Since the 1990s, I've had the pleasure of becoming acquainted with his books, having read -- as a military aviation enthusiast -- both "Aces Against Germany: The American Aces Speak" and "Aces Against Japan: The American Aces Speak" in their Mass Market Paperback editions.

Among the Eric Hammel books I have in my library, I'm set on reading the following 2 books before the end of 2021 ---

i) Guadalcanal Decision at Sea: The Naval Battle of Guadalcanal



ii) How America Saved the World: The Untold Story of U.S. Preparedness Between the World Wars

I have never heard of him but so sorry he recently passed away. 😭😇but I hope to read some of his books with y’all.

Guadalcanal: Starvation Island

I’ve had this for a while and just never got to it. I think it’s time to read it now.

Sorry to hear of Mr. Hammel's passing. I've read a number of his books over the years like the ones on Khe Sanh, Hue and most recently his account of the Battle of the Eastern Solomons.
I'm sure his books will be sought after and read for a long time to come.

Thanks for doing this Rick.

I was planning on reading a different book on Vietnam in September, but now I'm going to switch to this one:

Khe Sanh: Siege in the Clouds. An Oral History

Had this one on the shelf for a while. Good reason to read it:

Chosin: Heroic Ordeal of the Korean War by Eric Hammel

Some good books being mentioned for this theme. Like Scott I am thinking of reading his book on Guadalcanal.

Guadalcanal: Starvation Island by Eric Hammel

I also am sorry to hear of Mr. Hammel's passing. Like many of you, I have a few of his books sitting here as yet unread. While I was trying to decide which one to read, I realised that one of them, Fire In The Streets: The Battle For Hue, Tet 1968, happened to be the last book I purchased from the late Steve Magina, proprietor of Magina Books (Lincoln Park, Michigan), who himself passed away three years ago this month. Although he had no particular interest in military history specifically, he knew that many of us did, and consequently he always put a great deal of effort into making sure that his relatively small shop had a large and extremely well-stocked military history section. Steve was the sort of guy who would put a new Brodart cover on every single hardcover he sold, and then priced them so cheaply that regular customers (myself included) would frequently try to convince him to charge more. He always just laughed and said we were crazy...
Anyway, I haven't decided yet which book to read, but it will either be that one or The Root: The Marines In Beirut August 1982-February 1984; I'll post again after I decide and have read a few pages.

Library is getting me Islands of Hell: The U.S. Marines in the Western Pacific, 1944-1945.

Sorry to hear of his passing. I've only read The Jolly Rogers which he was a co-author. Since I have been on a naval theme lately I bought Guadalcanal: Decision at Sea last night on Kobo and got started right away.

Some more great books being mentioned for this theme read, great stuff!

Liam wrote: "I also am sorry to hear of Mr. Hammel's passing. Like many of you, I have a few of his books sitting here as yet unread. While I was trying to decide which one to read, I realised that one of them,..."

Great story about Steve Magina and his bookstore, Liam. Sounds like a great guy.

Kudos to Rick for picking this topic dedicated to Eric Hammel. I only recently discovered him a couple years ago and picked up a few of his books on Kindle.
For the group, re-reading Guadalcanal:Starvation Island.

Early on describing the May US Carrier attack on Tulagi he makes following comment:
The aircraft that struck the Tulagi anchorage on May 5 were from a battle force commanded by RAdm Frank Jack Fletcher that had come to within relatively few miles of Guadalcanal's southern coast. The aggressive American aircrews sank four small craft and a small cargo ship. In addition, one Japanese destroyer had to be beached, a total loss, and another was sent limping toward Rabaul; it was sunk several days later by an American submarine. An estimated 200 Japanese were killed ashore by bombs and strafing. Many of the wounded died for lack of adequate medical care.

So Question for the group--was this lack of medical care unique to Tulagi's situation as being set up as an outpost with very few men? What did Japanese medical logistics look like? Did they have field hospitals, stretcher bearers, non-combat medics like other nations? A system similar to Red Cross? I don't recall ever reading about this before.

Thank you!

Good questions Rory. I've not come across much material in the books I've read on the Pacific campaign covering Japanese medical services other than that they appeared to be sub-standard. However I did find this link which provides some information on the subject:

https://www.lonesentry.com/articles/t...

Plus this document offers some good information on the subject as well:

https://watermark.silverchair.com/mil...

Interesting question and good find on an answer. Personal thought, considering conditions the Japanese fought under (especially after resupply was cut off) there was likely little or no first aid or medical attention available.

Some more observations of Guadalcanal: Starvation Island
1. Hammel doesn't use footnotes or at least not in my version
2. He wrote this in 1986, pre-internet--only a few of the books in his bibliography are in the 70's, rest are 1962 or earlier. Most recent he used was 1978.
3. First chapter focuses on the Coast Watchers-he mentions more than just Martin Clemens.
4. Second chapter puts forth his theory that landbased air power is what mattered most in Pacific. hence the importance of the Solomons. He notes that in 1942 the Japanese planes had range advantage over most US planes, the 4 engine bombers being too few to be effective.

Still in chapter two--two more observations:
1. Felt this passage was rather simplistic: "The Japanese had long preferred an expansion from Rabaul toward Port Moresby, New Guinea, over an occupation of the Solomons, but the outcome of the Coral Sea Battle turned them from the preferred course."

My understanding Japanese Army preferred New Guinea, anything else they were stretched thin with China, Malaysia, Burma, Indonesia, plus keeping troops at Soviet border to Manuchuria. Part of the Navy command preferred going after Fiji, Samoa, New Hebrides, etc.

2. Interesting take on MacArthur--"While there was little of material good that he could do at the outset, MacArthur quickly launched a propaganda effort as the first step in reinvigorating the defeat-weary peoples of Australia, New Zealand, and the United States. It was a crucial first step, and a shrewd one."


Thoughts?

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Good questions Rory. I've not come across much material in the books I've read on the Pacific campaign covering Japanese medical services other than that they appeared to be sub-standard. However I..."

Thank you, Rick. Mind checking the second link from silverchair did not work for me. First document sounds like medics were combat medics. Did they have any non-combat medics that you could find?

John wrote: "Interesting question and good find on an answer. Personal thought, considering conditions the Japanese fought under (especially after resupply was cut off) there was likely little or no first aid o..."
Good point, John, but in land based campaigns like China, Nomohan/Khalkin Gol, Burma, Malaysia, was medical situation any better? Going by memory but I thought the death to wounded ratio was rather high for the Japanese at Khalkin Gol. I also have to check for my John Ellis book of stats in the garage but I seem to recall that Japanese soldier had higher chance of being killed than wounded, vs the Allied and German soldiers.
Did they have the equivalent of the Purple Heart?
I appreciate anyone providing the answers and a good book on the Japanese military as I am just not as familiar with Japanese especially their ground forces.
Thank you!

Hi Rory, I can no longer find that link and its not working for me either, don't know what happened. Shame as it was a 75 page document on Japanese medicine from the Russo-Japanese War to WW2.

Hi Rory, if your really interested in the Japanese Imperial Army you will need to source out these books:

Rikugun: Guide to Japanese Ground Forces 1937-1945: Volume 1: Tactical Organization of Imperial Japanese Army & Navy Ground Forces by Leland S. Ness

Rikugun: Guide to Japanese Ground Forces 1937-1945: Volume 2: Weapons of the Imperial Japanese Army & Navy Ground Forces by Leland S. Ness

I also have an unread copy of; "The Imperial Japanese Army: The Invincible Years 1941-42" by Bill Yenne but I can't tell you if it covers the material your interested in to any depth.

The Imperial Japanese Army: The Invincible Years 1941-42 by Bill Yenne

The first dogfight over Guadalcanal involving the Japanese ace, Saburo Sakai, has been mentioned in Eric Hammel's book. This aerial combat led to Saburo Sakai being wounded and blinded in one eye and then having to fly back to his base on Rabaul, a flight of four hours and 45 minutes with him at times barely conscious.

Saburo Sakai:
https://www.historynet.com/samurai-of...

https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/onlin...

In Eric Hammel's book; Guadalcanal: Starvation Island" he mentions the actions of Signalman First Class Douglas A. Munro, US Coast Guard, who was awarded the Medal of Honor, posthumously. He became the only US Coast Guard to be so honoured during WW2.

Signalman First Class Douglas A. Munro, US Coast Guard:
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war...

https://www.uso.org/stories/2172-the-...

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2... Decision at Sea. I have read many books dealing with the Naval battles around Guadalcanal and the Solomons. This ranks right at the top. When I saw the size of this book I couldn’t believe he basically only deals with 3 battles over 3 days and nights in Nov. 1942.

The authors attention to detail is outstanding. He gives a brief summary of every ship giving details of size, armament, strengths and weaknesses.

This is not a dry boring book. He gives a minute by minute, hit by hit description of the battles. The pounding these ships and sailors dished out and received is amazing. From the Admiral who put his flag in a non-radar cruiser to a corpsman doing an amputation on the deck during the battle, the personal stories are here. Sailors had to deal with injuries and mayhem on board but once abandoning ship their trials were not over, sharks, their own depth charges blowing up beneath them, being run over by their own allies and drifting for hours.

Not a lot of Japanese commentary but likely not enough personal documentation. He does have some commentary about Capt. Hara (Japanese destroyer Captain).

Between the Naval night battles and daily Cactus Airforce attacks the Japanese were fought to a standstill and the tide was turning.

Let bed this and I will be reading many more of Eric Hammel books!

Great to hear you really enjoyed the book. I have a copy of; "Guadalcanal: The Carrier Battles" waiting to be read in my library and have ordered a copy of "Guadalcanal Decision at Sea" to complete the trilogy.

You will enjoy it. I’ll be getting the rest of the trilogy soon.

Rick--thank you for the books on Japanese Army. I will definitely look for those and add to my TBR.

Author's website mentions he wrote first draft when he was 15 (1961) which explains why many of the books in bibliography are pre 1961. He published it in 1986.

Ok--one more note for Chapter 2 then question on Chapter 3 for all of you:

"[Nimitz} proposed that a Marine raider battalion, then training in Samoa, launch hit-and-run raids against Tulagi and other Solomons bases to force the Japanese to proceed with caution."

As weak as US forces were after Pearl, and despite "Germany first", USN kept up offensive--carrier raids, Doolittle raid, Coral Sea, Midway, and the Marine Raiders. All except Midway were pinpricks, but kept the Japanese Navy off balance.

Now chapter 3---
"Regarding appointment of operational command that went to Ghormley -- Nimitz's choice for the job was Adm William Pye,"
For some reason I've missed this before. i know Nimitz wasn't fan of Ghormley but King was, but did not know Pye was a choice. Pye went back to states and effectively sidelined. King and others apparently did not forgive him for Wake.
So question for y'all--based on small sample of evidence to evaluate Pye, would he have been better than Ghormley?

Another question for all of you--all 6 Hammel titles I have are the kindle versions--I have both Europe and Pacific Air War Chronologies, Guadalcanal Starvation Island and Decision at Sea. I also have Carrier Clash and Carrier Strike.
Someone mentioned Guadalcanal Carrier battles but that isn't available on kindle. I came across in a forum somewhere that two I have are combined and updated version of Carrier Battles--he didn't update Starvation Island or Decision at Sea.
Anyone have more insight?
Thank you!

Hi Rory, I actually have a signed copy of "Carrier Strike" (published in 1999) and I have just checked it against my copy of "Guadalcanal: The Carrier Battles".

It seems that "Carrier Strike" is included in the second part of Carrier Battles, from chapter 25 onwards. I have checked the copyright details in "Carrier Strike" which states:

"The original version of this work appeared as half of the author's book "Guadalcanal: The Carrier Battles". 1st ed. c. 1987."

I can't help you in regards to Starvation Island or Decision at Sea but I am not aware of any other of his books covering those topics in later publications.

Rory wrote: ""Regarding appointment of operational command that went to Ghormley -- Nimitz's choice for the job was Adm William Pye,"
For some reason I've missed this before. i know Nimitz wasn't fan of Ghormley but King was, but did not know Pye was a choice. Pye went back to states and effectively sidelined. King and others apparently did not forgive him for Wake.
So question for y'all--based on small sample of evidence to evaluate Pye, would he have been better than Ghormley? "

Possibly, but I've got very little evidence for that. Both Pye and Ghormley were considered smart and capable before the war.
Both had little experience with carriers-- hardly any other admirals did, either-- and that Ghormley was overwhelmed with logistical shortcomings that no one could have overcome. Neither was prepared for a theater command, especially one so far from home and dependent on air power.

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi Rory, I actually have a signed copy of "Carrier Strike" (published in 1999) and I have just checked it against my copy of "Guadalcanal: The Carrier Battles".

It seems that "Carrier Strike" is ..."
Thank you, RIck. Ok, so no loss that I cannot get the Carrier Battles on Kindle since I have the other two.

That seems about right Rory :)

Lee wrote: "Rory wrote: ""Regarding appointment of operational command that went to Ghormley -- Nimitz's choice for the job was Adm William Pye,"
For some reason I've missed this before. i know Nimitz wasn't f..."
Most of what I've read of Ghormley has been critical "but" he was in bad situation. Halsey inherited a mess but brought optimism and determination that I think had been beaten out of Ghormley by August. How they both handled Noumea was very indicative.
Jeffrey Cox in his book also notes difference between Ghormley and Vandergrift regarding Guadalcanal to begin with:
"A rather subtle but important distinction had been exposed. General Vandegrift thought Watchtower could not be started by August 1; Admiral Ghormley thought it could not be started at all. Admiral King, with his belief in making the best of what you have, was conscious of the difference."

Ok, back to Hammel and
Interesting point in chapter 3--"John Sidney McCain, who, like Turner, had studied at the Naval Academy at the same time as Ghormley and Nimitz."
How much did these relationships matter in assigning command? Did it make it easier? And have to admit knowing someone from your class doesn't necessarily mean you will get along 30 years later, especially if you didn't get along 30 years earlier!
On related tangent, someone recently mentioned on Twitter their favorite movie is Mr. Roberts--great movie. Like that and Caine Mutiny, a key theme is pitting the reserve officers vs the "Annapolis" Captains.
Hammels comments on this in the next chapter albeit in relation to Marine officers but same holds true with Naval:
"The young wartime officers were very much a "new breed." By and large, they were the cream of the nation's finest colleges and universities. They came to the Marine Corps as early as 1939, but typically in 1940 and 1941. They were eager and, in most cases, exceedingly bright."
Rapid expansion brought "civilians" into the military and if they were college educated, something we take for granted now, they often clashed with officers and NCO's baked deep in years of "Because that's the way it's always been done" "The Navy way" "The Army way" "The Marine way".
Annapolis and West Point did provide a college education but it was also highly disciplined and steeped in the military tradition vs graduates from Penn State or UCLA ROTC programs who may have found the military too bureaucratic.

Realize this is tangent but always been fascinated with this of young ROTC officers vs the Academy officers in charge, and wished Hammels had dug into this beyond his brief generalization.

Don't you just love how authors slyly slip in shade against Admiral Fletcher?
"Fletcher had a reputation as an amphibious warfare expert, for, as a young line officer, he had been awarded a Medal of Honor for being on the beach at Vera Cruz. (So had all but two officers on that beach.)"

Damn, cut the man down to size. BTW, who were the two officers who didn't get one? Whose boots did they piss on? Ouch!

And y'all thought only President Trump complained about the post office------
"Another request for long-range photo-reconnaissance was fulfilled by General MacArthur's headquarters, which sent another B-17 from New Guinea. The photo coverage was nearly perfect and would have been invaluable had not the photo composites been mailed to an incorrect address. The parcel was delivered to 1st Marine Division in early 1943."

Rory wrote: "And y'all thought only President Trump complained about the post office------
"Another request for long-range photo-reconnaissance was fulfilled by General MacArthur's headquarters, which sent anot..."

I also read that story, quite funny if it wasn't so serious!

Here is another great story from Eric Hammel's book; "Guadalcanal: Starvation Island":

"Late in the morning of September 15, a dugout canoe paddled by one of Capt Martin Clemens's constables put in at Lunga Point and deposited a haggard, beaming Marine aviator, Capt Marion Carl. A veteran of Midway and an aggressive high-scoring fighter ace, Carl was back from the dead five days after being shot down east of Lunga.

The aviator was taken to the Pagoda, the advance command post of 1st Marine Wing, where BGen Roy Geiger made a special point of welcoming him back and needling him with the news that Carl's friendly rival, Capt John Smith, had pulled ahead of Carl's score of kills, sixteen to twelve (Carl had been ahead by one when he was downed). 'What,' Geiger asked, 'are we going to do about that?' After a moment's deep thought, Carl replied, 'Goddammit, General, ground him for five days!' "

Marion Carl:
https://www.historynet.com/the-natura...

https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/...

I came across this online article while searching for some material covering the USMC operations along the Matanikau in 1942:

https://missingmarines.com/2014/10/11...

Another Medal of Honor recipient (posthumously) mentioned by Eric Hammel in his book on Guadalcanal, Lt. Colonel Joe Bauer, USMC:

https://usnamemorialhall.org/index.ph...

Aussie, how does ‘Starvation Island’ compare to other Guadalcanal books you have read?

Its not too bad, its a good general history and very easy to read. Apparently the author utilized over a hundred first hand accounts from participants of the campaign. It may not be as scholarly as some later publications (this edition was published in 1987) but I think it would be a good first book on the subject. It has 14 basic/general maps covering the various land actions covered in the book.

Thanks!

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Here is another great story from Eric Hammel's book; "Guadalcanal: Starvation Island":

"Late in the morning of September 15, a dugout canoe paddled by one of Capt Martin Clemens's constables put i..."

I've come across that story a few different places and funny every time! But like the infamous Wake Island "Send us more Japs" , always struck me as too movie-line perfect to be true.

John,
Note the author wrote first draft when he was 15 in 1962, and published it 25 years later. Most of the sources he lists are 1962 or earlier with only a couple from the 70's. And at least in the Kindle version, there isn't footnotes detailing his sources.
However, as Rick noted, he definitely interviewed hundreds of veterans for this and all his books.
He has details that other books source back to him or no one else has. And Eric Hammel really knows how to tell a story.
I actually came across this book and Eric Hammel when digging through bibliography and notes in Jeffrey Cox's books on Guadalcanal. Morning Star, Midnight Sun: The Guadalcanal-Solomons Naval Campaign of World War II

Eric Hammel's book; "Guadalcanal: Starvation Island" - Details of the American response to a night-time Japanese armoured attack supporting the Japanese offensive across the Matanikau in October 1942:

"At long last, Pfc Jim McClinchy made out a dark shape emerging from across the sandspit. He attempted to locate the murky target in his gunsight, but the battery-operated lamp in the sight was inoperative, rending the device useless. McClinchy spun a pair of wheels, one in each hand, to bring the gun barrel to bear upon the target, then pressed a plunger in the center of the left wheel with the heel of his left hand. Crack! The first round left the gun. McClinchy tracked its red trajectory out across the sandspit until it disappeared. The tank opened with its hull machine gun and the 37mm gun in its turret. Pvt Fred Augustynowicz rammed three more rounds into the smoking breech, but each failed to find the target. The tank was virtually on top of the bunker, so close that McClinchy could no longer track far enough to the right to hit it. Fearful that the tank driver would make a sharp right turn and flatten the emplacement, McClinchy screamed, 'Get out!' and scrambled with the crew into the trench alongside the river that led to the 37mm gun downstream. The tank passed the bunker and continued down the beach until Pfc Joseph Champagne, of M Company, 1st, reached out from his foxhole to stuff a hand grenade between its wheels. The tank wildly skewed about on one track, then stopped. The three crewmen were shot to death as they bailed out.

The 37mm crew ducked back into its bunker. McClinchy lined up on a second dark shadow and fired. There was a tremendous flash only fifty yards away. A hit! Each of three new dark forms creeping from the woods was hit in quick succession.

Jim McClinchy switched to high explosives to completely destroy the three burning tanks, then he switched to canister to discourage any infantry who intended to advance behind the tanks. It was absolutely deafening inside the cramped emplacement. Red-hot shell casings piled up between the gunner and loader, searing their thighs, but both were too wrapped up to notice. The breech block became so hot that Fred Augustynowicz had to use a screwdriver to pry out the spent casings. McClinchy just started ahead, keeping the barrel lined up on targets until the loader hit him on the shoulder to signal that a fresh round was in the breech.

Jim McClinchy accounted for four tanks, Private First Class Champagne got one, and the halftrack-mounted 75mm gun got four. The 37mm gun fifty yards downriver was disabled by gunfire at the outset of the tank attack; one gunner was killed and two were wounded and evacuated. Three additional tanks spotted on the far side of the river were destroyed by del Valle's gunners."

Guadalcanal: Starvation Island by Eric Hammel

"Guadalcanal: Starvation Island" - Of course no history of the Guadalcanal campaign would be complete without mentioning the actions of Sergeant John Basilone who on the night of 24-25 October 1942, during a vigorous enemy assault on the Marines' defensive perimeter, was responsible for a section of machine guns. His "extraordinary heroism and conspicuous gallantry" in keeping his guns in action in the face of heavy attacks contributed greatly to the failure of the Japanese offensive and was recognized by the award of the Medal of Honor:

https://www.military.com/history/mari...

https://www.wearethemighty.com/marine...

"Guadalcanal: Starvation Island" - An account of another gutsy Marine during the fighting around Point Cruz in late October-November 1942:

"Japanese surged from the trees and made directly for two machine guns that had been deployed to anchor C Company's front. Crosby's leaderless platoon back-pedaled through the gun emplacements, temporarily routed. The Japanese recoiled under heavy fire, reformed, hurled hand grenades at the guns, and set up their own machine guns. In minutes, only three Marines were left to man their machine guns; the rest were dead or in retreat.

Almost as soon as Cpl Louis Casamento settled down behind the one machine gun that could still be fired, one of his two companions was injured and lapsed into unconsciousness. Then the second was injured. Despite his protests, he was ordered to the rear by Casamento, who furiously swiveled the single gun, loading it himself despite severe grenade wounds in his right hand. His right ankle was shattered, he had a hole through his right leg, and his right hip, torso, and shoulder had all been hit. He stripped off his shirt during a brief lull to staunch the blood that ran from a hole in his throat. Blood from a wound in his temple ran into his eyes as he aimed. In all, Louis Casamento had suffered fourteen separate wounds. But he held until elements of C Company drove back up the ridge and eventually forced the Japanese back."

The Matanikau Offensive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matanik...