The Evolution of Science Fiction discussion

Hi everyone, I made this video, 'Great Scifi Books for Beginners,' which I thought you might like. Though I actually included a whole bunch of recommendations that probably go a bit beyond what beginners are usually recommended:

https://youtu.be/oy1XdIMVJuM

Check it out if you have 10 minutes free, and let me know what books you think I should have included. I've also got some in-depth videos on Kurt Vonnegut and Isaac Asimov coming, so make sure to subscribe if you want to see those.

I checked your video. Hard to argue the choices. All are excellent choices. However, I think the only one I would recommend for a beginner is Binti. I think it provides a great story and a good place for a beginning introduction to Science Fiction. The others I think may drive away newbies.

I tend to recommend short stories as a way to break into the genre. It gives a great taste of a wide range of sub-genres. That way a person trying the genre out can find where they think their niche may lay.

Personally,

I would recommend for newbies:

The Forge of God

The Tomorrow File

Lock In

Dark Matter

The Library at Mount Char

All are highly readable and are spread across the genre. They also give a good taste of what one can find.

I would not recommend Dhalgren unless the reader is experienced with literature. It would be like handing Moby-Dick or, the Whale to someone new to literature and expect them to make sense of what the book is really about.

BTW, I agree with your analysis of the books. They all are excellent, but not what I think are good starting points, except for Binti as I noted.

I haven't read all the books on either list but I don't think I would agree with Library at Mount Char. I loved that book but it really is more horror than SF, and it's graphically violent as well. Lock In is a good starter book, as would be the OMW series by Scalzi. And anything YA would be a little more accessible to new readers.

When I recommend books to someone less familiar with sci-fi, I always go with The Left Hand of Darkness first, then The Caves of Steel, a less appreciated classic oldie. A few other good ones that are lesser known or more recent:
Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang
Embassytown - Mieville is not to be missed!
The Windup Girl
Little Brother
A fun series to start with is the Vorkosigan Saga, Barrayar. Not too serious or hard to read.
I would not start someone with Hyperion or Dhalgren, that's a sure way to scare a newbie away. Perdido Street Station is very dense too, which is why I suggest Embassytown over it on a newbie list.

This is such a great topic, Simon! I teach a ton of newbie sci-fi readers in a sci-fi survey class, and your video will be great to share with them.

One of the things I always like to have my students look at is the reasons why they are exploring this new (to them) genre. I typically have them read this article at the beginning of each semester: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna40907377

Allan wrote: "I would not start someone with Hyperion or Dhalgren, that's a sure way to scare a newbie away. ..."

It depends on who you are talking to. If the person normally reads complicated fiction like Ulysses or Pale Fire, then Dhalgren is a fine thing to recommend to show that SF can also be worth their time.

The inclusion of Hyperion and Dhalgren is a daring choice--I'm not sure if either would necessarily lead someone dipping toes into the genre to read more "science fiction." If anything, enjoying Dhalgren may lead to reading more Delaney, because I can't think of many science fiction works which are comparable. "Man I just devoured Dhalgren--whatta got for me next? I want more!" Hmmmm, well....humph.

My introduction to science fiction was The Lathe of Heaven as well as Slaughterhouse-Five. I assume in your search for recommendations outside of the norm you excluded LeGuin and Vonnegut because they would be too popular.

Finally, it's ironic that of your recommendations, I've only read Hyperion and Dhalgren. As a seasoned reader, I will return and sample the remaining wares.

Thanks for the clip. Enjoyed it.

Ed wrote: "Allan wrote: "I would not start someone with Hyperion or Dhalgren, that's a sure way to scare a newbie away. ..."

It depends on who you are talking to. If the person normally reads complicated fic..."

Very true. Most of the people I run across are not that way, but it points out that you probably have to tailor your recommendations to the type of reader the person is. For example, we had an intern at work, a reader who left to go to a religious college; I gifted her my copy of A Canticle for Liebowitz.

Allan wrote: "Ed wrote: "Allan wrote: "I would not start someone with Hyperion or Dhalgren, that's a sure way to scare a newbie away. ..."

It depends on who you are talking to. If the person normally reads comp..."

You trying to upset them?

Papaphilly wrote: "You trying to upset them?"

Just saying....

If someone likes reading books for entertainment and wants to try some SF, I might recommend one set of books.

If someone is an literature professor who thinks SF is all mindless trash I might recommend a different set of books.

Although really, I don't give many recommendations. I tend to just say "I like this" or "This is popular".

Ed wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "You trying to upset them?"

Just saying....

If someone likes reading books for entertainment and wants to try some SF, I might recommend one set of books.

If someone is an lite..."

I get that, but A Canticle for Leibowitz is not one I would expect to be recommended to a divinity student.

Papaphilly wrote: "..."

Oh, I see. You were replying to Allan. Carry on.

As it happens, I didn't care for either Hyperion or Dhalgren myself. And I've been reading this stuff for, hrm, 60+ years?
Anyway, my list of faves is upthread. FWIW....

Have fun, and read stuff you like. Stop when you don't. My 0.02 worth.

I haven’t read any science fiction since grade school and decided to take it up again now while in my 40s. I read Isaac Asimov’s robot series over the past two weeks and loved every book. So much so that I joined this group and the complete Foundation series has arrived at my doorstep.

Welcome, Chad. Don't limit yourself to Asimov. As good as he is, there are a lot of others out there. You might look through our Group Read folders for books of interest.

Chad: Outside of SF, what authors do you enjoy?

Dan wrote: "Chad: Outside of SF, what authors do you enjoy?"

Hey Dan, I enjoy non fiction by authors like Robert k. Massie and David McCullough. Excellent facts delivered in an enjoyable way. I enjoy fiction by authors like Anthony Trollope, Edith Wharton and Patrick O’Brian. I also enjoy murder mysteries and found the Robot series to be essentially murder mysteries in a setting that was brand new and interesting.

I’ve read some of Massie’s books, great historian. The best non-fiction I’ve read recently though is Say Nothing by Patrick Radden Keefe.

I started my sf with Asimov & Heinlein, but I moved on to reading all the Hugo & Nebula winners, and now finally to the even more ambitious goal of reading all the nominees, including retros. I expect to reach 50% by the end of this year, 301 books. So many styles, it depends on what you like.

W. Michael Gear is an anthropologist who writes some SF. I've enjoyed a couple of his trilogies. The Warriors of Spider starts one about an authoritarian galactic union being brought down by an expanding society, IIRC. It's been 15 years since I read it.

Outpost is the first of the Donovan trilogy with several interesting themes. There's faster than light space travel which turns out to be more of a crap shoot than anyone realized & the planet Donovan itself which has a really wild & complex ecosystem. The biology is particularly interesting.

Both have plenty of action plus a lot to think about.

Chad wrote: " I enjoy non fiction by authors like Robert k. Massie and David McCullough. Excellent facts delivered in an enjoyable way. I en..."

Given you enjoy Trollop and Wharton, perhaps try H.G. Wells' The Food of the Gods or Arthur Conan Doyle's The Lost World. Classic Jules Verne may also work.

Chad wrote: "Dan wrote: "Chad: Outside of SF, what authors do you enjoy?"

Hey Dan, I enjoy non fiction by authors like Robert k. Massie and David McCullough. Excellent facts delivered in an enjoyable way. I en..."

I envy you. Old enough to appreciate the writing and new enough to read it the first time. My suggestions is to read lots of different writers from the master's to the newest. Read different sub-genres. Understand you will find your niche and you may not like all the sub-genres or writers. That is part of the fun. Science Fiction has everything from the schlockiest to the truly cerebral in writing. There is no wrong choice, but the right choice for you.

This is a great group and everyone will be glad to give you enough suggestions from the different eras until you beg us to stop.

Have fun.

One approach, since you liked Asimov, would be to sample the Arthur C Clarke and Robert A Heinlein, collectively known as "the Big Three" of SF. A few titles:
Rendezvous with Rama
Childhood's End
The Door Into Summer
The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress
among many others.

I agree with the Big 3 recommendation. If you like short stories, all of them wrote a lot of those for the pulps & many have aged well. I'm reading a nonfiction book, Spacefarers: How Humans Will Settle the Moon, Mars, and Beyond, & keep chafing at the author's neglect of SF. He broadly mentions SF authors & their ideas that have either come to fruition or are getting close, but he doesn't give specific examples & all 3 have stories full of these since they were all interested in & well versed in the science of space flight. Well, as good as they could be for the time. Still, they got an amazing amount right & fired my imagination throughout my life.

I recommend Heinlein's books prior to 1970. He got weird & wordy after that.

Chad wrote: "I enjoy fiction by authors like Anthony Trollope, Edith Wharton and Patrick O’Brian. ...."

Chad: You might like David Drake's "Starliner": https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Great story. And (I think) still a freebie!

Allan wrote: "II started my sf with Asimov & Heinlein, but I moved on to reading all the Hugo & Nebula winners, and now finally to the even more ambitious goal of reading all the nominees, including retros. I expect to reach 50% by the end of this year, 301 books."

A worthy goal! Here's my personal & ever-changing Desert Island list of 100 Favorites: https://www.goodreads.com/review/list...
-- heavy on SF, and heavy on shorts. Much of the best of the genre is in short form. And a fair bit of it free to read online!

Jim wrote: "Outpost is the first of the Donovan trilogy with several interesting themes. There's faster than light space travel which turns out to be more of a crap shoot than anyone realized & the planet Donovan itself which has a really wild & complex ecosystem. The biology is particularly interesting"

Thanks for reminding me of this one, Jim. Our library system has a copy, and now that we can, once again, order books from that part of the system.....

Dan wrote: "Chad wrote: " I enjoy non fiction by authors like Robert k. Massie and David McCullough. Excellent facts delivered in an enjoyable way. I en..."

Given you enjoy Trollop and Wharton, perhaps try H...."

Thanks! Downloaded Food of the Gods to my kindle.

Jim wrote: "W. Michael Gear is an anthropologist who writes some SF. I've enjoyed a couple of his trilogies. The Warriors of Spider starts one about an authoritarian galactic union..."

Thanks Jim! I picked up Outpost. Sounds fun.

Clifford Simak was a Hugo winner and wrote some very engaging SciFi years ago. I recall Way Station was one of his. Earthy, often rural Science Fiction. A little different.

Simak definitely wrote some great classics.

Awhile back, I posted a Top 100 SF list that I compiled some years ago from various web sites. It could be very useful for a newbie to SF if they want to delve into the classics.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...