Jane Austen discussion

Discuss this section of the story, which ends as Henry Crawford makes his intentions known.

********SPOILER ALERT*********************

I'd like to get the discussion going again. I find Henry Crawford to be one of the most interesting characters in the book. Do any of you believe that his intentions to Fanny are in earnest? Why or why not?

Henry Crawford is a huge topic! One reason I wanted to reread and discuss this book.

It is not really an answer to your question, Jeannette, but is Henry Crawford really honest to himself? I know that theme was touched upon in the other thread. What are his qualities?

When I read MP I was definitely attracted to Henry as a character more than to anybody else. I loved the way he played with both, Julia and María (they had it coming!) and then humiliated them even more in prefering Fanny. I imagine that when he thought in Fanny to get married (note that he didn't propose Maria nor Julia, so he wasn't interested in a "convenient" marriage), he really wanted to settle down, but Fanny complicated everything. We Jane Austen fans are accostumed to Austen's heroes to be lovely, intelligent, tender and most of all, faithful. Seriously, men are men, and few of them are that perfect. To me, Henry was a "normal" man like those that say: "I love my wife, but I am also weak before a beautiful woman." I am also sure that he did love Fanny, because she was the only one that didn't make it easy for him, and men usually fall for difficult (or forbidden) women. True that Henry had no extraordinary qualities (that's why he is not the protagonic), yet he was not a bad person either. If I compare him with Wickham, who was ambitious and lacked of scruples, Henry was almost a desirable party for any woman of that epoch, including our not-very-smart dear Fanny and excluding dearest Elizabeth Bennet.

Tell me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that Henry had had a lot of affaires, but never gave his word to anyone, meaning, he was never officially engaged. He offered his name to Fanny, though, so that tell me he had a genuine interest for her.

Henry Crawford is a character that we are unsure of. He is a main character in the book, but not one that could have held up as hero. He may not be the ultimate bad guy, but he does begin by pitting Julia and Maria against each other, and clearly coming between Maria and Rushmore.

In Vol. Two, Henry then declares to Mary that "my plan is to make Fanny in love with me." He cannot be satisfied "without making a small hole in Fanny's heart." So from there, come the developments of real interest in the novel.

Why can't Fanny warm up to him? Is she too pious to accept him knowing the games he has played with her cousins? Did Fanny actually create the complication for Henry?

It is interesting that you compared Crawford to Wickham? I think that morally I find them in the group, and I agree that Wickham was never able to rise above his errors. I would say Willoughby from Sense and Sensibility is also a comparison. However, in the end, I felt Willoughby was able to prove true emotion, but did Crawford?

He does become complicated to sort out though, because we see his actions, but never a confession of any kind like Willoughby's to Elinor.

Sarah wrote: "Henry Crawford is a huge topic! One reason I wanted to reread and discuss this book.

It is not really an answer to your question, Jeannette, but is Henry Crawford really honest to himself? I kno..."

It is easy to place Henry Crawford with Willoughby and Wickham, but I think he differs signaificantly. Both W & W are rather callous towards women and engage in sexual affairs with "innocent" young women (Lydia, Beth) with no regard to the consequences. Henry Crawford has not taken this step. His sister is happy to see him marry young, rather than take after his adulterous uncle. She believes Fanny can "save" him.

Henry Crawford has been brought up spoiled and privileged. He knows he is charming and as well as having the financial means to attract any and all young ladies. To him, flirtation and "love making" is a game; one he can win and walk away from with little harm to himself or his reputation. With Fanny, he sees yet another conquest and thinks that she will easily succumb to his charms. He thinks her shy, but does not realize that she objects to his basic character.

Does he really love her? He does see qualities in her that Edmund seems oblivious to. Is he sincere in wanting to marry her? Yes, I think for a while he believes that marrying Fanny will make him happy. But, Henry does not have any real "staying power" when it comes to attachments. The old games start up once he is away. He may regret his actions, but I don't think it will bother him for very long.

Sarah wrote: "That's what made Joan Aiken's sequel, Mansfield revisited, so interesting. Crawford is not a cad. He actually refuses Maria. How about them apples?"

Everybody gets a second chance to redeem themselves, or fall further, in these sequels! That's part of their appeal. :)

Sarah, I hate to point out, but we are about to discuss Mansfield Revisited and I didn't want to drop a spoiler on the discussion -- I deleted your post for that reason. Please join us for the discussion of that book though. I hope to post the folder for that by in the morning.

Sarah wrote: "Why can't Fanny warm up to [Henry:]? Is she too pious to accept him knowing the games he has played with her cousins? Did Fanny actually create the complication for Henry?
"

(I hope it's all right to post to a discussion that's quiescent.)

I think it's partly because of Fanny's strong core moral
beliefs, but also because there isn't room in her heart for another man. It's already occupied by Edmund, even before she realises that. In having such an influence in forming her opinions and values, Edmund has unwittingly created Fanny's ideal of her perfect match: himself.

Without Edmund, Fanny might well have accepted Henry. But without Edmund, Fanny would not have been Fanny.

I will admit I have never been happy with how Mansfield Park ends. I'm not convinced that Edmund ever truly values Fanny; I would have preferred her to accept Henry, actually.

Edmund is such a bore. Actually, Mansfield Park is my least favorite of Austen's book. It is SO wordy and long and really quite boring along with Edmund. That being said I have read it more than once and watched all of the different movie adaptations.

I have to say that I agree that I wish that Fanny accepted Henry, only because I knew that she cared about Edmund--but I wondered if it was because he was so nice to her when she was young or was it real love?

Shaun wrote: "I have to say that I agree that I wish that Fanny accepted Henry, only because I knew that she cared about Edmund--but I wondered if it was because he was so nice to her when she was young or was i..."

I think Fanny was partially motivated by hero worship. Edmund was her ideal man, everything good and honorable. Fanny thought Henry was dishonest and not very honorable, especially in his behavior during the play.

I was going to say childhood crush, but hero worship is exactly right -- that's what it is.

Yes! I agree! Its very curious, because I wonder how their marriage would be like after it is all said and done? Would she feel like an equal partner or would she always want Edmund's approval first? From my limited Austen experience (P&P, S&S, Emma, and Mansfield Park), I felt that the marriages of the principal characters were equal. It's a partnership with love as opposed to a husband and wife sterotype.

Shaun wrote: "Yes! I agree! Its very curious, because I wonder how their marriage would be like after it is all said and done? Would she feel like an equal partner or would she always want Edmund's approval f..."

Well, she certainly loves him and he loves her, but I think Fanny will always defer to Edmund's judgment. But, it's the way she is, so I think she will be happy. I hope she gets a bit more "interesting" or he might not stay so happy.

Another reason I think Fanny should have picked Henry. He would have deferred to her.
Fanny really should have asked my advice! :)

Ha ha, this sounds a little like fantasy football! If only we could be the "coaches" of some of the Austen characters! But it is interesting to think about though. I'll probably do a re-read at some point to re-think the characters. I'm not doubting that they love each other, but I was thinking of what kind of love? Instead of clashing, they are more complementary, which is good but is is passionate?

Mayakda wrote: "Another reason I think Fanny should have picked Henry. He would have deferred to her.
Fanny really should have asked my advice! :)"

Henry would have run around on her, the cad! He's an Austen badboy! :)