Political Debates discussion

where does every stand on abortion? do you believe it’s okay? are you against it. do you think it should only be allowed in certain circumstances?

discuss!

Pro choice. It’s literally in the name - ‘choice’. No one should ever have less of a say over they’re own body (unless they’re a minor ofc).

Aliyah wrote: "Pro choice. It’s literally in the name - ‘choice’. No one should ever have less of a say over they’re own body (unless they’re a minor ofc)."

i agree! i think that pro-lifers can tend to forget that pro choice does not mean pro abortion. i believe everyone should have the rights to their own body.

Mint wrote: "if someone is raped, I think they should have the option of abortion. rape is absolutely disgusting and getting pregnant because of it is horrible"

definitely.

Mint wrote: "if someone is raped, I think they should have the option of abortion. rape is absolutely disgusting and getting pregnant because of it is horrible"

For sure!

i think generally people agree that if a women is raped, she should have access to an abortion. but what if a woman just does not want to go through with a pregnancy? thoughts on that?

If she can't go through with it then sure she has rights to have an abortion I'm pro choice. Pro lifers are really just pro birth because they are putting women who have a MISCARRIAGE on the death penalty thinking it's abortion

Braylynn wrote: "If she can't go through with it then sure she has rights to have an abortion I'm pro choice. Pro lifers are really just pro birth because they are putting women who have a MISCARRIAGE on the death ..."

i definitely agree. i am also fully pro choice and wil always believe that a woman has the right to her own body.

yeah i feel as if people who are pro birth ( i dont consider them pro life because they arent ) are really just wanting kids to be born not matter the circumstances meaning if they are put up for adoption ( which is already bad as is because it gives kids trama) and the moms health the kids health anything really they just the kid born

Who said miscarriage deserves the death penalty? I have never heard that. That's not a mainstream view.

Honestly, abortion sickens me. The main methods are done by either dismembering a fetus or burning it with chemicals and waiting for it to die. Late-term abortion involves lethal injection and then delivering a dead baby. Attempts to at least require anesthesia for these procedures have been shot down.

If you choose to have sex with your body, you choose to accept the consequences. You can't smoke and then refuse to accept cancer. If you're not responsible enough for a possible baby, you're not responsible enough for sex.

In rape that choice was taken, which is why pretty much everyone is okay with it in that case. If the mother's life is in danger, usually they can just deliver the baby early and be fine.

I also wonder why someone would choose to be pregnant six, seven, eight months and then have an abortion. Why not do it right away? That's never made sense to me.

Adoption is prohibitively expensive in this country, and that should be fixed. Organizations that want to shelter women and infants who have no support are shut down if they don't provide abortion services. And a lot of women are traumatized by having an abortion but are told they aren't allowed to feel that way.

@Audrey I’ve never seen or even heard of an abortion done after 6 months. I don’t think that’s even possible? Correct me if I’m wrong about that.

@Alan so you think even if a person is raped, they should go through with the pregnancy?
Even if you do believe that, no offence but you shouldn’t be calling the shots about that if it’s not YOUR body.
You think that a rape victim should bare the child of a rapist? That’s on you but I don’t think your in the right to call that for anyone else.

About 16% of the world population is catholic so what he says is only relevant to that minority, which I’m not included in.
But aside from being against all abortions, what do you suggest should be done about them? Since you have such strong opinions, surely you know about 30,000 women die yearly from botched abortions so making them illegal would just force women to risk their lives? And surely you’d know what limited resources the US gov provides to mothers in need? Or how underfunded the foster system is?
You can’t be against something without an alternative if your actually ‘pro LIFE’ why is it that as a majority pro lifers protest abortion clinics and not taking in kids in the system where suicide rates are at an all time high? Please let me know what you think should be done.

thank you for all of your opinions!

do you all believe that the best way to stop abortions is to ban them totally? what about woman who die from illegal/unsafe abortions? studies show that MORE abortions happen in countries where abortion is banned than in countries where it’s not. thoughts?

I’m pro-choice. The fetus isn’t sentient by the time an abortion is done, the pregnant person should have the right to decide whether or not they want to put themselves through the pain of a pregnancy and birth when it could ruin their whole life plan. And rape is another problem, even if they are raped they can’t get an abortion, that’s very unfair.

Abortions will always be a thing, we just have to make sure they’re legal so they’re safer.

Audrey wrote: "Who said miscarriage deserves the death penalty? I have never heard that. That's not a mainstream view.

Honestly, abortion sickens me. The main methods are done by either dismembering a fetus or b..."
(i did more research so this will be with tons of facts and statistics)
Pro birth people (mostly republicans) want to sign bills for women to be charged for homicide
"Texas lawmakers are considering a bill that would ban abortion in the state and charge women who have abortions with homicide, which can carry the death penalty in the state." - nbc news
this is for texas.

it also says this "“A living human child, from the moment of fertilization on fusion of a human spermatozoon with a human ovum, is entitled to the same rights, powers, and privileges as are secured or granted by the laws of this state to any other human child," the text of the bill reads.

Why should a ball of cells be able to have the same rights as an actual living thing ? if you think i should then think about this. if the mother dies giving birth or dies in general because of the child then when the child is born they should be charged with homicide. but they are a baby why would you do that. because your logic they should be charged since they have the same the same rights as any other human child. sounds ridiculous doesnt it.

for something that doesnt even speak holds alot of power. but for women who are LIVING are charged homicide doesnt make sense since they had a MISCARRIAGE

if you supposedly arent responsible enough to have sex then why would you want them to have a baby? if your so worried about just the baby. think about the mother. here all the reason why women get abortions :
Research collected from 2008 through 2010 asked women about the reasons for getting an abortion.1

 Some listed multiple reasons for their decision. The reasons, and the percentage of women who gave each one, are:

Not financially prepared: 40%
Bad timing, not ready, or unplanned: 36%
Partner-related reasons (including the relationship is bad or new, she doesn't want to be a single mother, her partner is not supportive, does not want the baby, is abusive, or is the wrong guy): 31%
Need to focus on her other children: 29%
Interferes with educational or vocational plans: 20%
Not emotionally or mentally prepared: 19%
Health-related reasons (includes concern for her own health, the health of the fetus, use of prescription or non-prescription drugs, alcohol, or tobacco): 12%
Want a better life for a baby than she could provide: 12%
Not independent or mature enough for a baby: 7%
Influences from family or friends: 5%
Doesn't want a baby or to place the baby for adoption: 4%
do you see that your whole argument isnt all the reasons listed you all are saying the mother just doesn't want the baby. thats 4% of women. which yes is alot but not as much as the rest.

do you see there is so many different reasons. it is not considered murder. the fetus is not considered a human being until 16 weeks or later so the 3RD TRIMESTER. Facts, conservatives are fond of saying, do not care about your feelings. That is, unless they are conservative feelings, which we are expected to treat with unerring delicacy, even when they are scientifically unfounded. There are a great many facts that conservatives feel comfortable ignoring when it comes to the abortion debate. They can pretend fetuses are indistinguishable from babies, despite the fact that medical evidence tells us fetuses cannot live unsupported, even with a respirator before 21 weeks. They can pretend they feel pain, even though scientific consensus tells us that until at least 24 weeks, a fetus cannot feel anything like pain because they do not yet have the brain connections to do so.

They can pretend that every fertilized egg is a human, ignoring the fact that the majority do not actually make it to birth and this does not seem to upset people overmuch. (Jill Filipovic, lawyer and author of The H-Spot: The Feminist Pursuit of Happiness, has quite reasonably pointed out that, “There has been no concerted anti-abortion effort to demand research funding into why all of these fertilized eggs die, or to find a cure. Perhaps that’s because even the most active anti-abortion advocates know the truth is that a fertilized egg is not the same as a three-year-old, and they do not genuinely believe that it has the same right to life.”)

They can pretend that abortions cause women horrible psychological damage, although they do not. Or that women who have them are plagued by regret (results of a 2015 study showed that approximately 95 percent of women who had abortions claimed it was the right decision for them). They can say that women who have abortions are somehow unusually promiscuous (pre-marital sex is "nearly universal" in America, according to a 2007 study, and has been for decades), or that women could easily avoid having them by being on birth control (more than half of women who get abortions are also using contraception).As they do so, they continue to set up “crisis pregnancy centers” with the aim of lying to women and distributing scientifically discredited information about abortion.

But they do not get to pretend that women who have had abortions are murderers who should be hanged.

Abortion is not murder.

Even if we granted the most generous possible terms to the anti-abortion camp, even if we pretended the fetus was fully rational and contemplating Shakespeare in the womb, like an Ian McEwan character, abortion would still not be murder.

In large part, that’s because anti-abortionist’s argument hinges upon the notion that life is always sacred and ought never be taken. That is not the way the world operates.Some pro-lifers are fond of exclaiming that we should treat fertilized ovum with reverence since “A single cell discovered on Mars [would] be considered life!”

Yes. And if that life posed any threat to us, we’d kill it immediately.

One has a strong sense that people who invoke that argument have never seen a movie about what happens when humans encounter life in outer space.

But even in the case of human life, there are a great many situations where, when one life poses a threat to another, that life can reasonably be taken.

As for the notion that the fetus is non-threatening—it’s impossible to deny that a fetus poses a risk to a woman, purely because she has to use her body to incubate it. And in America, she has to do so in a country with the worst rate of maternal deaths in the developed world.

"A fetus poses a risk to a woman, purely because she has to use her body to incubate it. And in America, she has to do so in a country with the worst rate of maternal deaths in the developed world."

If you think “okay, but that only happens to poor women” well, no, but low income women do face greater risks. That is one reason that denying women the right to abortion is a kind of class warfare. Seventy-three percent of women seeking abortions do so because they’re financially unready to have a child. Legal abortions are considerably safer than childbirth. So, if you believe in abortion only in cases where it endangers the life of the mother, well, welcome to America, one of the few countries where the maternal death rate is on the rise. Pregnancy always endangers the life of a mother.

Even if a pregnancy is healthy and relatively free of complications, it’s a grueling process.

We rarely talk about how difficult pregnancy can be. Socially, we often opt to talk about how “pregnancy is a beautiful experience”. But the notion that pregnancy is just this carefree experience doesn’t take into account the vomiting, the gestational diabetes, hemorrhoids, bowel problems, incontinence, or any of the common complications that follow pregnancy and birth. Even if you are blessed with an easy pregnancy, some reports say as many as 95 percent of first-time mothers experience vaginal tearing. You’d think that the likelihood of lacerations that require stitches around your genitals alone would discount the rhetoric that a woman can easily just have a baby and put it up for adoption.
There is a reason those pro-birth ads show a fetus magically suspended in darkness, as though it just appears painlessly and does not necessitate the bodily sacrifice of another human.

Because that’s not true.

Happily carrying a fetus to term is an act of the most profound, generous love precisely because it does entail pain and sacrifice. That should never be forced on anyone.

People do have a right to life, but they do not have a right to live inside someone else’s body especially when doing so poses a threat to that person’s body. Hell, to paraphrase famous penis exposer and former comedian, Louis C.K., people aren’t even allowed to live inside your house without your consent. That’s based on the Castle Doctrine, which allows individuals to use force—up to and including deadly force—to remove individuals trespassing in their homes who they have reason to think pose a threat to them. In the case of pregnancy, keep in mind there’s a 95 percent chance that intruder will be tearing up your genitals.

This notion that a man’s home is his castle and a woman’s body is somehow a vacant space to be used by men as they wish—whether they wish to grab it by the pussy or use it as a “host” for a fetus—is one area where Trump’s more licentious followers can find common ground with Mike Pence’s devoutly religious ones.

Most people’s bodies are, correctly, assumed to belong to the soul inhabiting them. They—and all their parts—belong to them in perpetuity, even after they have ceased to live. Doctors in the U.S. can’t even use a deceased person’s organs to save other lives unless the prior inhabitant of that body has agreed in writing, despite the fact that an estimated 20 people a day die in the U.S. waiting for transplants. (And presumably, the removal of those organs would not endanger the wellbeing of the person, who is already brain dead.)

The government using pregnant women’s bodies would require no such consent from the women.

“Consent” of course, is a word that seems to carry greater weight when applied to men than women. It is not mysterious that the same party who cannot understand why women might feel great tenderness and love towards a deeply desired fetus, yet none towards an unwanted fetus, can’t seem to figure out why women might consider sex joyful in circumstances when it is desired, and violating when it is not.But then, a “good” woman is basically supposed to be a giving tree who consents to whatever men ask. A woman who doesn’t consent to just about anything asked of her, whether it’s entering a “caring career” or carrying a baby to term, is very quickly labeled selfish.

We might do better to consider whether what is being asked of women is grossly unreasonable.

And frankly, if, rather than the government, any individual were to force a woman to have a baby against her will, it would be clear how unreasonable that request was.

My husband and I are trying to have a child. If we can’t conceive naturally, would we be happy to adopt? Of course. That would be a wonderful blessing. Would we threaten a pregnant woman who didn’t want to give birth with terrible consequences (up to and including death) if she refused to bear a child for us, simply because we wanted one? No, because we are not sociopaths who think other people exist solely for our benefit. If that’s obvious to us (people who would really love to have a child), it should be very obvious to a party that has absolutely no interest in providing happy, healthy life for that child once they’re born. As The Daily Intelligencer reports, "the GOP believes that it’s more urgent to deliver tax cuts to corporate America than to guarantee health care to working-class children."

But this was never really about babies.

do you see how much information i gave you. this is alot so make sure you are reading right

do you see how much i wrote. i have never seen any pro birth people give me ACTUAL facts besides "its murder"
im pro choice and always will be

Alan wrote: "fair enough :)"

thank you.

you all can have your opinions but these are facts. if you want abortion illegal then just know a fetus that ISNT EVEN BORN makes a mother at risk for getting an unsafe abortion because they can have that baby. do not tell me if i was raped that i needed to carry my rapist baby. no. do you know how disgusting that is.

I’m going to explain a scenario. A 16 year old girl gets raped. Gets pregnant. She gets bullied. Kicked out of school. Fired from her job. Her family disowns her. Her friends leave her. She wanted an abortion. But she couldn’t get one. And you know what happens to the rapist? He walks free, no pregnancy, his life as he knows it isn’t ruined. I’m not saying this always happens but all of these things can absolutely happen. A 16 year olds life and future can be ruined because they were a victim of an awful crime and yet she was the one who had consequences.

BookishBee wrote: "I’m going to explain a scenario. A 16 year old girl gets raped. Gets pregnant. She gets bullied. Kicked out of school. Fired from her job. Her family disowns her. Her friends leave her. She wanted ..."

exactly thank you bee this a perfect scenario .

well yeah the scenario is bad for it to happen but a great example for people to understand.

BookishBee wrote: "I’m going to explain a scenario. A 16 year old girl gets raped. Gets pregnant. She gets bullied. Kicked out of school. Fired from her job. Her family disowns her. Her friends leave her. She wanted ..."

That reminds me of that case in US where a teen was raped, had the child and the rapist aka the father went to court for custody and actually won. This world is a cruel, cruel place for women :/

wow

Aliyah wrote: "BookishBee wrote: "I’m going to explain a scenario. A 16 year old girl gets raped. Gets pregnant. She gets bullied. Kicked out of school. Fired from her job. Her family disowns her. Her friends lea..."

That is so messed up.

exactly

I'm pro choice.

I don't know if I would have an abortion or not. I'm only 14, so I feel like I wouldn't be able to make the decision until I got pregnant.

People should be able to choose whether or not they have an abortion. The only person who should choose whether or not someone has an abortion is the person who is carrying the child.


Having a child, and giving it up for adoption will change your life forever. Having a child and loving and taking care of it for your entire life will change your life forever. Having a child and having long term health effects because of it will change your life forever. Having a child while you're unable to fully take care of that child will change your life forever. Having a child will change your life forever. Whether it's for the good or the bad, it's a humongous change. No one can deny that. Having an abortion could affect the mother that had the abortion, but for some people it doesn't.

Many people say "People should be able to have an abortion only if they were raped". That is entirely untrue, and very harmful. Rape is not the only reason that someone could be accidentally pregnant. There are many ways that you could get accidentally pregnant, no matter how many safety precautions that you're taking.

I don't think I fit into either category-
I think abortion should be allowed if-
a) the mother's life is in danger
b) rape
c) some kind of genetic issue

It's not the killing of the fetus that makes me say no to abortion- I advocate VHEMT, if you must know. Death isn't the issue. It's the process of abortion that sickens me, like what Audrey said.

To be frank, do whatever the hell you want, it doesn't affect me, so I don't really care.

honestly it sickens me that there are so many laws on women's bodies. if i want to get my tubes tied, i have to have at least 2 kids, and my husband has to give permission. even then, the doctors can say no. why do other people get to decide what i can and cant do with my body?
a woman should be able to get an abortion if she decides that what she wants to do. one thing pro birthers forget is that abortion is hard on the girl too. 7 month abortions are only done when a medical issue is found, or it will kill the woman. by then, the gal has already decided she wants the baby, so it super hard on her. and the abortion itself is so incredibly painful, and you have to drive back and forth while in excruciating pain. so abortions are done early.

Baz Pitch wrote: "“if i want to get my tubes tied, i have to have at least 2 kids, and my husband has to give permission”

Wait REALLY??? What the fuck??? But. It’s. I. WHAT???"
yup and they can turn you away anyway, sometimes it feels like im only seen as a breeder

Baz Pitch wrote: "BringerOfBooks wrote: "Baz Pitch wrote: "“if i want to get my tubes tied, i have to have at least 2 kids, and my husband has to give permission”

Wait REALLY??? What the fuck??? But. It’s. I. WHAT?..."
and if a pregnant woman has a miscarriage, she can be tried for murder. its happened before and its so fucked up. a miscarriage is so sad, and now they are terrorizing the woman even further. america doesn't seem to care for its women

BringerOfBooks wrote: "honestly it sickens me that there are so many laws on women's bodies. if i want to get my tubes tied, i have to have at least 2 kids, and my husband has to give permission. even then, the doctors c..."

It sickens me that there is a law against murder.........what if we call it by another name so it's legal................ABORTION.

Abortion is MURDER

Charlene wrote: "BringerOfBooks wrote: "honestly it sickens me that there are so many laws on women's bodies. if i want to get my tubes tied, i have to have at least 2 kids, and my husband has to give permission. e..."

How is abortion murder? They are not murdering a child, they are taking a fetus out of a mom's stomach.

Charlene wrote: "BringerOfBooks wrote: "honestly it sickens me that there are so many laws on women's bodies. if i want to get my tubes tied, i have to have at least 2 kids, and my husband has to give permission. e..."

What if you got raped? What would you say then? You probably couldn't imagine it, but when a teen gets raped it turns their whole world upside down - and they might not even survive.

Charlene wrote: "BringerOfBooks wrote: "honestly it sickens me that there are so many laws on women's bodies. if i want to get my tubes tied, i have to have at least 2 kids, and my husband has to give permission. e..."
it isnt murder, but you're free to your opinion :)
if you're so concerned about a fetus, how about you direct those efforts and help the foster care system (which is shit currently) or adoption centers. or, i dont know, help the kids that are cages at the border if your so concerned about a fucking fetus

Baz Pitch wrote: "Charlene wrote: "BringerOfBooks wrote: "honestly it sickens me that there are so many laws on women's bodies. if i want to get my tubes tied, i have to have at least 2 kids, and my husband has to g..."

You don't think It's wrong to kill a child? A growing baby is a growing human.

Charlene wrote: "Baz Pitch wrote: "Charlene wrote: "BringerOfBooks wrote: "honestly it sickens me that there are so many laws on women's bodies. if i want to get my tubes tied, i have to have at least 2 kids, and m..."
i do think its wrong to kill a child, which is why she should be getting already BORN children out of dangerous home situations

Still a human child. Do you think we grow aliens? Puppies? You don't kill the unborn eagles or harp seals do you? Then why kill the babies?

i care more about an already grown woman then a fetus

Charlene wrote: "Still a human child. Do you think we grow aliens? Puppies? You don't kill the unborn eagles or harp seals do you? Then why kill the babies?"

Charlene, of course we don't kill unborn animals. Why would we?? We are not the parents of them, it doesn't affect our personal lives if that eagle lives or dies. And we don't don't kill babies. Abortion is because a mom can't candle a baby, not because she just wants to murder.

and charlene why do you care if a woman gets abortion? you dont have to take care of it, you dont have to provide for it

" I guess I don't want that guy to get that job, I need money to provide for my family. I know...... Murder"

That's basically what you are saying

"i cant give this baby a good life, and my body cant handle having a baby. unfortunately i will have an abortion

Charlene wrote: "" I guess I don't want that guy to get that job, I need money to provide for my family. I know...... Murder"

That's basically what you are saying"

What the hell, that's not at all what we're saying.

the example you use charlene is not even relevant. please find a better one so i can better understand what you are trying to say please

BringerOfBooks wrote: ""i cant give this baby a good life, and my body cant handle having a baby. unfortunately i will have an abortion"

Give them to a friend, talk to a councilor, a parent, their are other options than murder. There are PLENTY of people who want to adopt a child.

Charlene wrote: "BringerOfBooks wrote: ""i cant give this baby a good life, and my body cant handle having a baby. unfortunately i will have an abortion"

Give them to a friend, talk to a councilor, a parent, their..."
giving birth fucks up your body, and honestly i dont want that

Talk to anyone who has a child, it doesn't. Unless you don't take care of yourself. Why do you think some people have 6 kids if it messed up their body?