The Sword and Laser discussion

I was depressed by the notion that the absence of an event as dramatic as (view spoiler)[getting your back grated off and having your boyfriend die (hide spoiler)] wouldn't change your life trajectory even enough that you'd end up working for a different employer. [Disclaimer: Yes, I am aware that this is a work of fiction 😉] Maybe this is because I have an ongoing fantasy of going back and rewriting decisions in my life - some that I regret, others just because I wonder what could have been. This observation probably says way more about me than Clines.

But also - and yes, in complete contradiction to being depressed about not traveling a divergent path - I actually really liked the sentiment in this section about Jamie:
(view spoiler)[ “The Jamie I met ... she could be a little bitter. I think she thought that motorcycle crash was the defining moment in her life, that it was why she ended up working with computers rather than doing, I don’t know, something else. I think she regretted it sometimes. Like she’d been forced down a path instead of having a choice."
But you didn’t have the crash. And you still went into computers. You still decided using your mind was the best way to go in life. Because that’s who you are.” (hide spoiler)]

As a gal who was the nerd, not the cheerleader, I appreciated the validation of that choice of path. 😄

So... you’re both happy and sad about the same thing?

That kinda proves Clines’ point, doesn’t it?

Maybe?
What do you see as Clines' point?

If it is that a turning point produces no changes in outcome or perception of outcome, no. I don't wish to believe that. Could completely be wishful thinking on my part, and I won't know bc I can't A/B test a turning point in my own life. It may be that who I am, who anybody is, is more fixed than I would like to accept.

If it is that we may end up with the same outcome, but a different mental and emotional outlook on why we ended up there or what it means to us, absolutely. I think happiness is often largely in our point of view.

Both, because they’re intertwined. You end up in the same place regardless of what external forces happen to you because you’re the same basic person. It’s the classic “nature v. nurture” debate, and Clines comes down decidedly on the nature side of the argument.

Which I tend to agree with. As the saying goes, “Nature deals the cards but nurture plays the hand.” Two different people can experience identical circumstances but end up in different places because of who they are at their core.

All these variations of the same people in different universes have different experiences yet end up in the same place, because that’s who they are. Things like one of the characters changing her hair color could be read as a similar thing: the outside changes to our bodies are superficial and don’t really affect anything.

Which I’m pretty sure Clines didn’t intend, because it’s such a pulpy adventure story, but I’d use that as evidence for a college course. 😁

For similar stories which align more closely with your view, try these:

The Midnight Library by Matt Haig
Recursion by Blake Crouch
The Space Between Worlds by Micaiah Johnson
Chosen Ones by Veronica Roth

They all deal with alternate selves making different choices or living in different circumstances resulting in different outcomes. Sometimes mildly, sometimes wildly. But the first two in particular. (Recursion came out in 2019, while the rest are from 2020. Something in the air.)

Trike wrote: "It’s the classic “nature v. nurture” debate"

and also the classic "Fate v Free Will" debate.

Are we able to make choices or are we Fated to make a decision and only have the illusion of free will?

Has our future been determined at the Big Bang and has every thing that followed been just elements acting on a predictable path via the Laws of Physics from the Quantum level up or does Chaos Theory make everything that happens totally unpredictable and Chaotic.

Do we live in a "Sliding Doors" universe where one small decision can have a massive effect whichever way we choose or do we live in a "Final Destination" universe where everything is predetermined and our future will follow the path is must.

I choose to believe in Free Will, even if it is just the illusion of Free Will.

You’re blowing my mind, man. I’m seeing trails.

Thanks for the book list, Trike. I've heard about the Midnight Library multiple times this month. Something in the air. 😉

In Clines' reality, I think you can make an argument (for the college course) that Clines is not insisting that people are fundamentally static.

(view spoiler)["It's our local cluster, if you will. A bunch of realities that only recently split apart , in the big scheme of things. We’ve got a lot of common history.

Given an infinite amount of dimensions, there must necessarily exist some dimensions where Jaime-X took the same basic trajectory as Jamie-A, just with more original back skin.

“When the Door opens,” said Mike, “it reaches into a ‘nearby’ universe. By nature of being close to us, so to speak, they’re less divergent."

"We know teams existed there that built Albuquerque Doors. Which means they were near-parallel until the past year or two.”

So given the physics of the Door, alternates must come from a dimension that is closely aligned with the dimension of the story. If Jaime-X hadn't taken a very similar trajectory to Jaime-A (although, actually, she's more like Jaime-A'), she would have been too dimensionally far away to come through. (hide spoiler)]

But story physics aside, for me, I think it comes down to what Tassie Dave said:
"I choose to believe in Free Will, even if it is just the illusion of Free Will."

If I believe I have Free Will and act as if I have Free Will, how do I know I don't have it? If we can't prove it either way, I'm gonna go with what makes me happier.

In Clines' (view spoiler)[multiverse, I think that just means I'm constantly splitting off an infinity of new Lisas who are free to split off their own infinities. (hide spoiler)] ♾

It’s Lisas all the way down.