Christian Goodreaders discussion

Our (voluntary) common read of Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus by Nabeel Qureshi begins today, and this will be the thread where everyone who takes part can share comments, questions, background information, or anything else whatever relating to the book. (Hopefully access to the book won't pose too much of a problem, despite the pandemic!)

A 2009 article in Christianity Today (Dec. 2009, p. 32-5), "Muslim Followers of Jesus?" by Joseph Cumming of Yale Univ., might be a useful resource for some persons in this discussion. It's also useful, in better understanding Islam, to read The Qur'an (sometimes transliterated in English as the Koran --Arabic and English letters don't have an exact one-on-one correspondence), since that book and its interpretation is so central to discussions of the religion.

Since our group's co-moderator Ron just finished reading this book (and brought to it an already broad background of reading and prior interest in the subject), and will be taking an active part in the discussion, I've decided to sit this read out myself. But I'll be following this thread with great interest!

Greetings, friends,

This is an interesting and engaging book. A little slow at the start but a page-turner before it ends. (Try to avoid spoilers, I suggest you not google Nabeel Qureshi until you have finished the book.)

By way of introduction, I am a retired veteran who paints watercolors and writes, mostly fiction. My only published work is Living in the Spirit: Paul's Timeless Message to Christians, a study of Romans.

I lived in Saudi Arabia twice in the 1980s, working close enough with several members of the Royal Saudi Air Force that we often discussed our respective beliefs. I’ve read a dozen books about Muslim beliefs and conversions as well as dozens on Christian apologetics.

I have the book and plan to begin today!

Where could I find the article? I don't have a subscription to Christianity Today, so am unable to read it on their website.

Melissa, good question! Probably your best bet would be to get it from a library. Your local library's holdings of Christianity Today most likely won't go that far back (if they even subscribe to it), because public libraries usually don't keep periodicals that long. But academic libraries are more apt to, so you can request it through interlibrary loan. The lending library will probably send the article electronically, and your library will probably pass it on to you the same way.

Ask at your local library about their ILL procedures. If you want to, to save them time and trouble, you can tell the librarian that our three-letter OCLC WorldShare code here at the Bluefield College library is PYX (he/she will know what that means), and that we have the article and will gladly loan it.

“Effective evangelism requires relationships.”
Nabeel is a member of a close, loving family in a close, loving Ahmadiyya (moderate) Muslim Community. He knows who Jesus is and isn’t interested in letting him out of that pigeonhole.
But he becomes friends with an equally intelligent, dedicated Christian.
His story is so different from all these abused-Muslim-female-suffers stories, partly because he is an American male, but mostly because he has a Christian friend.
What other relationships contribute to Nabeel's experience?

As both the printed and Kindle editions looked expensive to me, I decided for a change to go for the audiobook, using one of my Audible credits. Looking forward to listening.
There's something of a trap, though. There are two Audible releases with the same title. One of them is a series of lectures by Nabeel, rather than the audiobook.

I listened to the audio book and it is read by Nabeel himself. It made for a really smooth and engaging listening experience.

I liked this exchange between Nabeel and David:
“Then what hope is there for us, David?” “Only the grace of God.” “But why would He give me His grace?” “Because He loves you.” “Why would he love me, a sinner?” "Because He’s your Father.”

Ron wrote: "I liked this exchange between Nabeel and David:
“Then what hope is there for us, David?” “Only the grace of God.” “But why would He give me His grace?” “Because He loves you.” “Why would he love me..."

I liked that exchange too. They had several really good ones.

Given recent controversy, that's an encouraging story about a Virginia policeman intervening on behalf of Nabeels’ sister on 9-11.

“It’s okay so long as you don’t get caught.” An excellent inside comparison of the Muslim Honor and shame approach to life as opposed to the Christian innocence and guilt perspective. Knowing the difference is one key to understanding their differing worldview and behavior.
I lived in Saudi Arabia long enough to confirm this. Such a different worldview is hard to understand. Changing it must be even more difficult.
Do you feel Nabeel's struggle?

Ron wrote: "“It’s okay so long as you don’t get caught.” An excellent inside comparison of the Muslim Honor and shame approach to life as opposed to the Christian innocence and guilt perspective. Knowing the d..."

I found Nabeel's descriptions of and comparisons of these two different systems fascinating. I have heard of the shame/honor idea in many eastern cultures, but I had never had it so simply and yet thoroughly explained. It really gave me some new insight.

I think it is really interesting how Nabeel struggles with and even more feverishly wants to defend his Islamic identity which taught against the deity of Jesus and denied the Christian belief in the Trinity. It is revelatory to him in his science class that, just as one molecule can have more than one resonance structure, and that a "being" and a "person" are not the same thing and he comes to understand that God is one being with three persons - "a triune entity was possible."

It is fascinating that arguments about religion and science exist, but here Nabeel has seen in science an explanation for a religious belief.

Another notable takeaway from Nabeel is his realization that Eastern Islamic cultures judge truth through lines of authority, in this case through religious authorities; while Western cultures tend to judge truth through reasoning and individual critical thinking. This difference makes for difficult transitions and clashes.

“It’s ok so long as you don’t get caught.” I’ve seen plenty of “Westerners” have that view, though none of them real Christians. Therefore, this distinction was a bit baffling and oversimplified for me.

“ his realization that Eastern Islamic cultures judge truth through lines of authority, in this case through religious authorities; while Western cultures tend to judge truth through reasoning and individual critical thinking”

This is also a more recent development. My grandparents’ generation relied a lot more on authorities than we do these days. (This was in Germany, not the US, but still a Western culture)

He’s oversimplifying a lot in these chapters.

We rely on authorities more than we admit, too.

Ron wrote: "We rely on authorities more than we admit, too."

That is most probably true, but there seems to be more skepticism as everyone seems to be an "authority" of some sort. With an educated society there is the ability to read, research, and study many different views to derive knowledge and not blindly follow what a small group is telling us.

I am still reading the first part of this book. I found it interesting that to his parents and others being American is being Christian.

Elizabeth A.G. wrote: "Ron wrote: "We rely on authorities more than we admit, too."

That is most probably true, but there seems to be more skepticism as everyone seems to be an "authority" of some sort. With an educated..."

That is absolutely true. But we're lazy and rushed and emotional, so we often let someone else think for us.

Ron wrote: "That is absolutely true. But we're lazy and rushed and emotional, so we often let someone else think for us."

There's also (as media moguls in every country understand very well!), an enormous psychological predisposition to imagine that the "news" as it's being presented to you on TV with an aura of "authority," actually represents unfiltered Reality with a capital R. In the U.S., the power to present that "Reality," when I was a child growing up in the 50s and 60s, rested with a tiny oligopoly with just three networks. Now, with the advent of cable TV, it's a slightly less tiny oligopoly; but its psychological power isn't much diminished, and it's still used as much to manipulate as to "inform."

That, too. I was thinking of how many of our daily decisions--even life impacting ones--are made by following the path of least resistance: doing as our parents did, our peers do, our neighbors do.
Certainly folks like the media, advertisers, politicians, and a host of others consciously feed us a world view which fits their good, not necessarily ours.
We were warned about following the world.

Ron wrote: "That, too. I was thinking of how many of our daily decisions--even life impacting ones--are made by following the path of least resistance: doing as our parents did, our peers do, our neighbors do...."

Yes, and I think uprooting his parents' firm traditions and beliefs is why Nabeel's journey and decision are so difficult for him. He is aware how his decision will affect his parents who had been so diligent about teaching him his Muslim traditions and faith.

“I don’t know who you are anymore, but I know that You are all that matters.”
Nabeel also believes in the efficacy of dreams and visions, unlike many modern Christians. He prays for a dream or vision expecting to get one. He has a firm enough belief in God that his crisis is know who God was, not whether he is.
Many of the philosophic and religious arguments for and against religion in general and these religions in particular were insufficient to him; he knows God is.

Agree ~ so amazing how many other faiths depict their God using dreams to reach and instruct their believers?

Elizabeth A.G. wrote: "I think it is really interesting how Nabeel struggles with and even more feverishly wants to defend his Islamic identity which taught against the deity of Jesus and denied the Christian belief in t..."

I really liked that revelation Nabeel had. I have heard many different ways of describing how the Trinity works, but that one I had not heard before and the idea that there is something else in this world that can be three-in-one all at the same time like that is fascinating to me.

I liked the book on several levels. Nabeel's journey was inspiring in terms of his progressive intellectual and spiritual acceptance of the Christian faith, and fascinating with respect to his cultural transition as he grew up in a Western/US culture. But as an author I was also impressed by his use of narrative autobiography, fashioning conversations that he states in his introduction did not actually take place as described. He skillfully carries the reader along, even if some of the conversations were a little contrived.
An excellent book, all the more poignant as you realise what happened at the end.

I finally finished the book. I started with the ebook, then switched to the audiobook. I’m glad we did this. I think I understand a Muslim’s struggle when learning about the real Jesus better now.

Yes, Often times we as Americans have little comprehending experican with Muslims and any non- Christian beliefs and believers.