Appointment With Agatha discussion

Talk about spoilers here!

Ready to read!

I started reading last night and I've read the first two stories so far. The Tuesday Night Club reminded me why I initially struggled with AC when I first read her. It was long before I had any experience with all things British and the internet didn't yet exist as the WWW, so things like trifle and hundreds and thousands were completely mystifying to me. I was mixing 'trifle' up with 'tripe' and had not a clue what hundreds and thousands might have been.

Of course, now I know and as soon as I saw the blotter paper, I knew how the death occurred... AND it made sense.

The Idol of Astarte I thought was interesting because AC proved in just a few short pages how an author could obscure the obvious with judicious and talented use of 'atmosphere'. I *knew* whodunnit, but even so, by the end of the re-telling, I found myself focussing on the other outrageous and implausible theories.

I read the first story and I had forgotten how delightful I had previously found it. I think that the whole premise of the first six stories is really good.

MBD, I agree with you. Christie is much more entertaining if the reader has a basic understanding of the culture about which she is writing. It takes a while to get up to speed on many of her references and archetypes.

I love how Christie can get me to see the people around the room so clearly, despite having only short vignettes with which to do it. It was only two years ago that I first read these stories, but I think I enjoyed them more the second time around.

I've just finished The Blue Geranium, and my, I forgot how much I loved this diabolical little story. The use of science and the mystical together to commit murder was just - a lot of fun to read. :)

The other story that struck a chord with me was Motive v Opportunity, but not because the story was so good (it was - science, again!), but because I kept thinking about Conan Doyle. AC goes to great lengths not to offend spiritualists in this one, by having Mr. Petherick repeatedly qualify his feelings about the legitimacy of spiritualism. Doyle had been dead 2 years by the time this collection was published, but I wonder when the story itself was penned, and how much - if at all - he was in her thoughts when she wrote it. I mean, she has no problem sharing her disdain for doctors in these stories, but she seems very cautious in this one. Just stuck with me.

❂ Murder by Death wrote: "I've just finished The Blue Geranium, and my, I forgot how much I loved this diabolical little story. The use of science and the mystical together to commit murder was just - a lot of fun to read. ..."

While my first thoughts went to ACD, too, Christie herself wrote stories about the supernatural - and they are really good. (Perfect for Halloween Bingo, in fact.)
It's just that she is so well-known for her detectives and mysteries that the stories in The Last Seance and The Hound of Death usually get forgotten.

❂ Murder by Death wrote: "I started reading last night and I've read the first two stories so far. The Tuesday Night Club reminded me why I initially struggled with AC when I first read her. It was long before I had any exp..."

LoL. Trifle and tripe would have quite interesting consequences.
That reminds me of that episode of Friends where Rachel(?) uses minced beef in a trifle. LoL.

I find the use of recipes and mentions of ingredients etc. really interesting. For example, the mention of the bowl of cornflour. It took some Googling to find out it apparently was once a common remedy for an upset stomach.

❂ Murder by Death wrote: "Motive v Opportunity ... Doyle had been dead 2 years by the time this collection was published, but I wonder when the story itself was penned"

All of Christie's short stories were first published individually in magazines -- "Motive vs. Opportunity" in both the UK and the U.S. first in 1928 ( https://agathachristie.fandom.com/wik... ), so when ACD was still alive. Even though Christie published a number of stories with supernatural elements, I do think ACD's prominence and his advocacy for spiritualism in the final years of his life must have had an impact. It can't be a coincidence that so many mystery writers picked up the topic just around that time. Even Sayers ("Strong Poison" dates from 1930) -- and I've come across it in a number of recently "unburied" books by other Golden Age writers as well. (Both pro and con, incidentally.) And Christie herself, of course, also returned to it in "The Sittaford Mystery" (first published 1931).

The first story definitely threw out some terms I wasn't familiar. I still enjoyed the story, but I didn't even know hundreds and thousands was something until Miss Marple began her explanation.

Don't open the spoiler tag unless you have read ALL of the Poirot novels because I'm going to talk about something that may spoil one of the books for you! I don't even want to say which story/book because that could potentially be a spoiler.

(view spoiler)[ I am always just fascinated by how Christie can take ideas/elements in a short story and then flesh them out to create a full length novel, as she did in Bloodstained Pavement, which has such close connections to Evil Under the Sun, and also to Triangle at Rhodes. Somehow even when she reuses material, she manages to keep it fresh with her use of perspective, or changing up the victim/setting/murderer in some fashion. (hide spoiler)]

I read this collection fairly recently, but it is making an even better impression on me this time around.

I love Sir Henry.

Christine PNW wrote: "Don't open the spoiler tag unless you have read ALL of the Poirot novels because I'm going to talk about something that may spoil one of the books for you! I don't even want to say which story/book..."

Absolutely!! That is what is striking me about re-reading the short stories, too. That and that she also recycles names. The names thing is really confusing for me.

Historically speaking, spiritualism is really big in the UK in the 1920s, which is sort of a natural response to the death rate in the Great War.

It pops up in all sorts of authors, including Kipling, who wrote a very angry poem about a seance where a medium pretended to get in touch with his late son. (His wife was comforted. He was furious.)

Susanna - Censored by GoodReads wrote: "Historically speaking, spiritualism is really big in the UK in the 1920s, which is sort of a natural response to the death rate in the Great War.

It pops up in all sorts of authors, including Kipl..."

It was. I can't remember whether I came across it in an ACD bio or elsewhere but while ACD was an advocate, he certainly was not the only "celebrity" who also was a spiritualist. What I mean is, while it pops up all over the GA mystery genre at that time, it really was more of a reflection of society than a literary "trope".

I want to mention this specific quote from Sir Henry:

“You say crime goes unpunished; but does it? Unpunished by the law perhaps; but cause and effect works outside the law. To say that every crime brings its own punishment is by way of being a platitude, and yet in my opinion nothing can be truer.”

from The Four Suspects, because I feel like this is a recurring theme in Christie that we can talk about as we read her books. I can think of several places that the idea of extra-judicial or divine justice has already come up in the short stories we have read, including The Idol of Astarte and The Mystery of Hunter's Lodge.

It's a particularly interesting quote from the mouth of the former head of Scotland Yard which is exclusively concerned with "systemic" justice.

Christine PNW wrote: "It's a particularly interesting quote from the mouth of the former head of Scotland Yard which is exclusively concerned with "systemic" justice."

That absolutely is one of the recurring theme throughout her work.

Also, as mentioned on the other thread, The Four Suspects made me laugh because it seems to contain the original ideas for two other stories (view spoiler)[ Ordeal by Innocence and, PtF - tho granted the only thing that lead me to PtF was that Agatha conjured up a secret society in Germany as the centre of an international conspiracy/thriller (hide spoiler)].

BrokenTune wrote: "Christine PNW wrote: "It's a particularly interesting quote from the mouth of the former head of Scotland Yard which is exclusively concerned with "systemic" justice."

That absolutely is one of th..."

(view spoiler)[I definitely got the Ordeal by Innocence connection - especially from the quote that I mention above. Even the title sort of references the concept. I also could see it in Appointment with Death, which also pre-occupies itself with the possible (further) stunting of the lives of all of the Boynton children if the true culprit isn't identified.

I admit, though, that I missed the PtF connection, which is a good catch! (hide spoiler)]

I'm just finishing my rerun of the collection, listening to the final two stories. I reviewed it long ago; my review now lives HERE (though this isn't where I posted it first -- nor incidentally was BL). What an enjoyable collection this is ... I'm really growing fonder of it with every time I'm revisiting it!

I finished reading Saturday - but yesterday was our first nice day, so it was spent away from the keyboard. My full review is here. The TL;DR version though, is that I thoroughly enjoyed this re-read. I like Miss Marple so much better the small doses, when she doesn't play a constant part in the story. :)

Favourites: Blue Geranium and for its solution mostly, Motive vs. Opportunity. Least favorite: The last one, Death by Drowning.

I have a question about 'The Blood-stained Pavement'

Before our artist narrator sees the blood nn the pavement she makes this observation:

'I gathered that the bathing party had returned safely, because two bathing dresses, a scarlet one and a dark blue one, were hanging from the balcony, drying in the sun.'

Am I wrong in thinking that 'bathing dress' refers only to something worn by a woman?

If these are women's swimming things, why are there two of them? Shouldn't the blue one belong to the murdered wie and shouldn't it still be on her corpse in the water?

Mike wrote: "I have a question about 'The Blood-stained Pavement'

Before our artist narrator sees the blood nn the pavement she makes this observation:

'I gathered that the bathing party had returned safely, ..."

No, the scarlet one belongs to the murdered wife - that's why they didn't notice the blood; it blended with the color of the suit. But then the other woman had to go back and change clothes to wear what the dead woman was wearing, so that it would appear the dead woman *did* return with them.

All of which is to say I'm not sure if the dark blue bathing dress refers to the husband's, or to the woman-who-wasn't-murdered. Did women have multiple bathing costumes in that day? She would have had to, because she was killed in the water there with her bathing costume on, but the 'other' woman would have had to have been seen farther down the coast wearing the same costume for the deception to work. I think. It wasn't one of my favourites, so I'm already fuzzy on the details.

❂ Murder by Death wrote: "Am I wrong in thinking that 'bathing dress' refers only to something worn by a woman?"

I think that it is likely that women of that class who went on long summer holidays probably had multiple bathing dresses (or what we would call bathing suits) in different colors/patterns since they would have spent a lot of time on the beach and no self-respecting wealthy woman would wear the same thing every day.

I would think that the murderer would have had matching or very similar bathing costumes so that she could properly impersonate her victim.

Just out of curiosity, I googled "bathing dress 1920s" and came up with this fun image:



Since these really aren't "dresses," I wonder if the "dress" refers more generally to getting "dressed" and less specifically to the one piece skirted clothing item worn by women. In that case, it could also refer to a men's suit. However, the picture only shows women, so...

But that's a good question!

Christine PNW wrote: "❂ Murder by Death wrote: "Am I wrong in thinking that 'bathing dress' refers only to something worn by a woman?"

I think that it is likely that women of that class who went on long summer holidays..."

I think the "dress" part may be a hangover from the earlier garments that were actual dresses worn by ladies - how they didn't drown, I don't know. Those dresses "originally included ankle length dresses, long pants, and long sleeves. Around the 1880s the sleeves and hemlines of these dresses were shortened to improve range of motion and general comfort." (Wikipedia)

BrokenTune wrote: "Those dresses "originally included ankle length dresses, long pants, and long sleeves. Around the 1880s the sleeves and hemlines of these dresses were shortened to improve range of motion and general comfort."."

Though this would explain how they were able to go bathing in the UK at all without instantly freezing to death. Women were wearing the 19th century version of a wet suit. :D

❂ Murder by Death wrote: "BrokenTune wrote: "Those dresses "originally included ankle length dresses, long pants, and long sleeves. Around the 1880s the sleeves and hemlines of these dresses were shortened to improve range ..."

I love these dresses!

BrokenTune wrote: "Christine PNW wrote: "❂ Murder by Death wrote: "Am I wrong in thinking that 'bathing dress' refers only to something worn by a woman?"

I think that it is likely that women of that class who went o..."

I think 'dress' was a way of describing clothes linked to an occaision, regardless of whether it's for men or women - evening dress for example.

Mike wrote: "I think 'dress' was a way of describing clothes linked to an occaision, regardless of whether it's for men or women - evening dress for example."

Or "fancy dress" for costume.

I've also seen references from the same era to "bathing costumes," so I think we're all on the right track.

A brief history of bathing Costumes


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&r...

As I got this from my library a few days ago, I finished it today, and thought the stories were differently. The Blue Geranium was well-known to me, and I guessed about Motive vs Opportunity, so that was only so-so. I got a bit enervated with Miss Marple always being the clever one. Looking forward to Poirot and others! :)

I finished this awhile ago and I was so impressed with Christie's ability to deal with the same type of problems yet she finds a different way to present the mysteries to make them almost "new" to the reader. I loved this compilation !

It's a fun little collection.