Weird Westerns discussion

So I was thinkin', tropes, man. Tropes. As lovers of the Weird and very Wild West, we're exposed to a lot of tropes. Vast cross-sections from varying sources. There is, of course, and right up front, all the Western tropes. Probably the second place would be horror tropes. So what are your favorites? Which ones do you like reading best? What about writing?

If you need a refresher or you're just plain curious, check out the Weird West TV Tropes page. Just remember to carry some rope before you fall down the rabbit hole.

I've been a sucker for the Gunslinger trope in straight Western and Weird Western since I was a wee lad. So, obviously that's the biggest one that shows up in my own work. I did have a Magical Native American in Grinder's Keeper, but he was actually magical which I hope counts as subverting the trope, or at least having a little fun with it.

The Gunslinger trope spawned the book I'm working on. And of course there's the Dark Tower. I like seeing non-Gunslingers show up too but yeah, it's just so hard not to love those characters.

Actual Magical Native instead of Vaguely Mystical Mentor to Chuck Norris?

I have a whole tribe of Actual Magical Native Americans in Brackett, along with the comical Shaman/Chief. He's actually magical, but kinda like a Mystical Mentor who's always high lol.

Imagine ye olde "Cowboys vs. Indians" where the medicine men are insanely powerful sorcerers.

If'n that didn't just give me an idea for a story...

I have an African Warrior in my Brackett Series, thought that may be a little more original than the typical "Cowboy and Indian" team-up.

I think other tropes that show up frequently are the Gambler archetype and the Hooker With A Heart Of Gold, both of which were common "careers" in the real Old West, although not respected.

What's a trope?

Justin wrote: "What's a trope?"

I wasn't going to admit it Justin, but I thought the same thing when I first saw the thread LOL. I had never heard the term. I think it's basically a literature stereotype, but some of the others could probably explain it better.

I'm using the Gambler in a new short story I'm working on.

And yeah, tropes are basically archetypes and what have you. Like, a trope of high fantasy would be Regal Elves. All very stoic and prim and proper. Another trope would be Infinite Ammo, which we all know very well from the Evil Dead series. Ash's shotgun seems neverending. Hell, the Duel would be a trope for us. For older westerns, it'd be White Hat vs. Black Hat.

Justin wrote: "What's a trope?"



A literary trope is the use of figurative language – via word, phrase, or even an image – for artistic effect[1] such as using a figure of speech. The word trope has also come to be used for describing commonly recurring literary and rhetorical devices,[2] motifs or clichés in creative works.[3][4] The term trope derives from the Greek τρόπος (tropos), "turn, direction, way", derived from the verb τρέπειν (trepein), "to turn, to direct, to alter, to change".[3] Tropes and their classification were an important field in classical rhetoric.

From the Wikipedia page.

I'm not entirely sure that trope isn't being used to mean cliche, in this instance.

James wrote: "I'm not entirely sure that trope isn't being used to mean cliche, in this instance."

In a lot of modern internet reference, trope is most often used to mean cliche; you are correct in that idea.

Thank you guys, that helps.

hi Ashe. I guess I should direct my comment/suggestion to you as moderator. Perhaps create 2 more create a topics for weird wedtern authors. One where authors can give a synopsis of their current work, the other topic for research. The research topic can be knowledge sharing sort of QnA. I know ive spent a great deal of time researching such things as the timing of school terms in the 1800s (broke for harvest season) and other stuff. We could all benifit from sharing our respective research. Your thoughts?

I can do that, though anyone is welcome to start a new thread. This also isn't exactly the right thread for suggestions. I can start up a suggestion thread tomorrow.

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm noticing a pattern in three upcoming Western movies:

The Magnificent Seven(remake)
The Hateful Eight
The Ridiculous Six

Anyone notice anything obvious? I assume it's a spin off the Magnificent Seven but it still seems a bit silly, unnecessary and forced. Also having recently seen the original Magnificent Seven I looked at the new film and the cast doesn't even measure up or come close to the caliber of stars that were in the original.

Purely a reference.

Justin wrote: "
The Magnificent Seven(remake)
The Hateful Eight
The Ridiculous Six

Anyone notice anything obvious? I assume it's a spin off the Magnificent Seven but it still seems a bit silly, unnecessary and forced. Also having recently seen the original Magnificent Seven I looked at the new film and the cast doesn't even measure up or come close to the caliber of stars that were in the original."

I'm not following.

The remake is a remake. The Hateful Eight's title is obviously a riff off The Magnificent Seven. As such, it's totally reasonable and it's not been overdone (on that movie).

However, The Ridiculous Six seems a tad unnecessary (if that's what you meant). Since it is not a parody of (or even mildly plot-related to) either of those movies. It's just a crass attempt to cash in on Tarantino's press.

It's a Sandler movie. It was literally him being lazy.

Also, for any who aren't aware, Magnificent Seven was based on Seven Samurai.

I was pointing out how the reference as Ashe put it is done to pertain to the titles. It's always a word that follow's a number. It was just originally The Magnificent Seven but you have to wonder if these two new movies are just a way on words and similar but a funny reference to Magnificent Seven.

Hope that makes more sense.

deleted user wrote: "James wrote: "I'm not entirely sure that trope isn't being used to mean cliche, in this instance."

In a lot of modern internet reference, trope is most often used to mean cliche; you are correct i..."

The difference between a "trope" and a "cliche," as I understand it, is that a trope can be reimagined and reworked, whereas a cliche is so stale that it can't be reworked.

For example, "The Drifter" as a Western Trope that goes back to "A Fistfull of Dollars" if not earlier ("Shane," perhaps?); heck, if you want to be truly honest, it goes back to Yojimbo, which was the source for A Fistfull of Dollars. But it was reinvented every few movies so that even when it was Eastwood, the Stranger in the Dollars trilogy was NOT the same stranger as in Pale Rider was NOT the same stranger as in High Plains Drifter. Essentially, Dr. King Schultz from "Django Unchained" is a drifter character, but radically different from any of the Eastwood incarnations. In other words, there is room to play with and manipulate a "trope," and it's how one is able to reinvent it that determines its success or failure.

Joshua wrote: "The difference between a "trope" and a "cliche," as I understand it, is that a trope can be reimagined and reworked, whereas a cliche is so stale that it can't be reworked. "

Trope has multiple meanings. In this context, a trope is akin to a convention. A cliche is a trope or other convention that has been overused.

For example:
The murder at the country estate is a trope of mystery fiction. It can be done well or poorly and seem fresh or stale.

Discovering that "the butler did it" is a cliche. No matter what you do, ending with "the butler did it" is not going to please many people.

(comedy, of course, can change things)

One trope I enjoy seeing is the character that's always found at the bottom of the bottle. for some reason I just really like their stories, they seem to always jump out at you. and their characters can be either deep and dark/depressing, or comically drunk with moments of just deep insight.