Environmental Book Club discussion

Hi everyone,

Tomorrow is book discussion today! Please add your comments and thoughts below on the day or at a later date if you haven't finished it yet.

Here are our suggested discussion questions:

1. What did you think of the book and the writing style, how does it compare to other climate literature that you've read?

2. Wallace-wells has been labelled by some as being alarmist, what do you think about this, and do you think fear can drive people to action?

3. Was there a section or topic regarding that consequences of climate change in the book that shocked or concerned you the most?

5. Do you have some favourite quotes from the book?

6. Were you more inspired to take action on climate change after reading the book and if so what?

1. Overall I loved the book and think it is such an important read. I noticed that individual points weren’t referenced so although I believe his facts are all based on scientific studies obviously it made it slightly trickier to cross reference. I struggled a bit getting through the ‘Politics of Consumption’ chapter near the end, which I think mostly just reflects how much more reading I need to do on politics, the economy and history. I also found it difficult to figure out what his views were and his ideas for solutions, he seemed to subtly criticise the liberal left and be quite pro technology saving us from climate change but it was. I guess his aim was maybe to stay impartial, and we can’t expect every climate book to offer a list of solutions - this clearly wasn’t that kind of book.

2. I personally think an element of fear is needed to drive some people to action. I know a mix or people from those who just freeze with fear and despair, to those that even knowing the facts prefer to pretend they don’t exist (maybe that’s so they don’t freeze with fear?). I class myself as being quite immune to the fear and despair, though I do think there is likely still an element of denial there. I found the bit really interesting about theorist Timothy Morton calling climate change a ‘hyper object’ - a conceptual fact so large and complex that it can never be properly comprehended, I think this is an area that we desperately need help with to truly take action. I don’t class him as an alarmist though, I think it’s important to look at the worst case scenarios.

3. Obviously all of it was terrifying, one of the descriptions that scared me the most that I hadn’t previously read about too much was within the discussion about diseases. Since the coronavirus pandemic I’ve been aware that environmental destruction increases risks of new pandemics. But the thought of diseases thawing out of the permafrost and the incident of the mass death of saiga due to pasteurella proliferation from warm weather- were both things I hadn’t heard too much about before. It also felt incredible ironic reading both this section and about the wildfires whilst looking at what’s been going in the world in real time.

The book also made me see more than I have before how rapid things are changing- I’ve known that climate changing was of course very slow in the past- but the way Wallace-wells touched on it numerous times made me see quite how rapidly we’ve caused these issues.

4.

“Climate change isn’t something happening here or there but everywhere, all at once. And unless we choose to halt it, it will never stop.”

“Guilt saturates the air as much as carbon, though we choose to believe we do not breathe it.”

“Eating organic is nice, but if your goal is to save the climate your vote is much more important.”

“No matter how out of control our climate system seems - we are all its authors. And still writing.’

6. To be honest this out of the books I’ve read wasn’t the one to drive me to action as much as others, I don’t know if it was because it was lacking solutions or because it did lead to an element of despair. As has been the case for a while anyway it probably has made me move away from individual action and more towards systemic action, and the realisation that we probably need a complete upheaval in the current political and economic system has been a big one- and something I need to read a lot more about.

I liked how the book was split up into each chapter but the writing was very small in my book which I find a bit frustrating to read since it takes so long to get through a chapter! I think the Elements of Chaos was the best section with each part of climate change broken down and explained further.

This book definitely fell short on the hope front! It was a very depressing and moody read, with some days a struggle to even pick the book up and carry on. I think fear can drive people to action but for the wrong reasons. Fear can make people do extreme things, and it's not the way for us to change as a society and species into a healthier one.

The diseases that could come back shocked me the most, as did the flooding and realising which areas would be the first to go.

"Climate change isn't something happening here and there but everywhere, all at once. And unless we choose to halt it, it will never stop." stuck with me too!

"Any number of dead is a tragedy, but more than 10,000 people die each day, globally, from the small-particulate pollution produced by burning carbon."

"Every round-trip plane ticket from New York to London, keep in mind, costs the Arctic three more square metres of ice."

"Now we all share the responsibility to write the next act."

I felt less inspired and more anxious to take action on climate change after reading this book. There was no message of hope, and anything I want to do now after reading it would be because I'm scared of the future he writes about in this book. I think you need to provide the facts, and then hope with how to turn things around. The author themselves writes about how they don't really do much to curb their impact on the planet and this book felt more like an obituary on how humans destroyed everything. I finished this book feeling despair; despite that, I do think this book is a necessary read.

Joanne wrote: "I liked how the book was split up into each chapter but the writing was very small in my book which I find a bit frustrating to read since it takes so long to get through a chapter! I think the Ele..."

I agree Jo, I found wallace-wells really interesting in the fact that he doesn't class himself as an environmentalist and talked about not taking much action himself. I think he's on twitter maybe so would be interested to hear what he current thoughts are. I think the book has its place and is an important read, but it definitely needs to be balanced out like you say with some readings on hope and meaningful calls to action.

I agree with Joanne that it was a bit hard to get through at times due to how doom and gloom it was. Particularly since it was already a dense read with all of the great scientific studies to back it up.

That fear-based approach isn’t always super motivating for me but I do like having a mix of information. I also acknowledge that this style can be very motivating for others.

I found it particularly interesting that Wallace-Wells doesn’t identify as an environmentalist really much at all, and instead looked at the issue from a journalist’s perspective using facts backed up with science. I actually really appreciated this.

Overall, a dense but important read. I’m glad I read it but it’s not one I’ll be re-reading anytime soon.

Fran wrote: "Hi everyone,

Tomorrow is book discussion today! Please add your comments and thoughts below on the day or at a later date if you haven't finished it yet.

Here are our suggested discussion questi..."

Hi everyone!
What a book!!

1. I definitely felt like this book was quite heavy/dense in terms of language and topics. So many of us are at least aware that the current climate crisis is not a joke and know that the consequences of inaction are unimaginable. Wallace-Wells doesn't settle for the unimaginable and brings some harsh realities to the foreground. I didn't necessarily enjoy reading this, but I also appreciated all the time and energy involved in sharing the message. I can see why some people don't like it or have a hard time getting through it- It is NOT anything easy to sit with once you know what is happening and what is coming.
This is important information and although it wasn't delivered with an ending message of hope and optimism, it served its purpose and made me face some tough realities.

2. I don't think Wallace-Wells in an alarmist. I think he's a realist and presents the science and people just don't want to accept that we are headed where we are and that we could make the changes necessary but there are other forces at work that make it nearly impossible. I didn't take it as a "fear" tactic on W-W part but who knows, I might just be used to reading these types of pieces for school and work that nothing is as ALARMING anymore, it all is a sad reality of the world we live in and makes me angry, not fearful, just enough to want to fight for change. I find that books too hopeful or positive can be really powerful for the reader, and have their place, but don't necessarily spark action/change that we so desperately need. It's a tough balance! Overall, I just felt like the language wasn't accessible and took a while to get through since it was a lot to digest. An important read as many of you have said and I'm glad we read it- I think it has its place and contains so much important info that people need to be aware of.

3. In general, I felt that any sections that addressed (even briefly) climate injustice/environmental injustice were more impactful and concerning for me. It's become more and more apparent that the people who will suffer and are suffering the most from our climate crisis are also those (usually) who are contributing the least (ghg wise). We can talk about science and the degrees of warming, rising sea levels, and all the data you want but in terms of human/animal suffering, there is no way to truly quantify that.

"...and in the coming decades many of the most punishing climate horrors will indeed hit those least able to respond and recover."

4. I am constantly writing stuff down while I am reading so I will only share a few that stand out to me now:

"A state of half-ignorance and half-indifference is a much more pervasive climate sickness than true denial or true fatalism."

"Until now, it seems to have been easier for us to empathize with the climate plight of other species than our own..."

"But the climate calculus is such that individual lifestyle choices do not add up to much unless they are scaled by politics."

"We all lived for money, and that is what we died for." (he mentions this quote from William Vollmann's Carbon Ideologies)

5. This book made me want to dig deeper into the work I'm doing, to think critically of how I present information to others, and inspired me to continue to connect with my communities and fight for change. Not because the book filled me with hope, but because it reminded me that we KNOW what's wrong, we KNOW what needs to be done, we KNOW that our infrastructure is intensely flawed and unjust, and now we just need to speak up, even more, unite with the right communities, and do whatever we can to avoid the "horrors" that are to come.

I thought the writing was heavy but honestly not as like boring as other climate books - I felt like it was readable

I wouldn’t call him an alarmist per say I think he just wants to put all the situations out there but I certainly think that fear can drive people to action - but those people probably aren’t picking up climate literature anyways.

The part that was so mind blowing for me was talking about space and aliens and all the earths that may have had humans and civilizations before that are just soo far in the past we can’t even detect it

I don’t think he gave us very many action items to get started on but every time I read climate literature I’m more inspired to do the small things - turning off lights and water quicker, carpooling & spreading awareness

Sammi wrote: "I thought the writing was heavy but honestly not as like boring as other climate books - I felt like it was readable

I wouldn’t call him an alarmist per say I think he just wants to put all the s..."

Sammi- thanks for joining us!
I especially felt like this book was tough to get through because of personal stress and anxiety about life changes and the current political climate- just the timing wasn't great. But hey! Isn't that exactly what the current climate crisis is teaching many of us? It's never going to be a "good" time to learn the truth and grow and try and make positive changes in this world.

Fran wrote: "1. Overall I loved the book and think it is such an important read. I noticed that individual points weren’t referenced so although I believe his facts are all based on scientific studies obviously..."

Fran!
All your points are so well put- as always. I definitely identify with a lot of what you said. In particular when you say, "I class myself as being quite immune to the fear and despair, though I do think there is likely still an element of denial there. " This really resonates with me, especially in terms of reading this book. Everything I've studied for so long has been "bad news", making each new cycle of information/news less impactful in a lot of ways. But it's no reason not to keep reading and sharing important information and hopefully soon we can look back on the predictions laid out and see what we have avoided.

1. It was similar gloom and doom and fear as the first chapter of the last book... But it never stopped. It was bad news on top of bad news. I found it very depressing. And it wasn't labeled how I'm used to scientific writings having notes referenced in certain statements. It was hard to know what was supported.

2. I could see that he would be an alarmist. I couldn't get into the book because it was constant sad concepts. I think fear CAN drive people to action, but for a lot of people that isn't an effective tool. Positivity and hope can be just as motivating.

3. I thought it was all crazy what could happen. The diseases section was shocking with permafrost melting and releasing OLD bacteria and viruses and killing off species! Also, the section that talked about plants adapting thicker leaves but in turn sequestering LESS CO2! UH OH!

5. I'm sure I did, but I like the ones everyone else has.

6. Inspired isn't the word I would use. I was depressed after reading the book. Informed about MORE bad stuff that could happen, and is likely. But I was not more inspired to take action. It's just more urgent knowing more.