Chicks On Lit discussion

Our February book discussion will be about "The Vanishing Half:
The Vanishing Half
This book has received great buzz. Can't wait to hear what everyone thinks.

How are people getting on with this? I just finished it last night. I found it quick to read, I have just been busy with work so I was slow to get started, but once I did I finished quickly. I won’t say anything yet until I know where others are at.

I am still waiting for my copy.

Hoping to start it this weekend.

Started it last night and am already half way through. You are right, this is a quick read. I hope to finish today. Struggling with the unlikely coincidences.

Spoiler Warning!

Going to try to say this in a way that is not a spoiler, but be careful if you read further. I don't know what some people would consider a spoiler.

So both Reese and Stella are on a culturally contrived continuum. Both have decided to jettison their past for an identity that better suits them. Both have hidden their past. So why does Stella feel like a fraud but Reese feel honest? Is this a case of political correctness? And why is Deseray's very dark husband abusive but Stella's white husband is tender? Is this stereotyping?

Finished. So, what did you think?

I had mixed feelings about this book. Looking forward to the discussion.

I think my library is very slow. I

It is a popular book, so probably a long hold list at your library.

Is anyone ready to discuss the book? I did not put up a nomination thread for March because we had not discussed this one yet.

I didn’t read. I am in a bunch of on-line FB book clubs and didn’t get around to this one. I am sorry, hopefully next month.

No problem. Sometimes the bookgroup reads just pile up. And sometimes the selection just does not come through, either can't get it or can't get into it. I think there are some interesting themes in this book that could be a great discussion if there is interest.

Just taking the tempature of the group. Are people still interested in discussing The Vanishing Half? If you are still waiting on a library copy or slowly making your way through it, wonderful. If you have decided not to read it or not interested in discussing it, that is also just fine. I just want to get a sense if we should still be looking at this title or are we done with it. If we are done with it, do we want to nominate and choose a book for April? I know several of us are in multiple book groups. Is the book discussion here something people would still enjoy or has it become just one group too many? I am good whatever people want. Until our great moderator can re-join us, I am just trying to serve this group in a tiny way. So, what the group wants is what I want to do.

I am just waiting for others. I have gotten half way through the book. I like the char. I like the small town setting. I am waiting to discuss,

I will wait for you to finish. I don't want to give away any spoiler. I am never sure what another reader would consider a spoiler. So glad that you are enjoying it.

I am beginning to wonder if I can do these discussions I am not a fast reader. I love discussing the books but i feel bad that everyone needs to wait for me.

I really like the char and atmosphere of this book. I am a bit annoyed at the abuse story line. It seems every book I have read lately features spousal abuse. It has been a feature in every African American story line I read this year. Yes I know it happens. I worked in women's health for 30 years. But the books i am reading makes it sound like it happens in every relationship.

What do others feel

It does seem like modern fiction goes either one way or the other. Either the family is totally messed up, spousal or child abuse in one form or another, or it is a sweet romance where everyone is idealized. Yes, there are dysfunctional families and family violence. But most families are functioning. And they are functioning with less then perfect people.

I don't want to say too much more until I know how far you are in the book. It is OK to read slowly. If others were chiming in, I would open the discussion to spoilers and warn anyone still reading not to read through all the posts until they finished the book. But right now, you are the only person that is posting about the book. So, enjoy your read and take the time you need.

Thank you for understanding. I do enjoy the discussions

Where are you in the book?

Renee, How is the book for you so far? How far along are you?
Is anyone else reading this?
Should I start a thread for a new book discussion or do people want more time for this book?

Because there has not been any discussion of this book yet, I won't start a nomination thread for another book unless I hear from the members of this group that they want to share another book. I know that some may be still reading this one, so a discussion may still happen here. I know that others could not get this one because it is so popular and the waiting list at their library is long. I will keep looking here to see if anyone wants to discuss this book. I will also watch to see if people want another book discussion. I am not the moderator of this group, so I want to make sure I don't over step any lines. Any member has as much authority to start a book discussion as I do. If someone would like just to do a buddy read with me, I am open to that also.
Wishing all the members here a joyous Easter and a blessed Passover!

Sorry guys, I read this book quite quickly and then it was super busy at my work so I wasn’t here much. Now to be honest I don’t remember the small details about Thai book, but I’d anyone wants to chat about it, I’ll try to join in. I’ll join in ok the next one as well if anyone decides they want to continue!

*this book

Viviennee, what did you think of the book? I liked the writing, the way the story was told, but I struggled with the contrasting of the two stories of "passing". Of course, I won't remember any names now, so please be patient with my attempts to identify the characters. My struggle was that the sister who was passing as white seemed to be portrayed negatively. She was unhappy. Her secret was blamed for the riff with her daughter. The opportunities that being white gave her made her look superficial. Meanwhile, the character who was "passing" as male, the transgender boyfriend, was portrayed as positive. That character did not come off as unhappy, but bravely facing society's prejudices. Where as the sister seemed to be living a lie, the youth seemed to be living a truth. I felt as if the author was condemning the racial"passing" of one character while affirming the gender "passing" of the other character. Since contemporary culture regards both gender and race as existing on a continuum, the two characters felt parallel. How did you read these two characters' stories. Did you see them as contrasted? Is there a difference in "passing" when it comes to race verses gender?

Hi Irene,
Overall I enjoyed the book but it wasn’t as good as I had expected.
I was not expecting the story to spend so much time looking at the twins daughters lives and therefore the story of the transgender guy and their relationship. So to begin with I didn’t really find that part as interesting. I was always wanting to get back to the story of the twins to find out what happened. If I recall correctly it took a long time to get to the story of the second twin and what happened to her. I found that a bit frustrating.
I thought the author was trying to fit in a lot of big issues and therefore for me, the twins issue didn’t go as deep as it could have. I felt the reasons for the second twin passing as white could have had much more time spent developing this. It felt rushed and not fully covered so as you say, came across that she did this for very shallow, materialistic reasons. It also felt like everything negative in her life was due to this secret - as you said - the difficult relationship with her daughter. Again this was written as though she was selfish and not a good person. I did not feel this was the case and it could have been explored further.
As time went on I did get interested in the transgender story, but again as stated already as this is such a big issue I felt it wasn’t covered deeply enough. This could have been a story in its own right. I agree with you completely however, that this story of passing as male was written as a positive thing and he was viewed as a good person who was just living his true identity.
I’m not sure on your question “is there a difference in passing when it comes to race versus gender?” These are not issues that have affected me and I realize my massive privilege of that. obviously it’s very sad anyone would feel scared, nervous or ashamed of their race to the extent they would hide and lie about it. And for that lie to become their life. They both (the twin and transgender guy) cut off their family and history to live their new lives, so why should one be bad and the other good?
One other thing I found odd, was when the twin passing as white went home for one night, she refused to discuss why she left and was never in touch. I come from a family who are the worst at discussing problems, issues or anything remotely emotional. I hardly have contact with them or see them (long story that is not relevant) but when I went back in 2019 even certain things were talked about between us, as it became impossible not to talk about it. In the book I just found that a little unbelievable. A conversation between them all would have been interesting and maybe helped flesh things out some more and understand their feelings better. Even a fairly short one.
The other thing was there were quite a few coincidences that happened, of the two daughters meeting. I don’t know the places in America well enough ( I forget the city it was) but there are 2 million and I barely bump into or meet randomly my friends here!! Yes of course that could happen but was a bit convenient for the story.

Sorry I meant to say there are 2 million people in the city I live in...

I agree, there were big social issues here that could have been developed in much more depth and with greater nuance. I figured that including two different characters "passing" was a deliberate decision by the author to see the two experiences against each other. But I was not sure what the author wanted to say. I also find the race question confusing. Why was her race more honestly black than white? She was obviously of mixed race. Why couldn't she be just as honestly white as black since her physical characteristics were more in line with her white neighbors? I realize that laws in the US forced people to identify as black if they had any black ancestry. So, I understand why she was identified as black early in the story. But those laws no longer exist and by the time of the end of the story, the society was at a point where race was recognized to exist on a continuum. So, why is she not as authentically white as black? Of course, when she marries, the cultural context still held a great deal of racial prejudice, so she does lie to her husband and fears that her child will be born with the physical characteristics of her twin sister. The issues of secrets in a marriage could have been explored at this point. But, is her desire for professional advancement, to escape poverty, to shed the daily indignities of prejudice a bad thing? I do wish she could have been honest with her sister, but she was young and confused. I agree, the family reunion did not feel realistic. If this is a book that was supposed to explore racial stereotypes, I was surprised that the darker twin ends up with a black husband who is abusive while the whiter twin ends up with a white husband that is a much more respectful partner. Talk about stereotypes of the black male! I also agree with you that there were many coincidents in this story. But, I forgave them because I was more fixated on these stories of two characters moving to a new identity while trying to keep it secret from those around them.

I found these book group discussion questions for our book. Would anyone want to discuss any of them?

1. Stella and Desiree Vignes grow up identical and, as children, inseparable. Later, they are not only separated, but lost to each other, completely out of contact. What series of events and experiences leads to this division and why? Was it inevitable, after their growing up so indistinct from each other?

2. When did you notice cracks between the twins begin to form? Do you understand why Stella made the choice she did? What did Stella have to give up, in order to live a different kind of life? Was it necessary to leave Desiree behind? Do you think Stella ultimately regrets her choices? What about Desiree?

3. Consider the various forces that shape the twins into the people they become, and the forces that later shape their respective daughters. In the creation of an individual identity or sense of self, how much influence do you think comes from upbringing, geography, race, gender, class, education? Which of these are mutable and why? Have you ever taken on or discarded aspects of your own identity?

4. Kennedy is born with everything handed to her, Jude with comparatively little. What impact do their relative privileges have on the people they become? How does it affect their relationships with their mothers and their understanding of home? How does it influence the dynamic between them?

5. The town of Mallard is small in size but looms large in the personal histories of its residents. How does the history of this town and its values affect the twins and their parents; how does it affect “outsiders” like Early and later Jude? Do you understand why Desiree decides to return there as an adult? What does the depiction of Mallard say about who belongs to what communities, and how those communities are formed and enforced?

6. Many of the characters are engaged in a kind of performance at some point in the story. Kennedy makes a profession of acting, and ultimately her fans blur the line between performance and reality when they confuse her with her soap opera character. Barry performs on stage in theatrical costumes that he then removes for his daytime life. Reese takes on a new wardrobe and role, but it isn’t a costume. One could say that Stella’s whole marriage and neighborhood life is a kind of performance. What is the author saying about the roles we perform in the world? Do you ever feel you are performing a role rather than being yourself? How does that compare to what some of these characters are doing? Consider the distinction between performance, reinvention, and transformation in respect to the different characters in the book.

7. Desiree’s job as a fingerprint analyst in Washington DC is to use scientific methods to identify people through physical, genetic details. Why do you think the author chose this as a profession for her character? Where else do you see this theme of identity and identification in the book?

8. Compare and contrast the love relationships in the novel –Desiree and Early, Stella and Blake, and Reese and Jude. What are their separate relationships with the truth? How much does telling the truth or obscuring it play a part in the functionality of a relationship? How much does the past matter in each case?

9. What does Stella feel she has to lose in California, if she reveals her true identity to her family and her community? When Loretta, a black woman, moves in across the street, what does she represent for Stella? What do Stella’s interactions with Loretta tell us about Stella’s commitment to her new identity?
(Questions issued by the publisher.)

I have a new computer. My old one died on me. This one is not as fast as my last. It is very frustrating

I was disappointed in the book. I thought It would deal more with the story of the sisters. I felt the book spent too much time on the lives of their children.

I think the sister passing as whites story was very undeveloped. We saw very little of what her life was. The way she was written could have been placed in any book set in that time period. Their was nothing that made her distinct or different from her peers.

I am so tired of the cliche that every black husband is abusive. Every book with an African American couple seems to feature e this.

Did anyone else find it ironic that the actor daughter was named Kennedy?

I also went what at the end when the mother was sick. We had Desiree's partner caring for her mom. When did that relationship happen. It seemed to come out of the blue.

I only gave the book 2 stars. I thought the book was interesting but the chars were not well written. I am very into char driven books

So glad that you have a new computer and can join the discussion. I appreciate your insights.

What did you find ironic about Kennedy's name? It did not hit me, but I was not reading as deeply as I might have.

Desiree's boyfriend came into the picture at somepoint when she had settled back in her mother's house. I can't recall exactly when, but he had been around for some time before the mother got ill. He was in and out of her life because his job had him on the road all the time. But, they were a couple for years.

I agree with you that the characters were not as developed as they might have been. The sister's decision to identify as white was attributed to cliched motivations. We never saw her struggle to walk away, to assume a new identity. But I am not sure we saw much more of that struggle from the trans character. Rather than a character driven novel, this felt like an issue driven story. But, even with that said, I did not think the issue of crossing some social line of identification was very well developed. For all the great reviews of this book, I was expecting something much more.

I found Kennedy's name ironic because I have always associated Kennedy with the equal right movement. So things occurred in the movement during his Presidency. The mom chose white over black. That says to me she did not feel black could be equal. It just seemed to choose that name was ironic.

What I found odd with Desiree's boyfriend caring for the mom was we never saw any loving interactions. For me to find this believable I need some interactions that showed affectation between the two.

I agree this was an issue driven novel. But i think it failed in this. I needed to see the struggle to understand the issue. It was not fleshed out enough for me to gain any new understanding.

I am glad I read it but it was a disapointment

I am not sure why the author felt that the sister was being dishonest about her race by identifying as white. She obviously has the physical features that most people would assign to whiteness. So, it brought up for me the question of what makes us white or black or brown or whatever. Is it the identification of our family of origin? Since the family raised her as black that made her black? Or is it the terrible old policy that if you have a drop of black blood in your background, you are black, as if white is pure and black is impure? I agree, the author did not flesh out the questions that she raises in this novel. The trans character had the physical features that would identify the person as female, but because the character felt male, the author gave the person the right to claim that identity. So why was not that also true for the sister? I think the author raised significant questions of identity. What makes us male or female, black or white? But she did not answer those questions. Instead, I came away with the conclusion that society gets to determine who a person is authentically. If society says that the sister is really black and is hiding her identity, then she is really black, no matter what she thinks or feels or looks like. If society says that the friend is free to pick gender, or that the gender matches internal disposition, then that friend is really male. Identity does not belong to the individual but to the society. The trans character did a better job of convincing society to let her/him pick an identity other than what matched physical characteristics or how she/he was raised. The sister did not make that same convincing argument, so she does not get to be white. I am not sure this is the conclusion the author wanted.

I know a little bit about Gender Dysphoria. It was touched on a lecture I attended. I am required to log so many hours of education to keep my license.

It is now believed to have a genetic component. It is no different than have genes for skin color.

I took from the book that we need to stop labeling people. Let them be who they really are. I just wished she had addressed/shown the struggle. Instead we got the life of a failed actress

I am OK with the trans character choosing the gender identity that fit psychically rather than physically. What confuses me is that the racial character was [portrayed negatively by choosing the racial identity that fit psychically and physically, but familially. She was portrayed as deceitful and causing harm to her daughter even though she was just as much white as black.