Georgette Heyer Fans discussion

Hi I think we are all more than ready to start!

This year has been such a horrible year, so I am more than ready to indulge in my favourite form of escapism - reading Heyer.

This is the first Heyer I read in its entirety, when I was around 11 years old. & I still own my original copy. It is now held together with sellotape, so lets hope it lasts another read!

Here it is! It is an old Pan paperback, I will have read it at least 35 times!

Will this be anyone's first read?

What format are you using.

There are many free copies available online. I have read here before.

https://digital.library.upenn.edu/wom...

No spoilers in this thread please - or use spoiler tags. We don't want to spoil a first read for anyone. :)

I haven't re-read this in several years, so I'm looking forward to renewing my acquaintance with Jack, Diana, et al
This time around I'll be reading this trade paperback:


btw, I really dislike that cover...

The first time I read it, way back in the '60s, I had this Bantam edition:

Not necessarily accurate for the clothing, but definitely romantic!

All right, I am so ready to start reading this book! May or may not have been going through Heyer - withdrawl.

This is one of the last Heyer books that I have read - no idea why I waited so long, but I did not read it until 2016.

This will be only my second read, and I will be reading either a free e-version from Project Gutenberg:

or the free version I got through Amazon:

Either way, I am looking forward to seeing everyone's covers, as these are two standard public domain covers and not very pleasing at all.

My copy is a Harlequin paperback from the 1980s with a particularly weird cover--a photograph of a misty heath with two tiny men painted onto it, dueling with both sword and pistol simultaneously, and a woman behind them swooning against a carriage. Deeply silly.

I haven't reread this one for perhaps thirty years and remember it only vaguely.

Abigail wrote: "My copy is a Harlequin paperback from the 1980s with a particularly weird cover--a photograph of a misty heath with two tiny men painted onto it, dueling with both sword and pistol simultaneously, ..."

That cover sounds awesome, Abigail!

The awkward combination of media makes it a little disconcerting. This was of course before photoshop. The cover designer would have done better to commission a painting.

I am particularly struck by the hats. . In profile the duellists look rather Zorro!

I've read it many times and this time will use one of the free online copies.
Love the action in Rosina's cover!

ETA: I forgot I already have the free amazon copy on my Kindle.

That's the one, Rosina! Very Zorro.

My second read (after four years). Back then it went to my absolute favourite novels. I have the feeling it will stay there ;-) [I had finished yesterday "Middlemarch" and decided I don't want to wait two days before going into Heyer's word. And it is delicious!]

I am reading the only one edition I have: . I don't think it is a good cover, but there are much worse, as I see.

I am enjoying this very much - as Carol says, a horrible year, so I jumped the gun a bit. I’ve only read it once before, with the group, and thought it was great fun, and very impressive for a 17-year -old writing her first novel!

I have a Scribd subscription, and have this e-book , with an attractive painting I can’t quite make out, and this audiobook . There were a couple audiobooks to choose from, but I like this actor’s voice - although he makes Lavinia sound rather (view spoiler)[hysterical in some scenes (which I guess is fair). (hide spoiler)] Not sure if that’s a spoiler, as the scenes I refer to come fairly early in the book, but I’m sure we will discuss!

I started yesterday, and Lavinia is the kind of character I absolutely loathe reading about. I just have zero tolerance for the nervy type so popular in British fiction before the 1970s. The writing style has a bit of the over-stylization of The Masqueraders, which I like better because I like the characters better.

My snarky side is wondering whether the dukes of Andover intermarried with the dukes of Sale because of the eyebrows. (Though technically it would be with the family of the Duke of Sale's mother, I suppose.) And I notice that the wicked seducer Markham's father Jim appears here, along with a few other familiar-sounding names from the other books.

Abigail wrote: "My snarky side is wondering whether the dukes of Andover intermarried with the dukes of Sale because of the eyebrows."

Dukes of Salford, surely? It's Gilly who is Duke of Sale.

Sorry, yes, I should have checked.

Susan in NC wrote: "...I can’t quite make out, and this audiobook The Black Moth by Georgette Heyer . There were a couple audiobooks to choose from, but I like this actor’s voice..."

Hi Susan, I listened to that edition of the audio book and thoroughly enjoyed it.

This is a first-time read for me and I'm looking forward to it. I'll probably read it online, but I did want to throw a little love to one of the brown Pan covers, which never seem to be anyone's favorite. Unfortunately, I can't find this edition on Goodreads. It shows a man and a young woman in a brown, autumnal-looking forest. He's tying a gag around her mouth. She's in a gray dress that shimmers a bit. To me it's very atmospheric.

I'm so looking forward to getting back to the reads. I've been reading kindle books lately so I'm going to read my paperback of this one. I've missed the feel of an actual book in my hand and turning real pages manually :)
My edition is an old Pan edition. Can't find the picture here. One of those in two colours with the picture almost as a cameo. I like it.

Teresa wrote: "I'm so looking forward to getting back to the reads. I've been reading kindle books lately so I'm going to read my paperback of this one. I've missed the feel of an actual book in my hand and turni..."

I have the same edition, I think ( ), and it's still in good condition, as it's not one of my favourites. (at least, not exactly that edition - mine has a slightly different layout of title and author, and the Pan symbol in the top right, not left)

When reading a real book, I catch myself looking in the top left hand corner, if I want to know the time ...

Sheila (in LA) wrote: "This is a first-time read for me and I'm looking forward to it. I'll probably read it online, but I did want to throw a little love to one of the brown Pan covers, which never seem to be anyone's f..."

Sheila, is it this one?

Rosina wrote: "When reading a real book, I catch myself looking in the top left hand corner, if I want to know the time..."

I have tapped a word on the page of a print book, trying to look it up in the dictionary. It did not work. haha!

Ha ha!! Love it!!!!

Rosina wrote: "Teresa wrote: "I'm so looking forward to getting back to the reads. I've been reading kindle books lately so I'm going to read my paperback of this one. I've missed the feel of an actual book in my..."

Did that pic come up for you here Rosina? I couldn't find it.

The horse seems very upset about the whole thing—maybe she’s screeching.

Yes, Critterbee, that’s it! Thank you...

I have tapped a word on the page of a print book, trying to look it up in the dictionary. It did not work. haha!

I have done this!

ShanDizzy wrote: "Susan in NC wrote: "...I can’t quite make out, and this audiobook The Black Moth by Georgette Heyer . There were a couple audiobooks to choose from, but I like this actor’s voice..."

Hi Susan, I l..."

Hey, there, Shannon! Be safe with Sally heading possibly your way! I’m glad you enjoyed this audiobook. I thought he had a nice voice - but don’t you think Lavinia came across as rather unbalanced? Yikes!

Sheila (in LA) wrote: "This is a first-time read for me and I'm looking forward to it. I'll probably read it online, but I did want to throw a little love to one of the brown Pan covers, which never seem to be anyone's f..."

I added it -

It is a really striking cover

Lavinia comes off as unbalanced on the page as well!

Yes!! Lavinia got on my nerves!!

Ok, glad I’m not the only one! The way she and Tracy kept telling other characters the family was mad, ‘that’s just the way we are’ - I guess it’s like, in the wise words of Maya Angelou, when someone tells you who they are, believe them!

Abigail wrote: "Lavinia comes off as unbalanced on the page as well!"

I was thinking ‘flighty’, but unbalanced describes it better. Did she tone down these tendencies to ‘catch’ Richard in the first place? I imagine so, much as he wasn’t entirely honest with her.

Lavinia is 'extra'

I like how each character is introduced in a separate chapter. GH was always good at creating distinctive/memorable characters but yes, Lavinia is a bit much.

Julie wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Lavinia comes off as unbalanced on the page as well!"

I was thinking ‘flighty’, but unbalanced describes it better. Did she tone down these tendencies to ‘catch’ Richard in the fir..."

Good point - I’d have to think she did, unless he just fell in love at first sight, in which case he might have been willing to overlook any personality flaws.

Jack is an armed robber. I might not have minded about that when I was extremely young, but find it rather off-putting nowadays, especially considering that everyone is far more outraged at cheating at cards than at demanding money at the point of a gun.

Fantasy world, not real world?

I don't think he murdered anyone though did he? For some reason I thought it was tomorrow it was starting so now I'm behind.

You're not behind Teresa! I have not started yet, might start tonight, and if not tonight, tomorrow after work

Rosina wrote: "Jack is an armed robber. I might not have minded about that when I was extremely young, but find it rather off-putting nowadays, especially considering that everyone is far more outraged at cheatin..."

I don't mind that too much, as Heyer is my idea of enjoyable, fantastical fiction. Would I feel sympathetic in real life about an armed robber today? Highly unlikely, but this is fiction, and I can suspend my disbelief and enjoy the story.

The Black Moth is set in the real world, not a fantasy world - he doesn't actually turn into a moth when the moon is full.

And armed robbery is a serious offence, even if he's been lucky enough not to have to kill someone to escape capture. I know it's shown as all right, because Mr Fudby is not from the top drawer, and is unkind to his clerk, but I assume Jack didn't know his victim was going to be a rather unpleasant character before he stopped the carriage - it might have been an old man with a weak heart, or the victim could suffer from PTSD for the rest of their lives, unable to travel because of the fear of being held up.

Rosina wrote: "The Black Moth is set in the real world, not a fantasy world - he doesn't actually turn into a moth when the moon is full.

And armed robbery is a serious offence, even if he's been lucky enough n..."

Fantasy doesn't have to have 'other-worldly' elements. Or you could say that GH was telling an 'escapist adventure tale'. The take-away is the same: the reader is not supposed to take it too seriously.
(btw--I've always understood the title to refer to Tracy Belmanoir, Duke of Andover)

Andover is the Black Moth - it's not a very heroic nickname for a highwayman, unless of course he regularly leaves holes in one's clothes.

GH's earliest books have the escapist attitude towards crime, with her heroes being highwaymen, or smugglers (free-traders!) and still supposed to be heroic. I think though we are entitled to question this aspect of dubious morality, just as we would question racist attitudes, or Andover's behaviour.

I don't get as serious as that about these books. I read for enjoyment. They were also written at a time when things were looked at differently, I'm not saying correctly but differently. That has to be taken into account when reading older books.

For me, Heyer's stories are fantastical. This story is not biographical or a historic account, it is historical fiction with invented characters.

I love losing myself in Heyer's books, and living the fantasy of her characters. And I love a good swashbuckling adventure now and again, with a rascally hero.

When reading fiction it must be remembered that fiction describes imaginary events and people that are invented and untrue. That goes for both modern/contemporary and that which is written many years previous when society was different from present day. Historical fiction may be based on true events and people, but often is purely fictitious.

Here's a thought to consider when critiquing novels written in earlier years - every hour we spend agonizing over societal crimes of the past, we should probably allow a minute or two to wonder what we’re doing now that will be similarly condemned a hundred years hence.

On a lighter note, what I can't help wondering when reading this, particularly in relation to the hysterical Lavinia, is did Georgette Heyer actually know somebody that she based this character on, or was she purely something from Georgette's imagination!

The same thought sometimes comes to my mind in relation to some of the male characters.

If her characters are based on people she knew, even loosely, I can't help thinking she'd have had an entertaining life! :)

don't mind that too much, as Heyer is my idea of enjoyable, fantastical fiction. Would I feel sympathetic in real life about an armed robber today? Highly unlikely, but this is fiction, and I can suspend my disbelief and enjoy the story.

this, and what Critterbee said just above.

there are some major issues in a few of her books - the anti-Semitism in The Grand Sophy, Sherry boxing Hero's ears, some things are just wrong. but I can recognize that and still enjoy the rest of the story.

Jackie wrote: " don't mind that too much, as Heyer is my idea of enjoyable, fantastical fiction. Would I feel sympathetic in real life about an armed robber today? Highly unlikely, but this is fiction, and I can ..."

Those things occur in many books written during that period. Yes, they are wrong today, but then they were more the norm and accepted. You could say the same of modern/contemporary fiction that is often full of graphic sex, murder, and swearing, to name a few. My belief is if you find the content of a book offensive, don't read it.

I am not criticising the general escapist tone of the book. It is a wonderful first novel, written when Heyer was extremely young.

I do find Jack as hero a trifle off-putting, because he robs people for fun, to give himself something to do while he sulks about being wrongly accused of cheating at cards (and he isn't targetting those who accuse him, or are actually guilty, but strangers of a lower social standing).