Black Coffee discussion

This is where we will be discussing March's group read Sula by Toni Morrison.

This rich and moving novel traces the lives of two black heroines from their close-knit childhood in a small Ohio town, through their sharply divergent paths of womanhood, to their ultimate confrontation and reconciliation.

Nel Wright has chosen to stay in the place where she was born, to marry, raise a family, and become a pillar of the black community. Sula Peace has rejected the life Nel has embraced, escaping to college, and submerging herself in city life. When she returns to her roots, it is as a rebel and a wanton seductress. Eventually, both women must face the consequences of their choices. Together, they create an unforgettable portrait of what it means and costs to be a black woman in America.

How many of you will be joining the discussion?



Reading Schedule: (Tentative Dates)

1919-1921 *** March 14th
1922-1937 *** March 21st
1939-1965 *** March 28th

I’m in

I’m in

i'm back and i'm in!

Welcome back Kisha!!

I’m in.

This will be my first time joining. Looking forward to it!

I’m in. I hope! With my job, sometimes I don’t have the time to read :-(

Hi! How does the discussion happen? Through this chat?

Because I am in!

Hi Andrea! Yes, we divide the book into sections and discuss on this thread.

I will be joining this discussion, also.

I will join!

Reading Schedule: (Tentative Dates)

1919-1921 *** March 14th
1922-1937 *** March 21st
1939-1965 *** March 28th

Started last night.

I’m gonna start it as soon as I finish THE STREET by Ann Petry. What a good yarn.

I have this waiting for me at the library and am planning to pick up my holds on Monday.

I started Sula today. I’m listening to the audio narrated by the author.

Glad to be apart of the discussion. Let me find my notes.

I would like to join as well. I just got the book on Audible and started it today.

Discussion Starts Here......
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1. Considering the narrative about Shadrack and “National Suicide Day”, do you think he’s a prophet or just plain crazy? What role do you think he plays in the community?

2. Why didn’t Sula and Nel try to save Chicken Little?

3. Why does Eva leave her children? Why does she return with only one leg?

4. Who are the “Deweys” and what do they represent?

5. What are some possible reasons for Eva's decision to kill Plum? How was the act both one of sacrifice and selfishness? How do her actions address the ambiguous blessings of a mother's strong love for her children?

6. Questions? Comments? How are you enjoying the story so far?

#5. Okay, that was jaw dropping! The only thing that I could think is that Eva saw Plum’s life as completely damaged and beyond repair. Admittedly it was 1920 and there were no such thing as drug rehabilitation or any kind of treatment especially for poor people of colour . So , she apparently decided the only way to end the scourge of his drug addiction was to end his life . Without a doubt, she did love him. Perhaps she knew he would eventually die and she couldn’t bear waiting for it to happen . I hate to put it like this, but it felt like the painful practice of putting fatally injured beloved animals out of their misery. Totally Shocking!

#3. Eva realised she was completely out of options. Boy Boy was absolutely useless. (I was thinking the problem was with the name. A man called Boy Boy was doomed!) . Interesting how when he returned, and we knew he would, Eva was not completely sure of her feelings about him. It seemed as if she was a little afraid that he would weasel his way back into her life. However, green dress took care of that very nicely! I believe Eva said something like hate becoming liquid in her body. At that moment, she was done!

Wow! That whole leg thing!!! Damn, talk about doin’ what you gotta do! I did like how she made the best of that remaining leg by keeping that thing beautifully, and apparently sexily, stockinged and shoed.

#4. The Deweys...hmmmm! Honestly, I don’t have a clue. I wish I could get into Toni Morrison’s head regarding them.

Hello everyone! I’m Tasha. I’m in too, for the next date. I just received the book from its hold, and am starting it now! This is my first GR group participation...excited and nice to meet you all.

I forgot all about Pearl. That is a mystery, or I missed Pearl’s story. I finished this book narrated by the author and found it quite mysterious, typical of Morrison. I believe Shadrack was suffering from PTS. Eva and Sula were both a little bit crazy, IMO. Maybe it ran in the family.

This whole thing with Chicken Little will not leave me. That was a horrific accident!!! The questions are “Why didn’t they get help?” All they seemed to care about was who saw them. Then they attended the funeral and afterwards went on their merry way! Are these little girls so very callous? WHY?

I think because they were little girls they were too afraid to admit they had anything to do with Chicken Little. I think Sula was going for help them chickened out? Maybe? Everything is horrible about that section of the book all the way to the racist person who accidentally found the kid and only worried about the smell.

I think the Deweys were the only happy people in the book. What did they have to be happy about? We’re they mentally challenged?

Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "I think the Deweys were the only happy people in the book. What did they have to be happy about? We’re they mentally challenged?"

I’m starting to think The Deweys are symbolic of something. They seemed to show up out of nowhere and besides being given the same name, even though they are vastly different in appearance, they seem to function as one character. They are not even growing up! I don’t know. Maybe it’s something like things looking different, but being the same.

Joy wrote: "Eva demontrated the love for her kids and the lengths she went to for them. Not just her leg and Plum but her reaction at seeing Hannah on fire. WOW! The description of how she looked when she saw ..."

Joy, I just read that! Oh Myyyyyyy..... I’m done for a little while. My brain needs time to digest that whole scene.

Tm wrote: "Hello everyone! I’m Tasha. I’m in too, for the next date. I just received the book from its hold, and am starting it now! This is my first GR group participation...excited and nice to meet you all."

Hi Tasha. Welcome aboard!

Tm wrote: "Hello everyone! I’m Tasha. I’m in too, for the next date. I just received the book from its hold, and am starting it now! This is my first GR group participation...excited and nice to meet you all."

Welcome!! Feel free to jump in whenever!

Joy wrote: "Where is Eva’s other child Pearl? Did I miss it or is she coming up in Part two?"

I’m not sure if this is a spoiler or not...I’ve finished the book, lol, but ...(view spoiler)[ Eva said Pearl moved away and wrote to her about absolutely nothing. So it was as if Pearl being the middle child really didn’t really have a place in the hearts of any of them. Like she was overlooked. (hide spoiler)]

Lulu wrote: "Joy wrote: "Where is Eva’s other child Pearl? Did I miss it or is she coming up in Part two?"

I’m not sure if this is a spoiler or not...I’ve finished the book, lol, but ...[spoilers removed]"

I must have forgotten that part. I forgot there was a Pearl to be fair, but now I remember her and she was lucky to get away. I think.

Joy wrote: "Trudy wrote: "Joy wrote: "Eva demontrated the love for her kids and the lengths she went to for them. Not just her leg and Plum but her reaction at seeing Hannah on fire. WOW! The description of ho..."

I'm confused about how she treated poor Plum. Was she putting him out of his misery 'cause she didn't know how to save him? She knew how to save him when he was constipated. That was quite a scene also - OMG!

Ok!! There is a part I want to talk about that deals with Eva and Plum that is in the 1923 section. Now when Eva says....(view spoiler)[ “ I’d be laying here at night and he be downstairs in that room, but when I closed my eyes I’d see him…six feet tall smilin’ and crawlin’ up the stairs quietlike so I wouldn’t hear and opening the door soft so I wouldn’t hear and he’d be creepin’ to the bed trying to spread my legs trying to get back up in my womb. He was a man, girl, a big old growed-up man. I didn’t have that much room. I kept on dreaming it. Dreaming it and I knowed it was true. One night it wouldn’t be no dream. It’d be true and I would have done it, would have let him if I’d’ve had the room but a big man can’t be a baby all wrapped up inside his mamma no more; he suffocate.“ .....

...... I take this to mean that Plum was trying to have sex with her, but was she really dreaming or just telling herself that?! (hide spoiler)]

Lulu wrote: "Ok!! There is a part I want to talk about that deals with Eva and Plum that is in the 1923 section. Now when Eva says.... “ I’d be laying here at night and he be downstairs in that room, but when I..."

I think she was dreaming and was afraid that one day it would come true and before that happened she killed him. Plum was on drugs. He and Shadrack were both veterans correct? I think they were both victims of PTSD. Morrison is good at confusing me, she is just a little too high above my head.

Lulu wrote: "Ok!! There is a part I want to talk about that deals with Eva and Plum that is in the 1923 section. Now when Eva says.... “ I’d be laying here at night and he be downstairs in that room, but when I..."

Oh, as disturbing as it is, I think this passage was so incredibly beautifully written! I read it over several times. I agree with Joy. Eva saw Plum as becoming more and more dependent on her (trying to climb back into her womb) just as he was when he was a baby. I think she was saying a grown man cannot be like that.

Joy wrote: "Why did the author disregard Pearl? She [spoilers removed]"

Maybe it's because she got married and moved away when she was still very young. She didn't really experience life in Medallion.

Trudy wrote: "Lulu wrote: "Ok!! There is a part I want to talk about that deals with Eva and Plum that is in the 1923 section. Now when Eva says.... “ I’d be laying here at night and he be downstairs in that roo..."

Ms. Morrison definitely makes you think. It just shocks me that Eva did so much to save her children, espcially Plum only to turn around and kinda "give up" on him.

Lulu wrote: "Trudy wrote: "Lulu wrote: "Ok!! There is a part I want to talk about that deals with Eva and Plum that is in the 1923 section. Now when Eva says.... “ I’d be laying here at night and he be downstai..."

Toni Morrison’s brain is a kaleidoscope of brilliances! As readers, we certainly have to work hard to keep up with her, but, Honey, it is so worth. I love her!

Dosha (Bluestocking7) wrote: "Lulu wrote: "Ok!! There is a part I want to talk about that deals with Eva and Plum that is in the 1923 section. Now when Eva says.... “ I’d be laying here at night and he be downstairs in that roo..."

The story of Shadrack and Plum are so sad to me because in reality, they're victims of a faulty system. Veterans are often cast out with no resources or support. They both clearly needed help, re-assimilating to society and were cast out by society, at this time probably because they were black.

This book is short but there's so much in it to unpack. And there's this overwhelming sadness with each part, between Shadrack, Plum, Chicken Little, Hannah, etc. I'm curious to see how it wraps up!

Joy wrote: "I just started 1937. I think Sula is a psychopath based on Chicken, Hannah and Eva. I have yet to read what she will do next. She just came back to Medallion."

I agree, after reading the entire book.

Toni Morrison is a very deep writer, and I found myself wondering how much of what she wrote was symbolic and for us to interpret without being too literal. While they have very different styles, at times I thought of Margaret Atwood--both write amazing prose, but their characters often seem to be a bit detached in some ways, at least to me.

I agree that Shadrack and Plum were victims of a system that did nothing for veterans with PTSD back then. However, and I realize this might be harsh, but after what happened with Plum and then what happened when Nel visited her in the old folks home, it was hard for me to maintain the repect and empathy I'd had for her for much of the book. At the time that she burned Plum, I had at once understood her hastening his eventual death because she hated to see him suffer but was appalled and couldn't empathize with a woman who would choose such an excruciating death. I am unable to bring myself to see that kind of a death as an act of love even if she did cradle him first even if that was meant by it. But then her attempt to climb out of the house to save Hannah was back to the love. Finally, her hatred of Sula at the end had me thinking she was as mean as Nel concluded, and a complex woman whose feelings aren't easily pinned down.

When she later talked about him trying to fill her womb, I thought about the sex vs literal interpretation. However, I thought it was more of a graphically disturbing way to discuss how he was trying to be as dependent on her as when he was a baby and even needed her to help him defecate. The scene when he was constipated as a baby showed her love and her dedication to keeping him comfortable and alive.

More Discussion.......... feel free to discuss book up to section 1937 without spoiler tags ......

1. Sula overheard her mother telling a friend she loved her, but didn't like her. Do you think this had anything to do with Sula not helping Hannah when she was on fire. Do you think Sula was really frozen in shock?

2. Someone mentioned earlier that Sula was a psychopath, Do you agree with that sentiment? I honestly feel like Nel was one as well, just a little more kempt (my personal opinion, not necessarily any evidence to back this, lol)

3. Sula left the Bottom almost immediately after Jude and Nel's wedding, do you think there was specific reason for this or was it just a coincidence?

I’m a little confused by question #2. Why was Nell responsible? Sula was the one who mistakenly hurled Chicken Little into the river, right?

Trudy wrote: "I’m a little confused by question #2. Why was Nell responsible? Sula was the one who mistakenly hurled Chicken Little into the river, right?"

Trudy you are 100% correct. I totally misread that part as both Sula and Nel swinging Chicken Little, not just Sula. My bad!! Lol. I’m gonna delete that question.

Number 3. I got the impression that Sula left after the wedding to go to college.

Lulu wrote: " More Discussion.......... feel free to discuss book up to section 1937 without spoiler tags ......

1. Sula overheard her mother telling a friend she loved her, but didn't like her. Do you think ..."

#1. For some odd reason, Sula puts me in the mind of THE BAD SEED's daughter, Rhoda... Although Sula's not collecting prized items after every 'mysterious' events, she, definitely, has a dark side to her.

I think after Sula hears her mother, Hannah, make that statement to her friends, her heart grew cold towards the women in her life... Making it easy to 'discard' any, and all feelings.

Sidebar: The Bad Seed's a black & white '50's movie classic (imo)