SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I am not thinking now about books that are published (or scheduled for publication) – I’m thinking more in terms of the types of stories/genres. So please think more about what kind of thing you’d like to see written.

Perhaps you’d like to see the next George RR Martin or JK Rowling or Terry Pratchett get discovered? Or perhaps you’d like to see more urban fantasy, or more dark fantasy, or more hard SF? Or maybe you’d like to see more novellas rather than novels?

What’s your wish-list?

Patrick Rothfuss gets off YouTube and podcasts and finally publishes book three.

Love this question. A lot of the time I don't really know what I want until I see it lol

Lately I've been loving the trend of re-telling stories that would typically be viewed through the lens of a man in a woman's POV. For example:

The Silence of the Girls
A Thousand Ships
Circe

I would love to see more like this. Fantasy or historical fiction would be fine. I'd really love to see a Viking age story take this perspective. There's been a few attempts in the YA Fantasy genre - but I'd really love something more historical.

I hear the next George RR Martin song of fire and ice one is due out at some point...

LOL, Paul. But within my lifetime?

I’ve always wished the trend towards epically long novels would reverse itself. The sweet spot for me is between 200-350 pages. Or novellas. It does seem like novellas are becoming more prevalent, though.

In terms of content? I’ve been enjoying hope punk type of stories and SF with a political bent couched in personal relationships (think A memory Called Empire). Anything Space Opera with discovery and research taking center stage.

DivaDiane wrote: "The sweet spot for me is between 200-350 pages."

For me, it's in the 350-500 page range, though I don't mind longer or shorter stories if they're worth it. For fantasy, at least.

Do people think novellas are becoming more popular these days? I have read a lot about the "received publishing wisdom" being that these things weren't that popular. I guess the same received wisdom has tended to push the epic length novel (probably mainly due to the success of things like GoT and, of course, Tolkien).

But publishers can be a conservative lot, so I've often wondered how true that view of fantasy literature really is (or whether there's just an element of self fulfilling prophecies behind it - i.e. long epic novels tend to sell because that is mostly what publishers tend to back & because they sell, they then favour them even more).

I'd love more novellas and novelettes. Things you could finish in one sitting or one/two days.

I love fantasy but I feel most of the newer authors write only fantasy so there's a dearth of SF options for me. More female/nonbinary POC writers writing SF would be great. I am glad we have more of those from online magazines but longer works would be very much welcome.

I also want more translated works from Asia, Africa, Latin America.

I don’t know, I think about the popularity of Murderbot, the Wayward Children series and the Penric series, which are all novella length entries, and that makes me believe that novellas/novelettes are making a comeback. Books that length used to be called just “novels”! LOL.

Anyone else remember when all the names for drink sizes at fast food restaurants in the US went up a size? Small didn’t exist anymore and what was “medium” became “small” and on up the line as large doubled in size? This was in the mid-80’s I believe.

I feel like the same thing has happened in the book industry because everyone knows bigger is better. Plus I think not a few popular fantasy authors evolved past the “need” for editors and the size of their novels just ballooned. The “problem” (if you’ll indulge me) becoming two-fold.

I would like to read a completely different ending to GOT that made sense, not that depressing illogical stuff that happened on the TV show.

I want the Stormlight Archive 5 to 10.

And more Murderbot please!

Sarah wrote: "Love this question. A lot of the time I don't really know what I want until I see it lol

Lately I've been loving the trend of re-telling stories that would typically be viewed through the lens of ..."

tbh, there's a case for that in relation to actual history, as it relates to significant real women in history. Especially from medieval and ancient times. We could do with some biographies or historical fiction being written much more from a perspective more sympathetic to their side of the story. Instead much of what we have is from a perspective that takes more or less everything their male detractors had to say about them for granted.

DivaDiane wrote: "I don’t know, I think about the popularity of Murderbot, the Wayward Children series and the Penric series, which are all novella length entries, and that makes me believe that novellas/novelettes ..."

Indeed but still very few options if compared to published novels. This Hugo eligibility list is an example https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/... And I keep hearing the same examples and also the same publishers (e.g. Tor). I made efforts to read more novellas last year but only managed to read around 17 or 18 while my novel count was much higher.

I think novellas are thriving because of digital books. A skinny paperback doesn't seem like a good deal compared to a ft one that's a similar price.

I have enjoyed books by Chinese and Japanese authors and would like to read more. Native American indigenous authors as well.

〰️Beth〰️ wrote: "Patrick Rothfuss gets off YouTube and podcasts and finally publishes book three."

Amen to that!

Standalone novels!

Utopias. We're inundated with all these dystopias offering political critique of authoritan regimes and climate change inaction. People need to start imagining and writing better futures to inspire rather than depress.

More stories from the perspective of earthlings that aren't human. I want an Empire of the Ants for every known species.

My other desires have been mentioned already in getting more stories from the perspective of women and translations of SFF works from the southern hemisphere. Preferably not just the stuff that they think will appeal to western audiences. Eastern European SFF would be nice too.

Ryan wrote: "translations of SFF works from the southern hemisphere. Preferably not just the stuff that they think will appeal to western audiences. Eastern European SFF would be nice too. ."

you can make suggestions to Amazon Crossings here:

https://translation.amazon.com/submis...

they are currently the largest provider of books translated into English in the world as per this article:

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/b...

and this one:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...

"One of Crossing’s strategies for finding books is to solicit suggestions through an online submission portal that is open to publishers and translators, which Page-Fort said has been a success. One example of a book the imprint was unlikely to find otherwise is the novel In Love and War by Roma author Veijo Baltzar, who lives in Finland, which Crossing discovered via a portal submission and will publish in the fall of next year."

I hope they don't have a limit on the number of translation suggestions. Thanks, CBRetriever!

I figure, given the diverse countries that are home to people in this forum, that there could be some good suggestions made by us.

I'd like to see Licia Troisi's books translated into English. There were three of them listed on Amazon (I bought them), but they disappeared and no more have appeared

Nihal of the Land of the Wind

Ryan wrote: "Standalone novels!

agree


Utopias. We're inundated with all these dystopias offering political critique of authoritan regimes and climate change inaction. People need to start imagining and writing bett..."

agree as well. as much as I'd like to read cli-fi, having them so bleak and offering no solution (no matter how weird it is) was not too enjoyable. Solarpunk is getting more buzz but I hope they become more inspirational rather than pessimistic.

I'd love to read more SF with emphasis on science. I have the feeling this is getting less and less nowadays.

I also want stories that challenge commonly accepted truths. So much of what we engage with day to day are ideas that are very much of our present day that aren't supported by historical facts and it bothers me that so much of our fiction does the same.

As someone that wasn't Mark Twain once said "It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so."

Ryan wrote: "Utopias. We're inundated with all these dystopias offering political critique of authoritarian regimes and climate change inaction. People need to start imagining and writing better futures to inspire rather than depress.."

Yes! This!!!!

Gabi wrote: "I'd love to read more SF with emphasis on science. I have the feeling this is getting less and less nowadays."

Yes!

Ryan wrote: "Standalone novels!

Utopias. We're inundated with all these dystopias offering political critique of authoritan regimes and climate change inaction. People need to start imagining and writing bett...
More stories from the perspective of earthlings that aren't human. I want an Empire of the Ants for every known species.


Agree about nonhuman perspectives. A Rustle In The Grass by Robin Hawdon is a good one.

Hello Beautiful People,
Since we have all endured a life of pausing, unknowns and sadness in the recent past, with some people enduring more trying times than others... I think novellas and books that are upbeat, entertaining, enlightening and magical would really be terrific !!! Any book that brings smiles, happiness, positivity and hope would be well received with open arms !!

I suppose you could go one of two ways in a pandemic situation. Many people want something uplifting, escapist and humorous to lift the spirits. Some like something tragic and cathartic. Sophocles wrote Oedipus in the middle of a plague in Athens & it contained a fairly chunky section on a city suffering from a plague. And, of course, being Sophocles, it was really powerful writing.

Paul wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Love this question. A lot of the time I don't really know what I want until I see it lol

Lately I've been loving the trend of re-telling stories that would typically be viewed throug..."

I don't think there are many publishers that are working with novellas these days. Tor was one of the few but they have been closed to submissions from new authors for a while now (partly that's down to covid, but I think I'm right in saying they haven't accepted any new authors for that kind of thing since 2018). So, unfortunately, I think the only way to discover new authors writing novellas these days is likely to be self-published ebooks.

Paul wrote: "I suppose you could go one of two ways in a pandemic situation. Many people want something uplifting, escapist and humorous to lift the spirits. Some like something tragic and cathartic. Sophocles ..."

You think those are the only two literary paths available to readers during a pandemic?

Ryan wrote: "Paul wrote: "I suppose you could go one of two ways in a pandemic situation. Many people want something uplifting, escapist and humorous to lift the spirits. Some like something tragic and catharti..."

Obviously, people can go for something in between (or both) but I did wonder if people tended to have a stronger preference for one or other given the nature of our times.

Okay... I think I read more than a few books in the last year that can't be described as you've done. As well as a story or two that can be described as all of the above. If say escaping pandemic talk by reading about police brutality by reading Angie Thomas' The Hate U Give, for example.

All books are vehicles to escape some aspect of life whilst delving into another. It all depends on what reality you need a break from.

CBRetriever wrote: "Ryan wrote: "translations of SFF works from the southern hemisphere. Preferably not just the stuff that they think will appeal to western audiences. Eastern European SFF would be nice too. ."

you can make suggestions to Amazon Crossings here:

https://translation.amazon.com/submis..."

Amazon Publishing stopped taking submissions via that page last year :(

So I get that this was started last year, but I took it as 'what would I like to read more of in the future' vs just in the next ~12 months. In that spirit...

What I don't want more of:

Dystopia
Climate Change fiction
Super long fiction that's long because series sell and I want to write for years and years and... (you get the idea).
Superhero fiction (though I enjoyed Hench a lot because it wasn't about the superheroes

Some of the above is because of the style or topic, but mostly it's that these kind of books feel like authors and publishers hopping on a bandwagon of what sells and, with rare exceptions, the quality reflects that, being decidedly middle of the pack.

What I do want more of:

Positive futures. Not utopias, but futures that aren't all bleak, blasted landscapes, etc. Let's say we have a close call with climate change but we make changes now and, while it affects the world, we mostly are OK. What does the world look like 300 years from now? 600?

Character focused SF. Becky Chambers is my canonical example here. Fewer stock archetypes, more rounded, complex people.

Novellas. There ARE more being published though they're still and always will be a minority of titles. Go wander through https://publishing.tor.com. Some titles to look at The Border Keeper, Agents of Dreamland, A Dead Djinn in Cairo, The Gurkha and the Lord of Tuesday, Finna. I'm not sure where you're all looking but there's a lot out there. Most of these are parts of series (released or intended). I've read them all and recommend all of them.

Standalones! 250 to even ~500 pages is OK. It's not so much the length it's a) the discipline to tell a complete story in one book and, well, getting a complete story in one book. It's fine if there's a series of books set in the same universe, ala Banks' Culture novels but I like picking up a book and getting a full story. Also, I don't think most stories need 1000+ pages to be told.

Rick wrote: "What I don't want more of:

Dystopia
Climate Change fiction
Super long fiction that's long because series sell and I want to write for years and years and... (you get the idea).
Superhero fiction..."


I agree about not having any of the ones you don't want to see more of even though I still read some dystopia--but I want to pick and choose that personally.

Included in the list of what you'd like to see, I also would llike to see

Standalones

Positive futures (and agreed, not utopias)

Character focused, although Becky Chambers was more of a 3 star like for me for one book and 2 for the next.

One thing I'd like to add:

I would like to read some fun scifi that isn't politically based, etc. In addition to Covid I, like many of us, have some very stressful things going on that I won't put in a long list here. Redshirts is an example (already read it, a fun 3 stars for me).

I'll agree on the fun bit. Humor is hard to do but fun doesn't need to mean laugh out loud.

Rick wrote: "I'll agree on the fun bit. Humor is hard to do but fun doesn't need to mean laugh out loud."

I agree! Doesn't have to be a comedy to be fun.

Paul wrote: "Perhaps you’d like to see the next George RR Martin or JK Rowling or Terry Pratchett get discovered? Or perhaps you’d like to see more urban fantasy, or more dark fantasy, or more hard SF? Or maybe you’d like to see more novellas rather than novels?

What’s your wish-list?"

I got into Fantasy through LotR and Terry Brooks so Adventure Fantasy, triologies, interesting creatures, more dragons (you can never have too many dragons) are top of my list and I'm happy with Dark Fantasy. SciFi I like on the lighter side, things like time travel or space opera.

I'm good with novellas too. Less time investment with so many good books waiting to be read! Having said that, I read the existing Ice and Fire books back to back so I don't mind longer stories either.

I used to be more in SciFi. But the last few years I have been leaning more toward Urban Fantasy (Love the Dresden Files).

I am currently reading a lot of "slipstream" books. Started by accident when I hit a couple in a row, and just decided to go with it. Started with Anna Kavan. Jumping right into the middle of it now with "Gravity's Rainbow."

I would also love to see a lot less dystopia! It's overdone, now, isn't it? I think we get the message/idea 😏. I think my favourite of these are still maybe the ones I read growing up - books by Victor Kelleher and Gillian Rubenstein. (Was it Rubenstein?? 🤔)

Less vampire- and faerie-related - in the sense of young adult-flavoured faerie where it's all about dark kingdoms and curses and male faerie princes yearning for human young women, etc., etc. I love a really good faerie tale based on old Celtic and other myths, like the kind that Juliet Marillier writes, for example.

I'd like to see more fantasy that doesn't take a political stance on current zeitgeists. Obviously there's a market for this, but when it influences everything, instead of being a sub-genre, it's frustrating. I want to escape that when I read fantasy. To just enjoy something without being pressured and preached to.

And, more adult fantasy that isn't classed as adult because it's more risqué - more violent or intimate or whatever - but because it's written for and about somewhat more mature characters. There's lots of young adult fantasy, and some of it's really good, but I'd like to see a lot more non-young-adult quality offerings.

I think I'm over reimagined fairy tales. I've never minded the odd one, but there seems to be an oversupply currently.

I'm definitely over love triangles.

I want more standalones. Especially in fantasy, it sometimes feels like authors stretch their stories too much and end their books with cliffhangers because they "have to" churn out the mandatory and/or expected trilogy or long series. I want to see well thought out and structured standalones that tell the story the author wants to tell, and also end it.

Tamara wrote: "Less vampire- and faerie-related - in the sense of young adult-flavoured faerie where it's all about dark kingdoms and curses and male faerie princes yearning for human young women, etc., etc. I love a really good faerie tale based on old Celtic and other myths, like the kind that Juliet Marillier writes, for example."

I so agree with this, though I'm in a YA group as well and Juliet Marillier was a dnf for me.

Also agree fairytale retellings are saturated and I never did get into love triangles.

I like a lot of older Fantasy stories that didn't focus on Romance!
Roger Zelazny, Anne McCaffrey, Robert Aspirin, Michael Moorcock, etc.

I’m not interested in “sentient AI”, but I’ve seen some amazing art generated using some interesting neural network techniques (I’ve only dug in superficially, so I don’t really get the tech) and, unless there’s a big step needed to “get to the next level,” it sure looks like computers will outstrip our intellect pretty soon. (I’ve played with one system on the website wombo.art - I got good stuff out of it but not as amazing as others have gotten from it and similar techniques.)

Dystopian or not, I’d like to see some fiction speculate on how society will change in response.

Tamara wrote: "I would also love to see a lot less dystopia! It's overdone, now, isn't it? I think we get the message/idea 😏. I think my favourite of these are still maybe the ones I read growing up - books by Vi..."

Yes, if we're going to read fantasies I agree with all you said. I'm not big on racy or really violent, but mature characters are a plus and I read novels for enjoyment and relaxation so want to avoid the zeitgeists as well.

I don't read much fantasy anymore but I might be open to reading something about dragons that doesn't have fairies, trolls, elves et al (I like Tolkein, but want a break from that.)

You can see why I rarely read fantasy :)

DivaDiane wrote: "I don’t know, I think about the popularity of Murderbot, the Wayward Children series and the Penric series, which are all novella length entries, and that makes me believe that novellas/novelettes ..."

I agree with you! I love a chunky book, but most of the SFF novels that come in the 350-500 range could really stand to be edited down a bit and not lose anything in the telling. I've been trying to pick up more Novellas because I can read them in an evening. There's some great novellas (I can't speak for the novelettes, but I bet that it's the same) that have been published in recent years and I hope the trend continues!

There are, alas, very few markets for novellas.

Mary wrote: "There are, alas, very few markets for novellas."

However, I believe that Amazon. Google Books, Barnes & Noble and Kobo have all opened up a market for them. Even short stories are selling in digital format.

for Paper versions, yes, the markets are fairly closed to them, but digital is thriving

My library has been picking up novellas, particularly by the big SF publishing houses. I can check out 99% of the recent Hugo nominated novellas, which is great!