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February 2015: DOGEATERS by Jessica Hagedorn. Moderators: Ches, Rhea and Dhenise
ohhhh! I love this book :) I had the pleasure to meet Jessica Hagedorn when she visited for Manila Noir.
Im also reading some research and interviews about Jessica H.
Why the title "DogEaters"? I was wondering about it's correlation with the book Hagedorn wrote.*************************************
Looking at the net i came across an excerpt from Bomb magazine. The interviewer asked did the americans called filipinos-dogeaters?-Hagedorn answered " I have read that, but I’m not sure it’s true, because other people have told me that it’s not necessarily derogatory. A lot of Filipinos were upset about that title. This sense of cultural shame came in. I had intended it as a metaphor. I should have fought the whole idea of trying to explain it, which they did on the book jacket. I didn’t want them to define it and I should have stood by my guns, because it’s been creating more trouble than necessary." She added " For the brutality of the life there. Also, as a way of confronting the culture. I’ve said to people, “I don’t get the shame about eating dog.” Let’s look at that. Is it the savage coming out in us or what? There’s this real desire to hide that under the table. I knew it was going to be very controversial. "
Source:
http://bombmagazine.org/article/1398/
Mod
Chapter 1: LOVE LETTERS
- its the name of the radio program that Lola Narcisa and Rio Gonzaga listen to.
This movie is showing in Avenue Theatre in Avenida:
It shows how the burgis Filipinos prefer anything American - including movies.
Characters:
1) Rio Gonzaga - the narrator
2) Pucha Gonzaga - cousin
3) Lorenza - chaperone
Rio's background:
Dolores - mother
Freddie - father (Dolores and he separated)
Raul - stayed behind in the Phils and became a faith healer
Uncle Agustin - Freddie's brother and Pucha's father
Uncle Cristobal - their other brother in Spain
Lola Narcisa Divino - Rio's mother side
Whitman Logan - Lola Narcisa's husband
Dr. Ernesto Katigbak - Lola Narcisa's doctor
Pacita - cook
Aida, Pacita, Fely and chauffer Mario - servants
Father Manuel - Catholic priest
A 1951 movie banned by the Archibishop of Manila:
that made Rio remembered the dying moment of his atheist grandfather.
Questions
1) Do you know Jessica Hagedorn? Have you met her? What's your impression of her? Do you think is she already an all-out American? Or do you still see her "Filipino side"?
2) What books of her you have already read? How are they? Is Dogeaters her best book for you?
3) Regarding this chapter: what for you is the message that Jessica wants to convey by having Rio's background in the story?
4) The Gonzaga's are rich. This is in the early 50's. Do you know of families who were rich during that time? Is how Hagedorn described the family accurate?
5) Nahilig ka ba sa pakikinig ng radyo? Anong paboritong drama o palabas sa radyo ang nakihiligan mo?
Mod
What a unique way of introducing a character: the use of "because...".
Characters:
Severo "Chuchi" Luis - a rich man. filthy rich. Founded SPORTEX, a futuristic department store in the suburb of Makati. This book is copyrighted in 1980. SM's first store was in Manila in 1958.
Isabel - his wife
Serafina - his widowed mother
Severo Alacran - correspondent sent to interview Don Luis.
Cora Camacho, the Barbara Walters of the Philippines - asked to interview Severo Alacran
I liked the use of "he" referring to Don Luis. Then there is a shift towards the end when Severo Alacran becomes the interviewee of Cora Camacho.
Questions
1. "Even rich people have problems" - do you believe this? How different do you think are your problems if you happened to be rich?
2. How deep do you think is the American influence to the Filipino's psyche? During the 50's? When you were growing up? Nowadays? Is it going weak or getting stronger?
3. "The King of Coconuts" (the title) probably refers to Don Luis? But in the description, there is just a mention of Las Palmas and we don't know if it is a coconut plantation. Do you think the coconuts here refers really to the coconut fruits? Or something else?
4. Kung susuriin mo ang sarili mo, gaano ka "ka-Amerikano"? If visa and job are not issues at all, gaano mo kagustong pumunta sa Amerika para doon tumira at magtrabaho?
K.D. wrote: "Reading schedule: 2 chapters a day
Chapter 1: LOVE LETTERS
- its the name of the radio program that Lola Narcisa and Rio Gonzaga listen to.
This movie is showing in Avenue Theatre in Avenida:..."
Answers:
1.I just known Jessica Hagedorn from her book dogeaters. I want to meet her in person. For me its combination of American & Filipino bcoz aside from her activities which invole music, films, plays she still have certain Filipino traits bcoz she wrote Dogeaters.
2.Haven't read other books of her. I heard manila noir also. For me I guess dogeaters is good.
3.I guess it conveys her tragedy, trials, hardships, sex, abuse, lust, etc. living with them.
4.yes I believe bcoz during that time Americans, Burgis People have access to extravagant social gatherings. They take advantage of after war experiences. I guess western people who stayed here in Philippines during 1950's.
5. Nahilig din ako sa radyo, puro music, drama, horror, at balita lang pinakikinggan ko. Ang Inyong Tiya Dely at Gabi ng Lagim.
K.D. wrote: "Chapter 2: THE KING OF COCONUTSWhat a unique way of introducing a character: the use of "because...".
Characters:
Severo "Chuchi" Luis - a rich man. filthy rich. Founded SPORTEX, a futuristic d..."
Answers:
1.Yes rich people have problems too according to Bible. If I'm rich I think taking care of my money or security is my problem bcoz many will get interested in my money.
2.Americans have great influence during 1950's. i think 80%. I think its going strong now a days bcoz they have the access, the artillery, power, the drones just like the mamasapano issues.
3.King of Coconuts I guess theres a different meaning like "resources & control" bcoz coconuts are life food & good for business.
4.Dati gusto ko makapunta sa amerika pero ngayon mas Ok na siguro maging Filipino ako at dito na mag-stay kasi dito ako mas masaya kahit mahirap, kaysa nmn masaya ka nga pero magulo ang buhay I mean iyon "security issue" ay hindi ka kumportable dun atlist sa Pinas eh kabisado ko na.
Hindi ko nmn nilalahat dahil may mga Filipino na masaya rin at kumportable sa Amerika.
Mod
2 chapters a day
Chapter 1: LOVE LETTERS
- its the name of the radio program that Lola Narcisa and Rio Gonzaga listen to.
This movie is showing in Avenue Theatr..."
Po, follow up question for #3, do you think the book is based on Jessica Hagedorn's personal experience?
Mod
What a unique way of introducing a character: the use of "because...".
Characters:
Severo "Chuchi" Luis - a rich man. filthy rich. Founded SPORTEX, a..."
Po, thank you for responding.
On #2, what makes you think that the American influence is strong nowadays? Can you give us some examples?
Ang Harsh mo naman. Give her a chance. Conyo ang dating no! Kidding aside, magandang maiintindihan yun punto de bista ng mga elitista at fil-ams regarding martial law. Hahayaan kong tapusin yun libro then let's see kung worth it.
( sasagutin ko yung mga tanong within this week )
Gusto ko rin makisali sa pagbabasa! May ebooks anywhere? Hehehe!
Hindi ko pa nababasa, pero try ko lang sumagot :)CHAPTER 1:
1) I've heard of her lang, but not really know her. Hagedorn, though. Is he related to the Hagedorns of Palawan? Hehe!
2) I haven't read any of her books. :|
3) To follow.
4) To follow.
5) Sa ngayon, hindi na ako mahilig makinig ng radyo. Mas gusto ko na kasi ang ipod kasi dire-diretso ang mga kanta. At minsan, nakakasawa/irita makinig sa ibang DJs. Hahaha! But when I was a youngER, for some reason, I enjoyed listening to dramas. My father listens to them especially when we're in the car going to/from the province, lalo na kapag wala nang signal ang MNL FM stations. And it's not like I can get off the car anytime, so nakiki-kinig na lang ako. Masaya siya, in fairness. At nakakamiss din. :)
CHAPTER 2:
1. "Even rich people have problems" - do you believe this? How different do you think are your problems if you happened to be rich?
Yes, I do! Rich people can still worry about money. This may also seem that the "stakes" are higher, because the money involved is higher.
And I don't think problems are THAT different whether you're rich or you're poor. It's how you take on that problem pa rin.
Hmm...
2. How deep do you think is the American influence to the Filipino's psyche? During the 50's? When you were growing up? Nowadays? Is it going weak or getting stronger?
I think it was stronger during the 70s or earlier than when I was growing up. I didn't really feel the American influence that much. Although we had the Backstreet Boys and Spice Girls (90s baby!!), we also have Eraserheads, and Philippines games (Langit-Lupa, Piko, Patintero, Block 1-2-3, etc.) and Batibot, and TGIS and G-mik..
These days, although a lot of people seem to speak English really well, it doesn't feel "Americanized" either. Actually, I think we're all the more becoming prouder of being Filipinos. :) or maybe that's just how I feel with people I hang out these days/years. :D
3. To follow.
4. Kung susuriin mo ang sarili mo, gaano ka "ka-Amerikano"? If visa and job are not issues at all, gaano mo kagustong pumunta sa Amerika para doon tumira at magtrabaho?
Pwede bang Australia? Haha never ko ata naging pangarap tumira sa Amerika. Masyadong malayo para sakin. Sa ngayon talaga, pangarap ko ang Australia. Hahaha wala lang, share ko lang. Hahaha!
Pero kung magtrabaho sa Amerika, ok lang. Pero siguro not for good (depende kung may lovelife potential!). Pero Pinas pa rin ako over US. Hehe:)
Is it [not] possible for someone to write a book, but the story doesn't necessarily reflect the personality of the author?Napaisip lang ako sa comments ni Ang Kawangki. Hehe!
Naccurious tuloy ako sa book. Pahiram ng kopya : )))
Sa mga wala pang kopya ng aklat pwede nyo pagtiyagaan un "The Opposing Thumb by Leonard Casper Giraffe Books, lalot kpg poorita kayo hehe!.
@Po:Naku, buod lang yung nasa Opposing Thumb. Mahilab lang nang kaunti sa summary na makikita sa Wikipedia. Mas maganda pa rin na mabasa nang buo ang nobela, para complete experience, ika nga. 'Yon lang, sana'y may mahanap pang kopya ang mga kakweba. :)
Para sa mga wala pang kopya, download nyo po tong chapter 1 & 2 na PDF para makasali sa topic natin ngayon. Pinanindigan ko na ang pagiging pirata :p hahaha!Download link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Km...
Questions1) Do you know Jessica Hagedorn? Have you met her? What's your impression of her? Do you think is she already an all-out American? Or do you still see her "Filipino side"?
I don't personally know Jessica Hagedorn, but I fortunately met her once when I attended the book launching of Manila Noir sometime ago in 2013. It is also in the said event where I bought my copy of Dogeaters and have it signed by her. Perhaps we cannot outright say that she's already an "all-out American" and it's hard to gauge it based on her writing. After all these years living in the US maybe we can say that she's already an American citizen now. Well, based on her writing, and from what I've read thus far, she still incorporates the Filipino experience in her books as much as she can but through the lens of an immigrant, or someone who has left the the Philippines and still turns to it time and again.
2) What books of her you have already read? How are they? Is Dogeaters her best book for you?
I have only read two of her books so far: Manila Noir, which she edited, and Dogeaters. Since she had published other works in between both books, I cannot say for sure that Dogeaters is her best book. From what I know it at least got a few awards when it wast listed in 1990, and I appreciate the work for what it is and what it tries to convey about the country during those turbulent times.
3) Regarding this chapter: what for you is the message that Jessica wants to convey by having Rio's background in the story?
Jessica seems to show here how the youth in our country during the '50s was influenced by the American culture, most noticeably through Holywood films. I think what she does here is to contrast the characters of Pucha and Rio; the former who wants to abnegate her roots in the name of all things American, and the latter who is still coming to terms of what it means to grow up as a Filipino.
4) The Gonzaga's are rich. This is in the early 50's. Do you know of families who were rich during that time? Is how Hagedorn described the family accurate?
I think Hagedorn depicts the rich here not by the virtue of their hard work but through their lineage being Spanish mestizos. In my opinion it is not far off from what F. Sionil Jose has said in his novels, that the higher up you go in the echelon of Philippine society during the time, the lighter the skin of the people who belongs there.
5) Nahilig ka ba sa pakikinig ng radyo? Anong paboritong drama o palabas sa radyo ang nakihiligan mo?
I was born during the time when TV was the powerful of medium of entertainment, so the chances of having a favorite a radio show was close to none. I remember hearing snatches of Gabi ng Lagim when I was young and being terrified by some of the stories (much likely by the creepy sound effects), but that's all I can remember.
Ronie wrote: "Para sa mga wala pang kopya, download nyo po tong chapter 1 & 2 na PDF para makasali sa topic natin ngayon. Pinanindigan ko na ang pagiging pirata :p hahaha!Download link: https://drive.google.c..."
Salamat Ronie sa kopya nito.
Neil (Arbitrary Reader) wrote: "Meron din dito. EPUB version. http://mobilism.me/viewtopic.php?f=12..."
Salamat Neil sa kopy rin nito.
jzhunagev wrote: "@Po:Naku, buod lang yung nasa Opposing Thumb. Mahilab lang nang kaunti sa summary na makikita sa Wikipedia. Mas maganda pa rin na mabasa nang buo ang nobela, para complete experience, ika nga. 'Yo..."
@jzhun, tama ka jan!... mas maganda basahin ng buo ang aklat pero sa mga katulad ko Poorita mainam na ang maging resourceful-kahit ibang aklat sa murang halaga at wikipedia pinagtitiyagaan para makapagbasa.
Salamat kila Ronie at Neil, sa mga kopyang binahagi nila.
May 3 copies pa ng dogeaters dito sa boni avenue. Nbs quad.
Po wrote: "jzhunagev wrote: "@Po:
Naku, buod lang yung nasa Opposing Thumb. Mahilab lang nang kaunti sa summary na makikita sa Wikipedia. Mas maganda pa rin na mabasa nang buo ang nobela, para complete experi..."
NCCLC ang book piracy baka nababasa ng author yan.
Ayun... Bili na lang tayo o manghiram sa library. Vocal na vocal kasi tayo guys haha...
Naku, buod lang yung nasa Opposing Thumb. Mahilab lang nang kaunti sa summary na makikita sa Wikipedia. Mas maganda pa rin na mabasa nang buo ang nobela, para complete experi..."
NCCLC ang book piracy baka nababasa ng author yan.
Ayun... Bili na lang tayo o manghiram sa library. Vocal na vocal kasi tayo guys haha...
Mod
Still the unnamed narrator
Characters:
Baby Alacran - ugly compared to her mother
Severo Alacran - baby's father (introduced in Chapter 2)
Pepe Carreon - 27-y/o, Baby's husband-to-be who'll work with General Ledesma
Isabel Alacran - baby's mother
Dr. Ernesto Katigbak - family doctor
Dr. Emilia Katigbak - skin specialist; wife of Ernesto
Gen. Nicasio Ledesma
Leonor Ledesma - his wife
Dona Serafina Alacran - mother of Severo Alacran
"Love is the only word to which she fully responds, and Pepe uses it freely"
Baby eloping with Pepe and the media says it is an abduction. - this reminded me of Imee Marcos eloping with Tommy Manotoc (Borgy's father) basketball player. That time, it came out also as an abduction! Haha
Questions
1) This story is focused on Baby Alacran, the ugly daughter of Isabel Alacran. In terms of physical appearance, are you better-looking than your parents? Yes or no, tell me how it feels.
2) Do you think Pepe Carreon truly loves Baby? Justify your answer based on this chapter alone.
3) The chapter is entitled "White Bouquet" probably because of the malas all white flowers during the wedding. Why is white unlucky?
4) Explain the quote above: "Love is the only word to which she fully responds, and Pepe uses it freely."
5) Kung maga-asawa ka, importante ba na "marrying up" at di "marrying down"? Up means mas angat ang mapapangasawa mo kaysa sa yo: sa looks, sa pera, etc. Explain your preference (kung meron)
Mod
2 chapters a day
Chapter 1: LOVE LETTERS
- its the name of the radio program that Lola Narcisa and Rio Gonzaga listen to.
This movie is showing in Avenue Theatr..."
Ganito rin ang feeling ko matapos kong basahin ang libro. Parang out-of-touch ang libro dahil unang beses kong magbasa ng mga walang keber sa Martial Law haha.
Pero may mga ganitong tao noon nga kasi. Dahil mayayaman sila at kaanib pa sila ng Marcos administration.
Tapos siyempre, mataas ang expectation ko kay Hagedorn (no relation yata sa Mayor, Honeypie di ako sure) dahil Fil-Am na published internationally. At marami na ring nasulat. Pero noong mabasa ko ito, parang di naman nalalayo sa ibang Fil-Am books na nabasa ko kagaya ni Linmark, Syjuco at Han Ong.
Mod
Hahayaan kong tapusin yun l..."
Tama, Billy. Diversity in reading, sabi nga ng topic ni Bebang Siy sa nakaraang Readercon. Pero okay lang, feeling yan (namin) ni Kawangki.
Mod
Napaisip lang ako sa comments ni Ang Kawangki. Hehe!
Naccurious tuloy ak..."
Honeypie, magbasa ka. Hindi ito advice column hahaha. Joke. Sana makahanap ka na ng libro. :)
Mod
What a unique way of introducing a character: the use of "because...".
Characters:
Severo "Chuchi" Luis - a rich man. filthy rich. Founded SPORTEX, a..."
Hindi pa ako siguro malalim mag-isip kaya wala akong maisip na sinisimbolo ng punong ito.
Malalim ka nang magisip, Kawangki. Kaya ka nga laging panayamista awardee (two in a row na?) Haha.
Mod
Oh right! Neil, thanks.
O ayan, wala na kayong excuse na walang libro. Pati ikaw, Po.
Mod
Sa Forum ba ito?
Mod
1) Do you know Jessica Hagedorn? Have you met her? What's your impression of her? Do you think is she already an all-out American? Or do you still see her "Filipino side"?
I don't perso..."
Best set of answers so far, Jzhun. Very polished. Thanks.
I like this line that you wrote: In my opinion it is not far off from what F. Sionil Jose has said in his novels, that the higher up you go in the echelon of Philippine society during the time, the lighter the skin of the people who belongs there.
But I heard F. Sionil Jose doesn't like this novel?
"Abnegate" talaga? hahaha
Mod
hindi kuya K.D. May isang NBS sa pioneer st, Quad centre building. yun din ang HQ ng Anvil publishing
Mod
malapit sa office building ko. pero pagnag tricycle ka alam nila ang nbs.
Billy wrote: "malapit sa office building ko. pero pagnag tricycle ka alam nila ang nbs."Malapit ba yan sa tower 3 ng rob?
Meron bang pwedeng mahiraman? :) #WalangBudget #Dukha
Honeypie, bilhan nalang kita, bayaran mo nalang ako sa event. Saan ko pwedeng ibigay sayo?
Kuya Billy bilhan mo rin ako. Bayaran ko bukas sa UPFI.
Answers for Questions on Chapter 1: Love letters 1) I don't know her personally and i've not met her. She seems nice and cordial. Technically, She's an American citizen, but i do see her Filipino side.
2) None. This is my first book, my first time (please be gentle).
3) That being rich means giving you the right to be a brat or a**hole.
4) I had schoolmates that came from rich families. I'm not sure if they are old rich or noveau rich.
5) OO. Fan ako ng dramas sa DZRH, Tia Dely at Gabi ng Lagim at sa DZMM si Ernie Barong " kung walang knowledge, walang power"
Answers for Questions on Chapter 2: THE KING OF COCONUTS1. "Even rich people have problems" -
do you believe this? How different do
you think are your problems if you
happened to be rich?
* Yes. The problem of keeping and getting more money in line with their lifestyle. I've not experienced being rich so I think my problem will be my pesky relative asking money
2. How deep do you think is the
American influence to the Filipino's
psyche? During the 50's? When you were
growing up? Nowadays? Is it going weak
or getting stronger?
* The American presence is been there and growing more stronger. The best example is our preference in using English rather then the local dialects.
3. "The King of Coconuts" (the title)
probably refers to Don Luis? But in
the description, there is just a
mention of Las Palmas and we don't
know if it is a coconut plantation. Do
you think the coconuts here refers
really to the coconut fruits? Or
something else?
I think it refers to the Philippines because we have a lot of coconut trees here and we do export coconut materials overseas. I heard one of my cousins in the state that american's first impression about the Philippines will be beaches and coconuts!
4. Kung susuriin mo ang sarili mo,
gaano ka "ka-Amerikano"? If visa and
job are not issues at all, gaano mo
kagustong pumunta sa Amerika para doon
tumira at magtrabaho?
* Hindi ako galit sa Kano, Interesado din ako sa kultura nila. ang hindi ko lang yun gusto yun protocol at polisiya ng amerikano gobyerno. walang problema maka-tour sa States pero least siya sa akin dahil mas prioritize ko malaman at intindihin ako bilang pilipino at ang inang bayan Pilipinas.
Mod
New narrator: Joey
Setting: Gay bar - COCORICO
Characters:
JOEY, an African-Filipino black young DJ and hustler (male prostitute).
ANDRES ALACRAN, bastard gay son of an Alacran (don't know who). Owner of the gay bar
PEDRO, the janitor working in the bar
EUGENIO "EUGENIO/EUGENIA" VILLAROSA, hermaphrodite that Andres fell in love years ago
UNCLE, the man who adopted Joey when he was still a young boy. He pushes drugs and pimps girls.
BOY-BOY, Joey's boyhood friend.
Mister Heartbreak - is the nickname given by Andres to Joey.
Questions
1) Pedro and Andres characterize two Filipinos at the opposite sides of a pole: the poor and the rich. Andres says that Pedro eats dog (hence, the book's title) because he comes from the mountain province. Notice their names, they are both very Filipino. What does this mean to you?
2) Joey seems like a budoi, a child left by American GI. He is adopted by a Filipino pusher and pimp who he calls as "Uncle." Why do you think Jessica Hagedorn incorporated their stories in this book? Do you think Uncle adopted those four boys (Joey, Chito, Carding and Boy-Boy) for him to earn money from them?
3) Why do you think Joey has not left Uncle yet?
4) "I love it when everything falls into place? Don't you?" Isn't this obvious? Why do you think Jessica decided to have Joey say this?
5) Nakapasok ka na ba sa gay bar? May nakilala ka na bang male prostitute?
Mod
There is really this book from Jean Mallat and it is here on Goodreads. Unfortunately, there is no review. But this is the cover of this 1846 book:
It is shocking because based on what Jessica Hagedorn put here as an excerpt, it is as if the negritoes are being taken as pet animals. This reminded me of the plot of the Planet of the Apes haha.
Questions:
1) What do you think the Americans who took that young negrito as a pet felt? Was it kindness or arrogance (superiority) that made them do so?
2) If it happened to be the reverse, say we are the powerful race and we colonized America, would you do the same to those small Caucasian (white) American toddler? Take him as a pet?
3) This Jean Mallat's book was published in 1846, fifty years before Rizal was shot in Luneta. Or 52 years before the revolution of 1898. Do you think this book was also part of the hatred that Filipinos felt towards the Spaniards and later towards the Americans?
4) Ano sa tingin mo ang dahilan kung bakit isinama ni Jessica Hagedorn ang excerpt na ito sa nobela? Anong kinalaman, halimbawa ng buhay ni Joey sa kuwento? Dahil inadopt sya ni Uncle?
check this out!postcolonial.org/index.php/pct/articl...
"Gender, Language, and Identity in Dogeaters: A
Postcolonial Critique"
Honestly, nag-e-enjoy ako sa pagbabasa nito. It's clever and funny... Kung anuman ang goal ni Hagedorn. Mukhang natatawa at natutuwa ako... Historical references and cultural references are jaw dropping...
Our moderators are the PNU Literature seniors, Ches and Denise.
Please buy your copies now. We would like to discuss the book thoroughly online and then have a face-to-face discussion. We will not be able to interview Hagedorn because she is in the US but we will try to send our questions to her via FB.
Come join Ches, Rhea and Denise in this discussion thread.