Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

Welcome to the first nonfiction classic of 2021! In honor of Black History Month in the USA (February) we will be reading Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass written by none other than Frederick Douglass himself. This book is actually shorter than some may think with some editions under 200 pages. Please join us in learning about a noteworthy historical figure.

Official GR description:
Born a slave in 1818 on a plantation in Maryland, Douglass taught himself to read and write. In 1845, seven years after escaping to the North, he published Narrative, the first of three autobiographies. This book calmly but dramatically recounts the horrors and the accomplishments of his early years—the daily, casual brutality of the white masters; his painful efforts to educate himself; his decision to find freedom or die; and his harrowing but successful escape.

An astonishing orator and a skillful writer, Douglass became a newspaper editor, a political activist, and an eloquent spokesperson for the civil rights of African Americans. He lived through the Civil War, the end of slavery, and the beginning of segregation. He was celebrated internationally as the leading black intellectual of his day, and his story still resonates in ours.

I started this one this morning. The audiobook is actually short at only about 4 hours. Listening to the first about half hour I found the narrative to be good. I couldn’t imagine living how he did as a child.

I've listened to it as well. I've already read The Underground Railroad: Authentic Narratives and First-Hand Accounts but these accounts still scare me. It is unbelievable how non-human we humans can behave.

What I found very telling in Douglas' narration was the fact that he mainly described the white people, he told very little about the slaves. One could feel how he was indoctrinated to see the world through the white folks' eyes.

That’s an interesting observation, Gabi. I’ll have to pay attention to which people he talks about.

I found this under an article called "The 50 Most Influential Books of All Time"

These books can share knowledge, inspiration, and discoveries in various fields. They teach, influence, and alter the way we think. Sometimes these books are so important and enlightening that they help the world and its people evolve. The following books have done just that. By educating and informing readers in the areas of politics and government, creating new standards in literature, challenging societal norms, and advancing academic thought in the schools of science and religion, these are top 50 books that changed the world.

#7 on the list: Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave by Frederick Douglass. Written by the famed orator and former slave, Frederick Douglass, this narrative is considered the most famous of pieces written by former slaves and one of the most influential texts during the abolitionist movement in the United States. In the text, Douglass recounts his life as a slave on his way to freedom.

I think that is pretty remarkable. Now I know why Rosemarie recommends it so highly!

I found this under an article called: The 50 Most Influential Books of All Time

These books can share knowledge, inspiration, and discoveries in various fields. They teach, influence, and alter the way we think. Sometimes these books are so important and enlightening that they help the world and its people evolve. The following books have done just that. By educating and informing readers in the areas of politics and government, creating new standards in literature, challenging societal norms, and advancing academic thought in the schools of science and religion, these are top 50 books that changed the world.

#7 on the list: Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave by Frederick Douglass. Written by the famed orator and former slave, Frederick Douglass, this narrative is considered the most famous of pieces written by former slaves and one of the most influential texts during the abolitionist movement in the United States. In the text, Douglass recounts his life as a slave on his way to freedom.

I think that is pretty remarkable. Now I know why Rosemarie recommends it so highly!

I finished this Sunday evening and have to say I liked it. I hoped for a bit more about Douglass’s personal life than just his time as a slave, but I think maybe he wrote the whole thing fairly carefully for being published during his lifetime. Undoubtedly other books have more on his life than is given here.

One section I found shocking was when he moved to the “north”. I had never given much thought to how slaves thought of life in the north. He described his relocation upon freedom as quite a shock for himself, because he expected the social classes to live more or less the same as in the south. Learning how more balanced the social classes were in the north than south even back then felt eerie to me. Because I live in the Deep South and have so far all my life, I can clearly see how the impacts of slavery still today stunt economic growth of all but the upper class in southern states compared to states in the north.

Interesting observations, Samantha. I'll be listening to this probably in February.

I read this and realized part way through this that I must have read this when I was a teen or something, because a few things were very familiar (or else they were "stolen" for fiction or something).

The life he lived as a slave was horrible--just being owned is disgusting--but the treatment he saw in the "Milder" state of Maryland was still terrible. I think reading this along with Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl this past year was a good set as they had somewhat different experiences given their situations and both were intelligent and literate.

I hadn't thought about how they might picture the north, but as soon as I read it it made perfect sense that he would think that--it's hard to picture what we don't know, and we tend to frame it with what we've seen.

Nice thoughts on this.
I have not read it as of yet. On the forever TBR pile (which really is a Mountain!)

I have read Twelve Years a Slave.

I am always shocked about how people are treated. Not just in the States but other Countries as well like Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel in Night

I am not sure I would survive...

I read Twelve Years a Slave during college for a US history class, and was it ever mind-blowing. We learn about slavery in school, but these firsthand accounts like with that book and Douglass’s book are irreplaceable and tell the story like no textbook can.

Lesle wrote: "Nice thoughts on this.
I have not read it as of yet. On the forever TBR pile (which really is a Mountain!)

I have read Twelve Years a Slave.

I am always shocked about how people..."

Yes, and this is a global thing. Think of the Rwandan genocide, the treatment of the Biafrans, what the Chinese revolutionaries did (I heard first hand account that was recorded), the Japanese, what is done to girls and women in particular in some Muslim countries etc.

Karin wrote: "Yes, and this is a global thing..."

I really believe you are right :(

I finished listening to this book and felt outraged about how slaves were treated and about the fact that anyone could think that enslaving other people was okay, or right, or economically needed, even praised.

Kathy, I found very appalling how those who were the most involved with church were the harshest slave owners. The way Christians used the Bible to legitimize slavery is disgusting.

I agree, Samantha.

Samantha wrote: "Kathy, I found very appalling how those who were the most involved with church were the harshest slave owners. The way Christians used the Bible to legitimize slavery is disgusting."

Well, I would like to point out that it was a certain ilk of Christians and that most of the abolitionist started off from a different ilk of Christians. It is not unusual for certain violent people to abuse religions this way, either. Think jihad and certain extreme Muslims who take child wives and rape them, etc, for example, and even the Japanese Buddhists that helped kill all Christians and their non-Christian family.

You make some great points, Karin. People of any religion have a way of interpreting their book to fit their desired actions.

Karin it is a shame how that religion is used to manipulate what some want others to believe to cover the bad in the world.

I had read excerpts of this at some point in my schooling but I am glad that I read it in its entirety this month. This is one of those works that will stick with me.

Beyond the horrors that Douglass reports, I am amazed at the education he secured for himself through his own self-will and determination. It sparked some conversations in our family about the value and importance of education with my young daughter who is just learning to read, but has difficulty with it. She loves stories and books, so our local children's librarian recommended The Oldest Student: How Mary Walker Learned to Read, which also documents the lack of educational opportunities for most former slaves.

I read Douglass' autobiography on the heels of The Curious Case of Benjamin Button which is also set primarily in Maryland. It was interesting to see a portrait of nineteenth-century Maryland society emerge through the varying works: fiction/non-fiction, white/black, and slavery/privilege.

I am glad that I found this group.

I read this book a couple of years ago. I was very impressed and also rated it five stars, and I'm not very generous with those.
I'm glad you found joining our group a good idea! We're glad you are finding oir reading list worthwhile.

Lesle wrote: "Karin it is a shame how that religion is used to manipulate what some want others to believe to cover the bad in the world."

Yes, it really is. But then, there are atheists, etc, who will manipulate other things to the same end. eg the Russian and Chinese revolutions (plus in WW II Russian soldiers were ordered to rape women in other countries, apparently), Hitler and others who have abused the theory of evolution with eugenics, and this lest goes on.

As a lifelong egalitarian by nature, and I can't tell you how blind it made me to some of my dad's prejudices when I was young since he wasn't blatant or rude, etc, and it took me a long time to realize just how terrible some of these thingscould be. I was also very naive and at about age 8 thought we could get rid of all prejudice by having all races intermarry until there was just one. This was before I knew about all of the other types of division.

Karin an interesting thought for one of 8.

Lesle wrote: "Karin an interesting thought for one of 8."

One of my brothers was a ring bearer at an interracial wedding when I was eight (the rest of us kids didn't go, but my youngest brother born in 1972 ended up playing hockey with one of their future sons) between two immigrants (a Swede and an Filipina) plus there were a few interracial marriages on the local reserve, so I must have thought it was quite normal.

Samantha wrote: "Kathy, I found very appalling how those who were the most involved with church were the harshest slave owners. The way Christians used the Bible to legitimize slavery is disgusting."

And nothing has changed. If you want to do a bit of business with someone and they say, I'm a christian or I'm a christian businessman then all the red lights go off. In my experience it has been people who call themselves Christians for the most part, are the most judgemental and self-centred people I have ever met in my life. It was the 'christian' boys who waited outside the synagogue to spit on us and throw stones.

I visited relatives in the south of the USA and saw first hand the KKK burning crosses on the grammar school lawn. And of course they were 'christians'.

Marie commented on how Frederick Douglass worked so hard through sheer determination and self-will to become educated. I think his drive for education is very inspiring and would love to see more youth of today who have more and greater opportunities than he had take full advantage of their education.

What else about his life found in this book has anyone found inspiring?

Jazzy wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Kathy, I found very appalling how those who were the most involved with church were the harshest slave owners. The way Christians used the Bible to legitimize slavery is disgusting..."

Where I live active, Bible believing Christians are a minority--it's a very secular area, and the rudest people I meet tend to be atheists who are very much like Richard Dawkins and very rude and dismissive of anything metaphysical, so I have a very different experience than you do. Of course I meet rude people of all ilks because this is not the most polite part of the US (it shocks most Americans who come here, not including NYC and a few other places).

But most of the ones I know personally who claim it the loudest are visible minorities, with some exceptions, of course. This is probably because most of active, growing local churches I am familiar with are multi-cultural or Portuguese speaking started by missionaries from South & Central America, and you don't do well in business around here if you advertise yourself as a Christian business.

Thank you for recommending this book.
There were times when my eyes were bothering me so I listened to some parts on audiobook (wonderful narration by Sam Kusi).

I remember reading this way back in high school but enjoyed reading it again.
Well, I can't say I enjoyed reading about the inhumane treatment that was inflicted on him or what he saw done to others. It's hard to comprehend how we as human beings can be so cruel to each other.
What I did find inspirational was his determination to educate himself and others and become master of his own life. And by having to do so in secret illustrates just how powerful education is. Throughout history there are examples of how knowledge or the restriction of knowledge has been used to keep control over others.

That he became a famous orator, I can only imagine at that time, how difficult it might have been to believe that this was written by a former slave since I think many slaveholders wanted to believe that slaves lacked intelligence.

I also found it interesting to read the appendix on the explanation of his respect and what he had against religion. The difference between the Christianity of the land or 'slaveholding religion' and the Christianity of Christ. Powerful words.

Great thoughts on the book. Thanks for sharing, Mikiko! The way access to knowledge and education is taken from some people is quite alarming, and if I recall right, Douglass thought it made no sense for slaves to be expected to believe in what the Bible said but not be allowed to learn how to read it. It wasn’t until the 1500s that the general populace anywhere could actually read the Christian Bible, because before that it was printed only in Latin. By Douglass’s time, though, as long as one could read in the native tongue, then one could read the Bible. That just wasn’t a factor for most slaves, because in much of the US teaching a slave to read was illegal. Why? Slave holders couldn’t have their slaves learning how wrong the whole institution was and how much better life could be. That’s just the surface of why not teach a slave to read. Terrible. Everyone deserves an education and freedom.

Great insight and thoughts Mikiko! Thanks :)

I re-read this as well, as powerful now as it ever was.

I just finished this book. While devastating to read about his journey; in the end it is an inspirational read.

The opinion was…whispered that my master was my father; but of the correctness of this opinion I know nothing.… My mother and I were separated when I was but an infant.… It is a common custom, in the part of Maryland from which I ran away, to part children from their mothers at a very early age.… I do not recollect of ever seeing my mother by the light of day. She was with me in the night. She would lie down with me, and get me to sleep, but long before I waked she was gone.

I cannot even imagine me at this age going through what he survived through let alone his later years. Just...

Thanks,Leslie, for sending the Dr. Zhivago link in GoodReads

It is part of our group NTLTRC. I hope you enjoy. Nothing is mandatory so have fun!

And your more than welcome!

Lesle wrote: "I found this under an article called: The 50 Most Influential Books of All Time

These books can share knowledge, inspiration, and discoveries in various fields. They teach, influence, and alter th..."

Found the article and here's the link Leslie referred:
https://oedb.org/ilibrarian/50_books_...

I read two different translations. Max Hayward and my favourite - Pevear and Volokhonsky.

Which translations did everyone else read?