Koli--flash group discussion

I never quite know how to do this... maybe say how far you are in the book, and then spoiler the rest of what you are typing, so people who like peeking but aren't done can share up to that point?

Example:

I'm at chapter 4/ 33%/ page 45 and omg, I can't believe (view spoiler)[ nothing. I have nothing to say because I haven't read it. :D (hide spoiler)]

For those interested an hour long interview with Carey about the book with a lot of detail. For example explains why he set the opening where he did and why Mythen Rood looks like it does. Unfortunately on facebook but if you scroll down the interview is dated April 16: https://www.facebook.com/MRCareyAutho...

starting cap 8
I find the Ramparts - Vennastin(view spoiler)[ in just one family also fishy , Spinner. They keep the implants for themselves or something like that?(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Mitticus--yes!

I'm probably at about chapter 8 too, with the (view spoiler)[ travelling doctor. What the heck?! Can you believe her? She's totally throwing a social bomb into the community and then leaving. (hide spoiler)]

Mitticus, I’m at chapter 17, and I fully agree with you.
Carol, I think I’m at the same point as you, actually.

ok, was that a wth moment or what? I had to pause and think about that. (view spoiler)[On the one hand, the rebel/individualist/GenX-er in me is all "down with the establishment." On the other, that's really not my call to make for another community that really isn't particularly abusive, and definitely not involving a 16 year old kid, who aren't known to be particularly mature. (hide spoiler)]

The viewpoint & choices made by Koli & his friends make sense when it's drawn within the framework of what we know & our current society.

Yet, I'm not sure if they would act the way they do within the framework of this world. It's different from our day to day lives and there's a close knit sense of community driven responsibilities that are instilled into them at a young age.

I admit I tried to just be in the story world while listening to the book and didn't poke at it until I finished. =)

I like it enough not to poke too badly. But the doctor (view spoiler)[ did the kind of thing that wouldn't be welcomed back to a community. (hide spoiler)]

Agreed. (view spoiler)[ Though, she was drunk and she doesn't like people. lol

I like that disparity. The drive to help & heal but so uncomfortable with people trying to thank her or pay her for helping. (hide spoiler)]

Yeah, abouth the youth in the Koli community, rather strange their childish behaviour playing until 15, (view spoiler)[for a live or die everyday mentality,; like old tribes they would be more mature because I assuming they would die pretty young. In the other hand , that wild "I do as I like" is in more tone with post apocalyptic movies. (hide spoiler)]

Good point, Mitticus. Breaking it down, they should be more tired and doing more work in a small community. I'll put in a quick plug for Carrie Vaughn's Bannerless which seems to hold together much better, but has the same post-breakdown, small-community feel.
Considerations--how to feed that many people; your mineral sources for implements (iron/steel/rock) and renewables; your knowledge reproduction; physical defense; sustainable population.
This has been interesting in that I don't know that we've had a ton of info about food sources yet. Where are the 'hides' from? I was thinking the rats, but --at chapter 24--the biggest mention of rats was (view spoiler)[ when they harvested a rat for its skin, and the rats started hunting the hunters back, resulting in "a lot of bites and skirmishes for a while." (hide spoiler)]

So, the beauty of a terrible memory is that I can add a book and not remember all the reasons why. I'm at chapter 24... one of the things I hate about kindle is that I don't get enough of the sense of the pace of the book. Is the face that this is "The Book of Koli" mean that it's about Koli? And (view spoiler)[the process of being cast out? (hide spoiler)]

The titles are a little misleading. Considering that the next book has two POV's. But! I do think that the main plot focus are determined by things that Koli experiences and the choices he makes.

There's a long list of things that are meh about Kindle app. lol

While reading the book, I thought the story was a bit unfocused. Overall, it's a bit scattered but that part is a mild reflection of life. It was a nice way of showing without info dumping.

There weren't big details but there's talk about hunting sessions for food/materials.

There is ducks and sheeps?

True. But how do they get grain and farm the sheep if they have to stay inside the settlement?

“Duglas” where Ursala is from - I presume Douglas on the Isle of Man? Given that she says that it’s off the mainland?

Ah, that seems a possibility. It's kind of interesting to guess the names.

Any guesses as to how far in the future we are?
I mean, things have survived in both names and tech, so it's not hundreds and hundreds of years in the future, I'm sure.

I was thinking 200-300 years? Enough for some tech to survive but for the society to degenerate and memories of the past to be mostly lost?

Tech that they know about is more advanced than what we have now. I'd guess anywhere from 200-500 years? There should be a time of relative peace. Long enough for weird stuff to happen and extreme decisions about "saving the environment", etc to occur.

I feel like the state of the world was due to a variety of events colliding around the same time.

I find it hilarious that once Koli figures out that the set up of his community (view spoiler)[ is built on lies, he does not even think about exposing it or changing anything - nothing besides becoming a Rampart himself and partaking in the sweet life that being a Rampart brings. Ah, egotistical human nature... (hide spoiler)]

LOL

Koli - The setup is totally there. The most authority/power you can have is by becoming a Rampart. He also thinks he has lost the love of his life to his best friend.

All those dreams crushed within days and he's generally a good natured type.

Chapter 23 (33%):
“Why would anyone hug a tree?” I stammered out. “You would most likely die!”

Hahahahaha!
But seriously, this AI makes me want to claw my eyes out.

Ah, yes Monono! have you (view spoiler)[gotten to the wedding scene with the Rick Roll song? LOL! (hide spoiler)]

Just got to that part! Oh dear. Everyone got rickrolled. (Btw, I wish there was less recognizable contemporary bits like rickrolling and Lady Gaga. Makes it seem dated already, and also suggests that the tree apocalypse is not that far off from our present. I need to go and hug a tree just in case now.)

Koli needs to grow up. Quite a bit. He’s pretty childish, which you’d expect at 16, but it shouldn’t be as prominent in a harsh world where he is an adult. Like Mitticus said above, I’d expect more maturity and less of adolescent behavior in a rough world. It’s a bit too YA at this point.

Also, I’m curious to actually see this world instead of hearing bits and pieces while we stay cooped up behind the village walls. I guess it’s coming, but I want more now. Enough with the AI and lovesick moping already.

You will see it. Just hang tight :)

53% in.

Found places mentioned so far on the map (thanks for info on the setting, Stephen!). Makes it easier to imagine the story in my head:


——————

Soo wrote: "Agreed. "
lol---laughed at your spoiler.

Nataliya wrote: "53% in.

Found places mentioned so far on the map (thanks for info on the setting, Stephen!). Makes it easier to imagine the story in my head:
"

Oh, I thought Ludden was London. Ursala was right, it is really far away from Mythen Rood.

I initially thought it was London, but then it’s four miles away from Koli’s village, so I pulled up a map and it all made better sense.

I wanted more about the world setting too. There's more of that in the next book than this one.

Oh, I went with 'London' as well. Nataliya, thanks very much for the map!

I'm with you Nataliya on the actual music choices being a little too time-specific.

I agree, Koli is very young. I liked the review I saw that mentioned the 'back-and-forth' of 'older' Koli pointing out his younger (and erroneous) thinking making this youthful egocentrism more tolerable--as well as giving some foreshadowing. But yes, he's particularly young --ugh, so not my favorite plotline.

Nataliya wrote: "I find it hilarious that once Koli figures out that the set up of his community [spoilers removed]"

Right?!? I thought he was going to blow that up for a minute. (view spoiler)[ But no. (hide spoiler)] Soo is right, though.

89% in. Getting a bit more description of local villages and towns, and I’m getting a kick out of finding them on the map, and figuring out what they are supposed to be. Sheffy = Sheffield, Lilboru = Littleborough, Hud’s Field = Huddersfield and so on. I assume Lest = Leicester.

It drives home how tiny the scale of Koli‘s world is. London is the nigh-insurmountable 200 miles as the crow flies, in the world where almost nobody been past the “huge” distances of 4-6 miles. That’s a claustrophobic little place we got in the future.

Finished.
Starting the sequel while gathering my thoughts about this one.

Chapter 1 of this book promised us the following:
“I met the shunned men and their messianic, Senlas, who looked into me with his hundreds of eyes. I crossed the ruins of Birmagen, where the army of the Peacemaker was ranged against me. I found the Sword of Albion, though it was not what I was looking for and it brung me as much harm as good. I fought a bitter fight against them I loved, and broke the walls that sheltered me so they’d never stand again.”

So I guess Birmingham is next. I’m ready for the journey.

What did you think?

I dived right into the next book when I finished this one too.

Just wrote a review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Chapter 39, 60% (view spoiler)[post fight with whats-his-face and the cutter. That was an unexpected turn! I didn't think it would go that way, and thought maybe Koli would end up with the cutter for protection. Now getting into the history of the world. (hide spoiler)]

I love that you two have gone on. Should we start a new thread for the sequel? lol

I think we should wait on the sequel until everyone catches up. I mean, wait on the thread, not actually reading the sequel ;)

You might have to go on without me for the sequel then. I don't have a copy yet and I'm still on Harrow the Ninth. If you do decide to do that hope you all have a good read and discussion :)

Yeh. I'm a little lost on how this world would work. Ducks and pigs are mentioned but little mention of farming (there are gardens)--and would they farm if plants are "killers." Can't keep a lot of animals in small space without grazing land (and the Rood appears very small). Seeds fall from the sky, root in you and kill you if you don't pick them out immediately, Another argument against having lots of animals. Hunting rats isn't going to feed 200 people.

The tech angle is also kinda full of holes. Tech requires power of some sort--electricity, battery, fuel, maybe gunpowder for the Arrow. The last they could make. Gunpowder is centuries old. Could generate electricity to charge batteries from say a water wheel but no mention of one and I find this most curious of all--they live along the Calder River yet at least through chapter 15 not a single mention of the river which should be their largest natural resource--water, fish, waterfowl, etc. Feels like Carey could have thought this out better.

Soo wrote: "He also thinks he has lost the love of his life to his best friend. All those dreams crush..."

Could see Spinner wedding Haijan coming but still a bummer. I like her character best of all so far (thru Chapter 15 i think).

Like Carol I like the critiques of the older Koli about his younger self. The younger Koli at 15 is certainly a niave dreamer out of step with the circumstances of his village. More like what I'd expect from a 10 year old.

Stephen--yes! I think I went so slow at the wedding part because Koli is so young, I believe the youth; I don't believe the age-appropriateness in this world.

But I think to Carey's strengths on other books (Girl, sequel), and he did an outsider character that was figuring out their humanity, not really a growing-up-appropriately. Carey's an intriguing writer, to be sure, but something about the style feels a little 'pants-ish' here. It worked in "Girl" because it was so close to the end of the world.

Stephen, I'm guessing solar and a new form of battery for the tech (you know, even more advanced than lithium). I wouldn't say hundreds of years, if we were going according to normal physics, because the drone tech should have failed worse and the (view spoiler)[internet tech (hide spoiler)] shouldn't have been available at all, as that would take a (view spoiler)[satellite, I think. (hide spoiler)]

But yeah, not sure yet (I'm at 60%) if Carey didn't really research agrarian societies, or is working on reveals. I've reached the part where he talks a little more about animal husbandry being mostly ducks and sheep for wool/cheese (??).
(Goats would have worked better for mean plants, lol!)

Man, Koli was such a dumb brat at the wedding. Like what did he think would happen? Why did he not think the reveal through? I can't tell if it's Koli or Carey I'm irritated with. Wouldn't Koli have dreamt of a reveal?

carol. wrote: "Man, Koli was such a dumb brat at the wedding. Like what did he think would happen? Why did he not think the reveal through? I can't tell if it's Koli or Carey I'm irritated with. Wouldn't Koli hav..."

I'm thinking it was an attempt to rob Haijon and Spinner of their moment (that boy was still bitter) and to prove (view spoiler)[he could be a Rampart (hide spoiler)].

It would be out of character. Koli is emotionally driven and the planning comes after. If there is planning. He feels a certain way and then he goes about making it happen.

Plus, it makes sense that people do dumb things out of pain and it's not like he can talk to anyone about it. Ursula isn't there. The two he considers his closest friends are the ones that are getting married.

Stephen wrote: "Yeh. I'm a little lost on how this world would work. Ducks and pigs are mentioned but little mention of farming (there are gardens)--and would they farm if plants are "killers." Can't keep a lot of..."

The worldbuilding in this one is indeed a bit superficial, not uncommon for YA (which I presume this one is). I assumed most plants are not carnivorous, just trees (and I’m still not sure if all trees or just a few trees that Koli mentions). All tech so far seems to be solar powered as far as I see, with batteries that seem to have infinite life as long as they are charged at some point. Yes, very little mentioning of the River (I’d think fishing would have been important).

Starting the sequel now, so I’ll update if I come across good examples of how the life is set up.

carol. wrote: "Man, Koli was such a dumb brat at the wedding. Like what did he think would happen? Why did he not think the reveal through? I can't tell if it's Koli or Carey I'm irritated with. Wouldn't Koli hav..."

Yes! So naive and so stupid! And still wanting just to join the privileged few and partake in the deception instead of thinking of the others also affected by the deception! I guess he is 15 and childish, so getting upset and angrily showing off is in character for him. But just a bit of thinking could have helped.

Every time I marvel at his naïveté I have to remind myself that an illiterate kid in an insular world, knowing very people, can indeed do very silly things without the benefit of knowledge or experience.

Nataliya wrote: "The worldbuilding in this one is indeed a bit superficial, not uncommon for YA (which I presume this one is)."

I believe the publisher Orbit stated that they do not publish YA books, but they do publish books with YA characters and that can appeal to YA audiences. I do wholeheartedly agree that this book has a YA feel to it, but I believe it's intended to be adult.