The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

Alindarka's Children by Alhierd Bacharevič (Scotland Street Press)

The Goodreads entry for this a bit of a mess as someone has put the English version on Goodreads with a different romanization of the author's name to another version which has also been added

And the original book is linked to one where the title in English is misspelled

Alinarka's Children
and
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...

Can you tidy up?

Not easily no - perhaps we all make sure we put our reviews on the one linked here

Intrigued by the two translators of this one - Jim Dingley from Belarusian to English RP then Petra Reid from there to Scots

https://scotlandstreetpress.com/alind...

The novel is written in two distinct languages. Readers in Belarus will have no difficulty with Russian, although some may find a few Belarusian words and phrases that they do not know. Readers in Russia may (more likely, will) find Belarusian distasteful, regarding it as a spoiled version of Russian. We tried to make a parallel: the Scots will understand Scots and English, the English will need some assistance.

What is English RP? received pronunciations?

Yes. Traditionally known as the Queen's English. Actually an odd way to describe written language, but I guess publisher was trying to indicate standard English English.

Not the “King’s English”? That’s a term I’ve heard.

It seems like the discussions about this book are focused on the translation/translations, not the story.

Well I haven't read the book and don't even know what its about, but I did find the translation stuff rather interesting.

But if the translations are the most interesting aspect that doesn’t say much about the book.

The judges write up suggests language is actually key to the novel to the rendition of two distinct English-language dialects is rather key.

I guess story isn't top of my list for what I look for in a book. Indeed if the story is the most interesting aspect of a book then that doesn't say much about it to me :-)

Story isn’t important to me either, I just meant I was under the impression that much like the length of Ducks, Newburyport was what was most discussed, the differing translations of this book is the most notable part of this book, not its literary value.

I guess I should ask what is going on with translation? Are we supposed to be aware of differing translations?

To be fair it's probably me rather than the book, as I know nothing else about the book, plus translation is fascinating to me.

There is always an issue in translation of how one renders dialect as it never maps over well. Here the use of two languages, one a dialect of sorts of the other, is crucial to the book and the idea, given it's a Scottish press, of rendering that in Scottish seems fascinating.

Worth having a look at the Kindle preview on the Amazon.co.uk site, to get a feel of how the Scots is mixed in.

I think I've tidied up the Goodreads entry now so we should all be reviewing the same book (if different editions)

Or alternatively I've mucked it up and erased all the books!

I am finishing this up now and plan to do a Booktube review this weekend. Paul’s reference to the “double translation” theme was so helpful and I am going to mention that but also talk about the plot, which is a play on Grimm’s Hansel and Gretel. Really complex but interesting and hope you all get to read it soon!

Great to hear Peg - please do post the booktube link here

Yes, Peg, I’m eager to get a sense of the book and the translation.

And I am anxious to hear other’s viewpoints! I Don’t remember if you do Amazon but it was quite cheap on Kindle (US). Almost finished and will report soon.

The translator into Scots admits it’s completely fabricated - one of her inspirations being Rab C Nesbit

Here he is on the difficulties of understanding Scots

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed-Lm5L...

Here is my Booktube review with a special message for Paul. Can’t wait to hear what others think of the book! Yep, I had trouble with the SCOTS but found some things that helped. Read it people!

https://youtu.be/JpYTb47mo98

Gumble's Yard wrote: "The translator into Scots admits it’s completely fabricated - one of her inspirations being Rab C Nesbit

Here he is on the difficulties of understanding Scots

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed-Lm..."

Yes I did love the Rab C Nesbit mention! That actually reminds me a bit of when GY and I on our first trip alone north of the wash went to Durham and asked someone for directions...

peg wrote: "Here is my Booktube review with a special message for Paul. "

Thanks for the shout out - and enjoyed the review.

I also enjoyed the review, Peg. The book sounds fascinating.

Good review, Peg. Now I understand the two translators.

Thanks for the kind comments! Deciding what to read next from the Longlist...maybe Mordew?

Mordew is good. It’s long, but fortunately we have time since the shortlist isn’t until end of March.
Do you like Fantasy?

2/3 of the way through this and currently intending to rank it top of the list so far. I will attempt to review in the next day or two.

Any book which can feature cutting edge politics (yesterday was European Belarus Solidarity day), a dystopian fantasy on the suppression of language, alongside terrible echoes of the Holocaust, with a modern day Gingerbread House, a Scots-speaking Golem, It's a braw bricht moonlit nicht, and the full lyrics of Donald Where's Your Troosers - has to be heading for five stars.

My copy (ordered from the publishers Thursday evening) has just arrived, which is impressive service as well.

Gumble's Yard wrote: " Scots-speaking Golem, It's a braw bricht moonlit nicht, and the full lyrics of Donald Where's Your Troosers"

Feels they've taken the same fun-but-sensible approach to translation here that was trialled but not ultimately followed through in Breast and Eggs (https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...) where there was a sample translation with Osakan dialect turned into Mancunian, but the final version (by different translators) pretty much lost any real difference.

So "I’m thinking of getting me boobs done" turned disappointingly into "I’ve been thinking about getting breast implants, and "she’s off her trolley, my Mum, daft, barmy, bonkers, thick as two short planks" into "she’s being an idiot".

Most of the fun is in the poetry that's scattered through the book

I thought this was brilliant

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Gumble's Yard wrote: "I thought this was brilliant

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

I'm looking forward to it, especially after reading your comments. Thank you!

I've just finished this and whilst I completely understand Gumble's Yard's 5 star rating, I found I struggled with the dominance of the Scots language which started to feel like a gimmick that was getting in the way of the book.

I do understand why the translator's made the decisions they made and I don't have a constructive idea for a different approach, but, for me, at least, the overwhelming memory of the book is of the Scots language and I'm not sure that's what the book is supposed to leave with you.

This one has defeated me. I don't sound out words as I read and don't have the mental bandwidth at the moment to follow the novel, so I am completely lost. One to put aside and come back to in a few years perhaps. A rare DNF for me (I think about the fifth in the last 1000 novels).

Don’t feel bad about the DNF, Paul, one should only read books that bring joy, even if it’s joy for disturbing reasons, e.g. Hurricane Season.

I am having more trouble getting the hang of the language in this book than I did in The Wake, but now that the children have run off into the forest I’m getting more used to it. I think I will like this.

I feel like Peg and I are alone so far so I hope you do.

I was enjoying it, then A Ghost in the Throat arrived yesterday and I couldn’t put it done I’ll finish it tonight then get back to Alindarka’s Children.
Lote arrived today, but I think I’ll make that my easy read after Alindarka’s Children.

I finished the novel and I can say I appreciated the way it was translated but I struggled a lot with it. So 5 stars for the idea and translation and 1 for my reading experience. I can now safely say that I do not understand Scots very well and I will try to stick with English from now on. I had no problems listening to Shuggie Bain but I felt defeated in this one.

I haven’t picked it up in over a week. I will if it’s shortlisted.

This is being published by New Directions later this year (2022). It appears to be the same translation that was published in the UK.

A much more interesting project would have been to take the Dingley translation and use an American dialect as the second layer. Perhaps Mexican Spanish.

…or for a repressed language, Gullah would have been a fascinating choice.

That would have been brilliant, David! It would make it that mush easier for American English speaking readers.