Political Debates discussion

do you believe the world (united states specifically) needs more gun laws? why or why not?

discuss!

Well I think guns should be allowed BECAUSE!! If someone bust down your door and has an illegal gun and starts firing at you are you just gonna sit there and watch? Bring out your pocket knife??? Most people don’t know self defense so what’s a knife gonna do against a gun?

I think that there should be a LOT more restrictions on who gets to own a gun.

i agree.

I believe that guns shouldn't be completely banned, but the laws to be stricter. There should be a ton more restrictions on who gets to own a gun and who doesn't.

For those that think there should be more gun laws, there are over 40,000 gun laws in the United States right now. How many more do you think we need?

I don't think anyone needs guns except the police, army, and maybe if you have a license. Things in Australia are pretty peaceful when it comes to guns... so I think it should definitely be limited. Because, maybe it will make you feel safer, but they're also very dangerous, and some little kids have killed other people accidentally because of guns. Also, older people will have more power to kill, already 39,773 people die per year because of guns!!!

I understand that people need guns for self-defense, but some take it too far. And I used to think that all law enforcement needed guns. But clearly, a lot of them just don't know how to handle a gun and how to not shoot an unarmed POC. I just think we need to be WAY more selective with whom we give guns to. And if someone misuses a gun, they should be held accountable. Their jurisdiction for the crime committed with the gun should not change because of their complexion or position in law enforcement.

I feel like guns in the US have gotten to point where you really just cant ban them, they're everywhere it seems.
I know Andrew Yang, one of the presential candidates had a plan to have some sort of id instilled into guns so that only the owner can use them, or something like that.
I think that would help in cases of school shootings where the kids steal their parents guns.
But if it were possible, guns should just be eradicated even for police.

Papaphilly wrote: "For those that think there should be more gun laws, there are over 40,000 gun laws in the United States right now. How many more do you think we need?"

I don't think there should be more, I think that they should be stricter and actually enforced.

We definitely need more laws and restrictions. Because guns are so easy to get, it adds to more hate crimes and school shootings, which is NOT okay.

Criminals, by nature, don't obey gun bans or gun-free zones or anything like that. We do have a problem enforcing existing gun laws. And because states don't like to share information, one state may not know that someone is a convicted felon until months later.

Most mass shooting are committed by the mentally ill. Asylums were shut down for being inhumane, but the residents mostly became homeless instead.

Fully automatic weapons are already banned and have been since the 30s?

Guns have a low tolerance for stupidity. If not treated with care and respect, they'll hurt the owner.

More people are killed each year by fists and feat and blunt objects like hammers than guns.

Guns are used defensively all the time, saving between 500,000 and 3 million lives annually (US).

The Constitution protects the right to self-defense because you don't have a right to life without it, and it's the last stop before tyranny. The first gun control laws were enacted to keep blacks from defending themselves; they were too hard to lynch when armed. Was it the Wounded Knee massacre where the American Indians were killed after being persuaded to give their arms?

BringerOfBooks wrote: "We definitely need more laws and restrictions. Because guns are so easy to get, it adds to more hate crimes and school shootings, which is NOT okay."

OK, fair enough. Yet, you would remove legal guns because of illegal activity?

Lanae Anne wrote: "I understand that people need guns for self-defense, but some take it too far. And I used to think that all law enforcement needed guns. But clearly, a lot of them just don't know how to handle a g..."

Em J. wrote: "I just read a book about gun safety, so my views have changed a bit. I definitely believe that not just anyone should own a gun. Especially big ones that can kill multiple people in seconds. I beli..."

Agreed.

Hello.

I'm curious, how many of the anti-firearms side of this debate have significant experience with firearms? And how many have ever bought or sold a firearm?

Jaiden wrote: "I'm 11, none for me. But I think my grandparents have."

Jaiden,

It seems to me that at this point in your life you would be better served by a conversation with your parents, than by chatting with strangers on the internet. Your parents are the ones who love and care for you, mind them well.

As for the curiosity that you seem to have about firearms, guns are tools, not toys. Their safe and proper use is a lifelong discipline which does not tolerate foolishness. If you find a gun, do not touch it. Leave it where it is, and go tell an adult right away.

Jaiden wrote: "J. wrote: "Jaiden wrote: "I'm 11, none for me. But I think my grandparents have."

Jaiden,

It seems to me that at this point in your life you would be better served by a conversation with your par..."
totally understandable! no judgment :)

Jaiden wrote: "J. wrote: "Jaiden wrote: "I'm 11, none for me. But I think my grandparents have."

Jaiden,

It seems to me that at this point in your life you would be better served by a conversation with your par..."

You were not called an idiot. It is good advice to a younger person from an older person. Actually, it is good advice to anyone.

J. wrote: "Jaiden wrote: "I'm 11, none for me. But I think my grandparents have."

Jaiden,

It seems to me that at this point in your life you would be better served by a conversation with your parents, than ..."

It's understandable why she's here - the majority of us in this group are teens or tweens, coming from an old political debate group that was for all ages under 18.

just reminding everyone, this group is for all ages, but if you cannot respect the age & maturity of different people, than please leave this discussion.

Jaiden,

Nobody called you an idiot.

I'll be 44 in a few months. In those 33 extra years I have been through experiences, both good and bad, of which you have only a dim understanding. Not having lived through these experiences, yet, does not reflect upon your intelligence. It only means that you have many wonderful, and a few awful, things still to come. Life goes by fast, so take your time and enjoy the ride.

Because of those extra years, my words, when conversing with you, are posted with a care to your parents. I know that if my child were chatting with strangers, I would be very concerned about what these strangers told my child, and what their motivations were. So I am careful in what I post, out of respect to your parents.

Jaiden wrote: "Okay, one thing? I'm just confused of why you're saying this? Like I get it. And the only reason I'm here is for role-play and debate. And if anything, these 'strangers' have helped my through the ..."

I'm saying this because you insinuated that I called you an idiot, when what I did was try to give good advice to a kid.

Jaiden wrote: "I'm not 'a kid'"

OK, I will bite. Have you reached the age of majority?

Jaiden wrote: "I'm not 'a kid'"

Because your post is struck through, I am uncertain of its intent.

If its intent is as written, then I only need to point out that you began your response to my initial post, "I'm 11...".

If your intent is other than as written, please advise. I sometimes get confused about modern on-line vernacular.

Jaiden wrote: "Okay, yeah, but being 11 doesn't mean you're a kid."

Yes it does.

it technically does, though. being a kid isn't an insult

all right guys, this was not was the intent of this debate group. i would like for everyone to be able to have respectful and polite conversations with others, regardless of their age, gender, race etc. if you cannot do that please leave this group. if i see any disrespect or violation of the rules in this group, i will remove you. this discussion is for gun laws specifically and i would like to keep it that way.

that being said, how does everyone feel about school shootings in relation to gun control?

@Mel and @Jaiden that's horrible. how could they even allow that to happen at your schools? don't they have any type of security guards at the front of the school?

@Mel well I don't know why they wouldn't check your bags.



@Jaiden And at least they got suspended and they got some type of learning experience out of it.

I guess it does to them. I just wish that teachers, staff members, and students could feel more safe at their schools from gun violence.

A lot of my friends here are under 13, and I don't think this should be an issue in the debate group right now.

Once a kid brought a butterfly knife to school

a kid brought a butterfly knife to school once, he got a couple days home from school then came back.
i've also had multiple boys sexually assualt one of my friends. grabbing her boobs and butt. they got a couple days of having to stay after school for a couple of hours and gave a measly apology. that was it. they continued to make comments about her body afterwards. and since i go to a ''good school' (its a charter school and is technically not part of the school district) no one wants to leave because getting in is hard (a long waiting list) and the other schools are overrun with drugs and scary people who cause my friends and I's anxiety to go haywire.
i think school's need to be more iron fisted when it comes to these things. this relates back to gun control in the way that we need to teach why bringing weapons to school is bad (this should already be known, but not a lot of people know this i guess) and maybe if schools paid attention to the students who are bullied or mentally ill (these are just stereotypes im sorry) they could cut down on the students who decided to shoot in their school.

also, i think we need stricter laws on who can buy a gun. like background checks. if you have violent tendencies, i do not think you should be allowed to have a gun.
most excuses ive seen that people say they need their guns for are stupid. id the government is gonna try and attack you, your gun isnt going to help. they have TANKS. you have a SHOTGUN. it doesnt take a genius to figure out whos gonna win.
and if someone is robbing your house and holding you at gunpoint, maybe if we had stricter gun laws, they wouldnt have been able to get the gun.
guns can KILL and MURDER people. they should be treated with the upmost respect and caution

J. wrote: "Jaiden,

Nobody called you an idiot.

I'll be 44 in a few months. In those 33 extra years I have been through experiences, both good and bad, of which you have only a dim understanding. Not having ..."
you may think that you are not calling her an idiot. but with all due respect i see where Jaiden is coming from. just because jaiden is younger, it does make her/his/their feeling less valid. adult tend to think that because are younger, or because we have hormones our feelings just dont matter right now, but that is not the case. just because you have way more life experience than us does not make our feelings or curiosities any less valid. and it doesnt make yours any less valid either. most adults in my life if i want a question answered, they either wont answer it or answer it with bias. so i may ask older people on the internet. while talking over the internet comes with its dangers, it also helps younger people like myself find people like them. who have the same struggles and viewpoints. it makes me feel less alone.
im going to end this message because its pretty long (sorry about that lol) im going to end it with saying i am truly in awe of your 44 years of life experience, and you must have some amazing stories. i hope i can do that one day, but i think i need to happy with myself first lol, which will take awhile.

Kaidence wrote: "just putting this out there that the age you're actually allowed to joing GR is thirteen.
you're 11 meaning you're not supposed to be here."
age does not equal maturity, you could be a younger age and be mature, or an older person could be immature (ive met fuckers like this who think that because they are older than me they can order me around, or there more mature.)
Jaiden has been contributing good points to the debates, so I don't see why her/his/their age is relevant

BringerOfBooks wrote: "also, i think we need stricter laws on who can buy a gun. like background checks. if you have violent tendencies, i do not think you should be allowed to have a gun.
most excuses ive seen that peo..."

Let's take these one at a time.

"also, i think we need stricter laws on who can buy a gun. like background checks. if you have violent tendencies, i do not think you should be allowed to have a gun..."

When buying a firearm from an FFL, US citizens already have to confirm their identities and fill out a questionnaire about their legal eligibility to purchase a firearm. That form is sent to the FBI for verification. Convicted felons, non-citizens, and minors are automatically excluded from making the purchase. The notable failures in this system have usually occurred on the government side. Often by various alphabet agencies not updating the FBI files for ineligibility. The single most notable failure was when the ATF, under Obama, ordered gun dealers near the US/Mexico border to make straw sales with which those FFLs were uncomfortable. That was "Too Fast, Too Furious". The Mexican death toll should hang around the ATF and Obama administration's necks. It seems that you are asking for more laws that the government can arbitrarily enforce against mostly law abiding citizens

"...most excuses ive seen that people say they need their guns for are stupid. id the government is gonna try and attack you, your gun isnt going to help. they have TANKS. you have a SHOTGUN. it doesnt take a genius to figure out whos gonna win..."

This argument has always been odd to me. As near as I can work out, the proponents of this argument are saying, "You can't win, so just get down on your knees and grovel, like good sheeple." Would you have had the nerve to say that to the people of France, as the Nazi heel came down on their necks? I can't think of a position that offers more incouragment to despots.

"...and if someone is robbing your house and holding you at gunpoint, maybe if we had stricter gun laws, they wouldnt have been able to get the gun..."

If they couldn't get the gun, they would come with axes, machetes, bats, and knives. But for over half of the country, it would still be over half an hour before anything with flashing lights showed up. Doesn't seem like a big victory.

"...guns can KILL and MURDER people..."

Let me fix that for you. "...People with guns can KILL and MURDER people..." Far more accurate, now.

"...they should be treated with the upmost respect and caution"

On that point, we agree.

Jaiden wrote: "Thanks for that @BringerOfBooks"

anytime

J. wrote: "BringerOfBooks wrote: "also, i think we need stricter laws on who can buy a gun. like background checks. if you have violent tendencies, i do not think you should be allowed to have a gun.
most ex..."
thanks for the clarifications i guess :)

J. wrote: "BringerOfBooks wrote: "also, i think we need stricter laws on who can buy a gun. like background checks. if you have violent tendencies, i do not think you should be allowed to have a gun.
most ex..."

Also about the groveling thing, if you have a shotgun, the governments tank is not going to be damaged by your shotgun. also i am offended that you compared my mediocre example to the fucking N*zis. we put our trust (and our money currently) towards the military. the military should protect america, if not then why the fuck are they still here.

BringerOfBooks wrote: "Also about the groveling thing, if you have a shotgun, the governments tank is not going to be damaged by your shotgun. also i am offended that you compared my mediocre example to the fucking N*zis. we put our trust (and our money currently) towards the military. the military should protect america, if not then why the fuck are they still here."

Did you just post that you're OFFENDED that I compared your hypothetical evil regime, with a penchant for tanks, to an actual evil regime, with a penchant for tanks? Being offended is not an argument.

Yes, the military is our major line of defense against foreign aggression. What do we do if they fail, or if they turn on us?

յαïdεη ⊕ƒ †hε šεαωïηgš wrote: "...You shouldn't compare anything to the Nazi"

The whole point of an apt example is being able to compare it to a point of discussion.

um yea the one difference in my example, was-
one- i was talking about the fucking us's tanks, and
two- yes. I am "OFFENDED" as you so offendedly stated.

and if the military turns on you, an american citizen, then thats a whole other fucking problem

յαïdεη ⊕ƒ †hε šεαωïηgš wrote: "J. wrote: "յαïdεη ⊕ƒ †hε šεαωïηgš wrote: "...You shouldn't compare anything to the Nazi"

The whole point of an apt example is being able to compare it to a point of discussion."

Well, no one can ..."
Thank you @Jaiden :)

BringerOfBooks wrote: "and if the military turns on you, an american citizen, then thats a whole other fucking problem"

That's the Battles of Lexington and Concord. Your liberty exists because ordinary people said, "I will not submit."

յαïdεη ⊕ƒ †hε šεαωïηgš wrote: "Well, no one can be worse than the Nazi, so I get what @BringerOfBooks means"

Your statement implies a scale. Scales exist for the purpose of making comparisons.

J. wrote: "BringerOfBooks wrote: "and if the military turns on you, an american citizen, then thats a whole other fucking problem"

That's the Battles of Lexington and Concord. Your liberty exists because ord..."
um yea the British marched on concord because america wanted to break free and the british wanted to seize a weapons cache. what the men did on that hill was heroic, because they were fighting for their freedom. if you fight against the government its not heroic you already have fucking have freedom.

յαïdεη ⊕ƒ †hε šεαωïηgš wrote: "J. wrote: "յαïdεη ⊕ƒ †hε šεαωïηgš wrote: "Well, no one can be worse than the Nazi, so I get what @BringerOfBooks means"

Your statement implies a scale. Scales exist for the purpose of making compa..."
@Jaiden's right

յαïdεη ⊕ƒ †hε šεαωïηgš wrote: "You do realize how bad the nazis were right? Comparing others to them is slightly disgraceful. No one deserves the rudeness of being compared to those people."

Josef Stalin
Mao Tse-Tung
Pol Pot
Francisco Franco