The Sword and Laser discussion

I'm at about the 25% mark for this book. Got a late start as I only began yesterday. Went looking at the established threads and don't see one for general discussion. Shall we have one here? Spoiler protect for those not as far along and also email digest readers.

Anyhoo, at about the quarter mark this book feels like a mashup between Seanan McGuire's series that starts with Every Heart a Doorway and Lovecraft Country. There's the Doors with a capital D, that appear intermittently and are of tremendous appeal to the people able to go through them. Locke is an apparently benevolent man living in a vast mansion in rural New England, but his actions are fairly self-serving and evil to those he exploits. I get the distinct feeling that there is a much greater evil behind his actions. Certainly he seems to (view spoiler)[know about the Doors and took action to destroy one. (hide spoiler)] The MC is of indeterminate race, not black as in Lovecraft Country but still subject to discrimination based on skin color.

The affinity to books and the poetic prose reminds me of Bradbury and his love of libraries.

As for Locke, every time I see his name I wonder if Hobbes might be in the Society, or if there might be a Leviathan nearby...

John (Taloni) wrote: "As for Locke, every time I see his name I wonder if Hobbes might be in the Society, or if there might be a Leviathan nearby..."

I picture Locke as bald and chasing smoke monsters 😉

Tassie Dave wrote: "John (Taloni) wrote: "As for Locke, every time I see his name I wonder if Hobbes might be in the Society, or if there might be a Leviathan nearby..."

I picture Locke as bald and chasing smoke mons..."

I picture & Key.

Tassie Dave wrote: "I picture Locke as bald and chasing smoke monsters"

What's that in reference to? I feel so Lost!

Hitting the 33% mark now. Seems fairly clear that the woman in the book (view spoiler)[is January's mother. (hide spoiler)] Either that or there is some fabulous misdirect going on.

Also, I keep mixing up the storylines. When January (view spoiler)[gets put in the asylum, my first thought was "but she already got away from the farm." (hide spoiler)]

The "you must read this book" bit is a little too forced for me, and made me flash on The Butterfly Effect. (Great name, it pulled me in, disappointing movie.)

Also, as someone who grew up in Suburban Boston where some of the children of the elite condescended to go to the local high school before trundling off to the Ivy League, you know, so they could spend some time among us unwashed...the scenes with the rich and powerful are simultaneously a trope and all too real. This group might pretend to like you, even allow you to socialize on the outskirts, but you would never be accepted.

When January is offered (view spoiler)[membership in the Society, my first thought was that she should have accepted, then worked to take it down from within. But the power traders in that group would never let her have enough influence to do so. They would simply have co-opted her. (hide spoiler)]

Nice series of reveals at about the 50% mark. (view spoiler)[Imagine having a book written just for you! So this book might be less "lost princess taking her rightful role" and more rescue mission. Will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

Dad still doesn't jibe tho. From madly in love with his wife, then desperately holding on to his daughter to save her, to the uninterested father we see in the first half? Something is missing. Perhaps the rest of the book will reveal it, or perhaps this is one of those necessary lumps the author will ask us to swallow in order to get to the rest of the book. (hide spoiler)]

Here is my review:

4.5 stars. The writing here is something special. There are a large number of similes and metaphors, which could easily be tiring, but they are all apt and enhance the book’s atmosphere. The plot is a page-turner, and the book-within-a-book was well-handled. The characters were extremely well-written; they were developed with just enough backstory to have their actions make sense. The only fault is that the magic system is too soft for my tastes – it would have enhanced the plot if it had been explored in greater detail.

Some questions I have, spoilers for the whole book: (view spoiler)[

In Chapter 6, when January escapes to the cabin, it says: "I was somewhere else for a while. I don't know where, exactly, but it felt like another kind of Threshold..." Do you think this is related to an actual Threshold, or just semi-consciousness resulting from her injuries and exhaustion?

In Chapter Five (not 5) Why didn't Ade come through the door with Yule and January? And why did Yule think this: "I remember feeling a distant, selfish relief, because by then I knew: Ade had not come through the door with us."

Yule's last note to January in the book was DO NOT TRUST. Do you think this means don't trust anybody (except Jane) or that he had run out of time and he was going to write some specific people?

In Chapter 10, January strongly implies to Ilvane that she can open doors. Why? Just to gloat? Surely she knows it is key information that her enemies could benefit from. It seems to me an awful idea to reveal that.

Any speculations as to what rules govern how difficult doors are for January to open or close? The one from Brattleboro to the cabin took a lot out of her, because there was no natural rift. Reopening the rift from Arcadia to Earth was almost costless, because there was a natural rift. She incurred a moderate cost locking the bathroom door with Ilvane inside. And what cost was there to opening the final rift from Earth to Nin?

Why didn't January just kill Ilvane? She had the opportunity to at least twice. Was it just lack of a killer instinct/not wanting to be a murderess? I couldn't see any other reason.

After January went to her mother's house to meet Lizzie, why did she rush to the location of the gate she discovered when she was 7? She was saying she didn't want to be "too late" - for what? The door had been closed long ago. There was nothing to indicate Locke could have closed it so permanently January's abilities wouldn't be able to reopen it.

What happened to January's hip? Was she shot there?

My favorite quote from the book, which I think explains the evils of modern society quite well: "I wonder sometimes how much evil is permitted to run unchecked simply because it would be rude to interrupt it."

(hide spoiler)]

I finished the book and would have given it a four star, as I liked the characters and the main story, though there were some minor issues that undermined it main point.

But, the cutting section really bothered me. I have relations who had issues with cutting and this scene could easily be used by real people to justify their cutting. There really should have been a warning and a hotline number on the first page to let people know this is fantasy and cutting yourself will NOT open doors.

Can we please spoiler protect as I requested in the first post? I've read that section, but others may not have.

My point was that people should know that will happen in the book. There is no other reference as to what actually happened, so it is not much of a spoiler. I felt triggered, as I know someone close it happened to.

@Ryan
(view spoiler)[ I think she was just unconscious, and she was saying it was like the threshold.

Ade was in the rear (aft?) of the boat, which was cut in half when the door closed.

I don't think much she did towards the end made sense. Why write the letter to Locke? Why not go to the other door when she knew her door may be known? I think the author wanted the confrontation to happen, so her errors became the reason.
(hide spoiler)]

Just finished and *wow* that was a killer ending! I expected some lame setup for a trilogy but nope, satisfying ending. Altho I will gladly read a sequel. some parts subverted traditional narrative structure but in a way that worked. As for the trope "everyone is the hero of their own story," nailed that one.

@ Ryan

Agreed on your comment regarding the magic system. It was a bit too soft and could have used more backstory to make it more interesting.

*Spoiler Alert*
What I enjoyed most about the story was the way Harrow developed several character stories that didn't seem connected in any way until about 75% of the way in. At that point, I thought, how did I miss this?

@Richard (view spoiler)[The door closed as they were en route? Why? (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[ From what Locke indicated, and what her father saw before he passed out, I think Locke knew about Ade and was up there to follow the lead. They just happened to destroy the door when the boat arrived. Also, her mother indicated that she wished January had been in her arms when the boat crashed, so she wouldn't have been alone. (hide spoiler)]

Richard wrote: "I finished the book and would have given it a four star, as I liked the characters and the main story, though there were some minor issues that undermined it main point.

But, the cutting section r..."

That ruined it for me. I already had a hard time with what happened to Bad. I don’t think I will be finishing it.

Some news about Bad: (view spoiler)[He's alive. (hide spoiler)]

I'm actually very glad that there was no warning about (view spoiler)[ the cutting scene in the asylum (hide spoiler)], as I probably would have either skipped it altogether or spent the first part anxiously waiting for that scene, and instead I really enjoyed the book.

I agree that I would have liked more info on the magic system - it reminded me a lot of the Language in The Invisible Library series, and so without more detail I sometimes found it difficult to keep the magic system in this world separate in my head. That said, I would be interested to read another story set in this world to see how the magic system was fleshed out.

(view spoiler)[ I would also have liked more information about the Threshold and how it worked - I think it would have made Ade's failure to come through the Threshold more understandable if I'd understood better how transport between worlds actually worked, though I agree that it seems the door closed when they were partway through (hide spoiler)].

@John, thanks for the thread. I'm about 25%-29% of the way through and I was thinking about Lemming it before I read your post, including the spoilers. I think I now know just enough of the story to keep me interested.
So far, I feel like the build up in chapter 1 of "there are thousands of doors to elsewhere" has been a little misleading. I was expecting more fantasy and less introspective. Now after reading a couple of spoilers there I think I have enough hints to see where the story is heading and I want to continue reading to see if I'm right. Thanks again!

Ryan wrote: "Some questions I have, spoilers for the whole book:"

RE: Threshold
(view spoiler)[My impression was that there is a transitional space between worlds, not unlike the Mirror Bridges in The Magicians. I think this was reinforced in the final confrontation with Lock where he got "lost" in between her door and Nin. At least that was my understanding; I don't think he just got dumped back on earth given that January has set herself up as his heir in the epilogue. (hide spoiler)]

Regarding Bad, the author addresses pressing dog related questions here.

bit of a tangent: Edwardian dress. POCKETS?!

There are several points (early on, I'm about 70 pages in) when it is mentioned that January tucks things into her skirts. books as well as other things. And I feel like I've heard that phrase enough for it to be a trope without ever thinking about it further (like books I used to read as a kid, maybe Anne of Greene Gables or that style of book) This only JUST occurred to me.
Did Edwardian dresses have lots of secret pockets in the skirts??!!! Where are these things being tucked? If there were no pocket, it would just fall to the floor when she stood up. And we're not even talking little tiny pockets either. A book is a pretty significant object to be tucked away, unnoticed in a skirt. So, now I'm imagining that all the old fashioned fluffy skirts were secretly like cargo pants under there. There hasn't been decent pockets in women's dresses for at least the last hundred years. Did we have them and lose them when dresses got smaller and more form-fitting?

Regarding pockets: http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles...

Katie wrote: "bit of a tangent: Edwardian dress. POCKETS?!

There are several points (early on, I'm about 70 pages in) when it is mentioned that January tucks things into her skirts. books as well as other thing..."

Purses and clutches are the modern evolution ye olde timey pockets. Pockets were pouches worn inside a skirt or dress and accessed via a slit in the material. Maybe that’s what they’re talking about.

(I know this because my m-i-l is into fashion and is a dollmaker. Eventually you run out of things to talk about over dinner.)

Had an uncomfortable insight a few days after finishing and it goes something like this: Was Locke right? (view spoiler)[ The book is set mostly in the early 1900s. January is fighting to keep the Doors open and at the end is reopening them. Change is good, is her point of view.

In real-life, ten years later we have WWI, followed two decades with WWI. After that the atomic bomb, the Cold War, Vietnam, untold millions killed in repressive regimes.

The political situation Locke sought was order above all else. Empires taking over less technological areas of the world and imposing their culture on them. He worried about the effect change would have.

Was his way worse? Looking at the ghastly death toll of the 20th Century, would his way have spared more lives? (hide spoiler)]

John (Taloni) wrote: "Had an uncomfortable insight a few days after finishing and it goes something like this: Was Locke right? The book is set mostly in the early 1900s. January is fighting to keep the Doors open and ..."

My take on Locke is that he is a gilded age monster!

John (Taloni) wrote: "Had an uncomfortable insight a few days after finishing and it goes something like this: Was Locke right? "

Well, (view spoiler)[ I suppose the act of a single person, like Gavrilo Princip killing the Archduke Franz Ferdinand was the kind of thing that you could attribute to one guy sneaking through a door in the backwoods of Serbia or something. But really the cause of WWI was the acts of the empires involved - alliances, political and military brinkmanship, colonial competition, etc. The empires were just as liable to be the cause of some calamity as some anarchist or worker's movement. (hide spoiler)]

In general, change has led to an overall improvement in the human condition, numerous historical mishaps notwithstanding. See Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress

Katie wrote: "bit of a tangent: Edwardian dress. POCKETS?!

There are several points (early on, I'm about 70 pages in) when it is mentioned that January tucks things into her skirts. books as well as other thing..."

Unless there is a reveal that her own world is not our world (which could happen, I mean, I'm only halfway through) I think there are so many layers that she's tucking it into an underwaistband, which would keep it close to her skin but secure. Maybe a corset or other such undergarment a girl would wear prior to a corset.

John (Taloni) wrote: "Had an uncomfortable insight a few days after finishing and it goes something like this: Was Locke right? The book is set mostly in the early 1900s. January is fighting to keep the Doors open and ..."

Another take on this (view spoiler)[ was in one of Heinlein's late World As Myth books. In there, there's a council that intervenes in the past, trying to eliminate certain terrible events. In one case, they kill Hitler because what could be worse than WW2, the Holocaust, etc?

They jump forward in that timeline and the Earth is lifeless, having suffered a massive global nuclear war.

(hide spoiler)]

^ Yep, and on that note, there could be a sequel (please, a sequel!) in which, just spitballing here (view spoiler)[January and her team take on the remainder of the Society. Locke is rescued, natch, need a villain. The Society are the ones who cause WWI, WWII, etc, in the name of Empire. Germany is their chosen empire this time, but it fails due to Locke's lack of empathy and willingness to sacrifice others. In Japan the rise of a militaristic cabal contrary to the wishes of the majority of its people. With January et al opposing them all the way. (hide spoiler)]

Rick wrote: "John (Taloni) wrote: "Had an uncomfortable insight a few days after finishing and it goes something like this: Was Locke right? The book is set mostly in the early 1900s. January is fighting to kee..."

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