Middle Grade Madness! discussion

Here we are, back for more! The adventure continues in book 2: Exile!

Rules on spoilers:
*All spoiler for book 2 DO need to be hidden in spoiler tags.*
All spoilers for book 1 DO NOT need to be hidden.
It's a given that if you're on this discussion page then you've read book 1, so all spoilers for book 1 don't need to be hidden. If you haven't read book 1 and you're here, read comments at your own discretion!

What are you looking forward to seeing in this book? What book 1 questions are you hoping are answered or situations addressed?

I'm hopefully joining in this month for Exile, as I had already read book one previous to this readathon and enjoyed it a lot.
I'm looking forward to more of the school setting and seeing more of the elven world 🧝🏼‍♀️✨

@Sandra that is such a cute elf emoji! I didn’t even know that existed😂👏🏻 glad you’re joining in😊 if I enjoy book 1 enough I’m planning to join in with this one too!

Whoop whoop🎉 the book reading for book 2 commences tomorrow! Does everyone have their books at the ready?

Y E S ! ! ! I just want to find out more about the Black Swan and get some friendship development between Sophie and Keefe already! I'm totally NOT excited AT ALL.

@Spencer I don’t know why it shocked me to find out that Keefe is a year younger than Fitz which makes him only a year older than Sophie. That’s what I think of every time I think of Sophie and Keefe because a romance seems so much more plausible between them now that there’s just a year between them. And now Keefe knows all about her abilities it should be even more interesting.

I’m looking forward to seeing Sophie being painstakingly taught the art of inflicting pain by Bronte who is a pain😂 also I want Sophie to meet Wylie in this book. I wanted it for the last one but it never happened so it better happen in this one.

Wow I want to read it so much I’m kinda sad I have to read my 2 buddy reads first. But on the other hand the BRs are for great books so I’m also excited. So many good books in Feb!!

Im like one book ahead audiobook wise, so I just finished book 2 two weeks ago, so I probably wont be rereading it this month lol. But, I will be keeping up with the discussions.

Omg how was it?? Better than the first I hope. Or just as good at least!

It was fairly good. I would say it is better than the first book, but it is not the best in the series. My favorite in the series is Neverseen

I’m really worried for how the books get progressively bigger until it reaches like 800+ pages. I do not have the commitment for that. I profanity should’ve considered that before I was like “hey guys let’s read this series!”
We shall have to face that bridge when we get to it. To be honest the first book was 500 pages and it didn’t really feel like it so maybe I won’t even notice.

Also I just had the most passive aggressive conversation with a die hard KotLC fan where they kept ignoring my opinion on the first book, insisting the entire series is the best mg books ever. I was even nice saying it’s just my opinion that it’s not because I read mg a lot so there’s so much to compare it to but nope she stated her opinion as fact😂 I forget that the ultra fans of this series and really any series are scary but it’s kinda sad to remember you have to be careful what you say about the books to them or really even anywhere. Am I the only one who thinks it’s important to be objective about good and bad parts of a book and not just ignoring the bad? I’d love to hear you guys’ thoughts on this! And just know that this group is a safe space to like and dislike whatever books and you can say your opinion here

Yeah, with any series there always are the die hard fans. I really enjoy the series, but I do know that not every book is everyone's cup of tea. And I do think that it's important to be objective. Because I started reading the book in elementry school, I didn't start reading it to analyze it, if you know what I mean. But I do understand that it is important to see the wrongs and the rights with a book.

@Virginia oh yeah I know what you mean and that’s a great point! I wonder whether I’d have liked the first book even more if I was actually like 12 when I’d read it🤔 we will never know!
I think it’s like a universal problem with die hard fans that they can be kind of off putting for new people trying to approach the book or show or songs or whatever it is, right? Aah the perils of reading something popular😂

Yeah die hard fans are...interesting. I do think some aspects of writing can be judged objectively, but as a general rule opinions are subjective and people are entitled to their own take on which books are better than others. I can even nitpick some terrible things in my favorite books because not everyone is gonna like it. I think you handled that situation well, @Kadi.

@Kadi, I do think that because I read it at a younger age, it has impacted part of my thinking of it, although, as I've gotten older, I've started to really recognize some of its flaws.

I have just found one of my new favorite quotes of the series "The world doesn't define us. We define our world". This is in book 3, so if you are looking for it in book 2, that is why.

I'm so excited for thisss! Just got the audio so I hope to still start tonight! (currently waiting on DHL)

and yeah die hard fans are ... A Thing. I'm a die hard fan of things, but I will *never* call myself a stan or anything, because I will always be critical, and understanding if someone else doesn't like it.

Sigh. People.

In the meantime, someone mentioned Keefe knowing about her powers and my brain is like ... *crickets* . I'm gonna have to reread my notes, hahaha!

ETA: I remembered again :D

@Spencer thanks😊 yeah I felt like it wasn’t worth it arguing with her because she clearly only saw her own opinion as the one to have. Plus I was talking to her on a friend’s review and I really respect him so I wouldn’t start an argument with someone on his review, especially when I know he doesn’t like conflict😂 If it was on my review I’d probably still ignore her or maybe delete her comments because they really put me off the book for a full day. It’s that rebellious part in me that reacts to someone saying I MUST like something by not liking it at all.

@Virginia that’s a nice quote! Can’t wait to read book 3 and find it the context behind it.

@Carmen *sigh* people😩 is a great response to any and all situations😂 also yeah it was at the end of book 1! There was no way they could avoid telling Keefe because he was the one who knew where the tree was that Sophie projected into Fitz’s mind plus he’d been nosy about it for the entire book, the longer they didn’t tell him the more annoying he’d get😂

Oh dear, judging from the posts on the book 1 discussion, it seems like I already forgot a lot of stuff from the first book lol. I hope Shannon Messenger does a good job at not glossing over references to previous events.

@Spencer how quickly do you forget stuff? To be fair I keep merging events from KotLC and Nevermoor in my mind so I guess it can be hard if you’ve read other stuff too.
If you have any questions about book 1 then ask away and I’ll answer! I think out of all of us, I’m the one who read it most recently seeing as it was just a couple of days ago for me

@Kadi I thought I was pretty good at remembering stuff, but seeing as I've been reading multiple books at a time lately, I've apparently been mixing up some things? I'll ask away when it comes to it for sure.

@Spencer aah that's why I never read multiple books at once! I did it when I was young and I'd always get the plots muddled up so I stopped. The most I can do is read a book and a comic/graphic novel at the same time which I don't get mixed up because they're different mediums. Looking forward to any of your questions! Will be a good reminder for me too.

Hey guys I just remembered! This book is the cover I took to make the title card from! (The title card is at the top of the page in the first comment). I have to say all the covers in this series are very beautiful! And it's even cooler that there's a very consistent depiction of Sophia and Fitz on them all

I know, all of the covers are so pretty!

@Virginia if there's one book that I particularly love of them all I might make the cover my iPad wallpaper. I never know what to set as my iPad wallpaper but I want it to be something I look at and love for more than just how pretty it is. I wonder if KotLC has any official poster art...

They do actually! Shannon Messenger has official art on her society 6 page, and if you search up kotlc official art, you can find some more art pieces that have been by professionals for the series.

@Virginia ooh so I checked it out on Shannon Messenger's website and Laura Hollingsworth did some BEAUTIFUL portraits😍😍 Like wow the colours and everything!!
I am a bit confused though because she drew Fitz with brown/black hair multiple times. Isn't he blond? I mean it's him on the cover of this book and the first with Sophie, isn't it? And she drew the whole Vacker family with dark hair but I swear they're all described as blond in the book. I mean almost all the characters are white and blond and blue eyed, I guess there's a lack of diversity in the elven world😂
Still her art is so pretty. Not really the kind I like to put on my iPad wallpaper but I'm glad I checked it out all the same.

@Kadi, actually that is Keefe. On the cover of book 2. Fitz is on book 3 with Sophie. And the whole Vacker family is described with darker hair, with the Sencens being lighter. And Shannon does have some pretty art, and so does Laura Hollingsworth. I will say, Laura has had some controversy over the past few months with Shannon's fans, because Laura does not support LGBTQ+, a bunch of fans were asking Shannon to stop using her art

And on the first book, that is Dex. A bunch of Dex fans are upset that he is only on the first cover.

@Virginia oooh I thought it was Fitz on the front of book 1! And from afar the boy on book 1 looks the same as the one on book 2😂 So on the cover of book 1 is that the scene in France where they use the lamppost to escape those bad guys? I mean I guess it has to be because that's the only time he and Sophie are around a lamppost kind of structure. But wasn't Dex unconscious by the time they escaped? And Sophie definitely wouldn't be smiling! Lol I guess it wouldn't have made for as much of a good cover if it was that accurate to the scene.

Upon actually looking closely at the covers I've realised the boy on the book 2 cover has longer hair than the boy on book 1 so they're definitely not the same person and I see Fitz with his dark hair on book 3 cover yep. It's my first time seeing the book 3 cover, I've been actively avoiding the book pages of the later books because I don't want even the remotest of spoilers.

Wait. So if that's Keefe on the book 2 cover and I've made that our title card for the readathon... I WAS SUBCONSCIOUSLY TEEM KEEFE FROM THE START!!😂👏🏻

Yikes, is Laura someone who advertises that she doesn't support LGBTQ+? She's a very very talented artist, I've been checking out her instagram and I'm in love with her Aslan painting. Plus her sister is an author which is cool and she wrote The Invisible Boy which I want to read in March (if anyone wants to BR with me, let me know!). She's been like the official artist for the series since the beginning BUT she doesn't do the cover art so I wonder who does that.

I think it really started becoming an issue a few months ago, when on her twitter, she did start advertising it i think. It's kinda of not a big deal now, but right before 8.5 came out, it was a very hot topic in the kotlc area. And on book 1, I think it is in the scene from france. What happens with the covers is that they are based on events from the books, but they aren't always completely accurate from the scenes.

And the cover artist is apparently someone named Jason Chan

@Virginia I guess if the goal of it is to look good then that makes sense. It's always really fun for me to try and figure out what scene the book cover is from for any book cover that isn't just a portrait. Like when I was halfway through Nevermoor and I looked at the cover and realised what scene it was. It's like an added bonus to reading the book!

I wonder why Laura felt the need to advertise it on her twitter. I see she's made her Twitter private now so only approved people can see what she tweets. I imagine if the issue has come up already it'll come up again when book 9 launches if Shannon has her do art in conjunction with it's release. I guess we won't have to wait long to see! Will be at the end of the year.

Yeah, I bet it will. Shannon had to make an instagram post explaining that she doesn't choose the artists, and that her editors/company chooses them. And then that was kind of the end of the matter.

When it comes to things like this I always feel like it's a kind of cop out to say it's the editors/company who choose the artists. Like surely you can say "I don't want them because of so and so", especially when you're a successful author with a 9 book series. Still, a shame.

Also, I have a feeling my favorite character is once again the underdog so I'll have to live with Dex with being overrun so to speak by Fitz and Keefe, haha!

As for remembering stuff, my brain has been a mess, so one book or multiple, audio or physical, I forget so much so fast. Ohwell, I have other people to help me out! Thanks for the explanation of Keefe, I now *do* remember :D

Okay I started and I am a little annoyed that //writing detail (view spoiler)[we are still getting "she released a breath she didn't know she was holding" (hide spoiler)] also //chapter 6 spoiler (view spoiler)[plot hole spotted: elves are immortal but somehow they have traditions for funerals? Weird (hide spoiler)]

@Carmen I have to agree. There's no way she doesn't have any say at all over the artist who is doing her character's portraits by this point. I mean when she says she has no say over who gets casted in her movie adaptation I 100% believe it because she's sold away her rights. But she works with her editor and I get the feeling she has more say in the portrait arts than she does with the covers for her series because I saw in one of her posts she said that whilst she allows the artists to draw their own interpretation, she gave more feedback to Laura and that's why Laura's art is more accurate than the depictions of certain things on the book covers. So she obviously has some kind of voice in the process and if she really wanted to she could've said she wanted to find another artist to do her character's portraits. It's not like there isn't a billion other artists out there that do artwork for books and publishing companies.

To me it seems more like she didn't want to accept some kind of responsibility so she just threw her editor under the bus. I guess that's part of the job of being an editor but still that's not a great move to make.

@Spencer wahoo you've started!🎉 I read just the writing spoiler and honestly I think that's going to be around for quite a few books😂 Apparently book 4 seems to be like the turning point of the series so give it till then to grow up and drop the irritable breath releasing thing! If it's still there after that that's going to be so funny😂

@Spencer, actually, on your second spoiler (view spoiler)[ they are not immortal. However, they do not die from old age. BUT, they can still die. It's just less common because they cant die from old age. (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

@Virginia Ah yes! I remember now. Ugh thank you so much. My memory is terrible

Your welcome! And personally, I also have a bad memory, so I know how you feel

Kadi wrote: "@Carmen I have to agree. There's no way she doesn't have any say at all over the artist who is doing her character's portraits by this point. I mean when she says she has no say over who gets caste..."

Exactly, all of this!

Though I'm always sad when authors sell away all their rights without a clause to be involved, because it leaves it open to be ruined entirely, so let's hope it won't happen this time!

Okay I'm halfway through and I am trembling in fear thinking WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN??

What is happening in this book that could have Spencer trembling in fear?! I reckon I’m going to get round to this at the end of the month, just like I did in January. It’s one of my only unscheduled reads so I seem to keep pushing it back in favour of buddy reads

I have to get this off my chest but //spoilers up to halfway point (view spoiler)[FITZ IS BEING A JERK. Like Sophie can officially NOT have a crush on this dude anymore. It reminds me of how annoyed I was at Grady and Edaline for the adoption drama. UGH (hide spoiler)]

@Spencer, lol this is why (view spoiler)[ a lot of people no longer ship them. A lot of people shipped them in the first book, but after the second, they started to ship more of Sophie and Dex or Sophie and Keefe (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

@Virginia that makes sense. I feel validated LOL

Kostas wrote: "Carmen wrote: "Kadi wrote: "@Carmen I have to agree. There's no way she doesn't have any say at all over the artist who is doing her character's portraits by this point. I mean when she says she ha..."

Oh I know, but it's still a shame! It should be more common!

All these commentss! I'm about a third into the book and it's a bit of a slow start, almost repetitive, but I absolutely adore (view spoiler)[Sylvanie (hide spoiler)] and will do anything in my power to protect them.

Same goes for Dex but that's nothing new, haha!

Hope that soon I'll be feeling the same as you guys! (not opening the spoiler of course, but I am excited for this book to properly get started!)

@Kostas yeah they have to be a pretty big author or the production company has to be prepared to work with them. As a whole it’s always more beneficial for movies and shows to work with the author rather than just buy rights to their content and then exclude them from the process. Which is dumb and a real shame. If you think about it, no one knows their characters and their world better than the author, so it’s strange to keep them out of the loop entirely. I always say that o think they should at least have a consulting role on the production of their adaptation.

I’m honestly intrigued about the idea of Been Affleck directing what should be a children’s movie. Do you guys think they’ll age the characters up more? Because if they’re sticking to the book ages which I think they should, the kids will be like as young as the kids in the second Harry Potter film. Somehow I feel like they’re not going to make 9 movies of this so it’s possible they’ll just age the characters up and mash up the book plots.