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The Children's Book
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Q2 The Children's Book by A.S. Byatt
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Thanks for the above description, Diane. To get things started for this Quarterly, here are some questions for month 1:Pre-Questions:
1. Have you read anything by A.S Byatt previously? If so, which books? What are you expecting going into this one?
2. The book is set from the year 1895 to WWI, and follows several families, some of which are involved in the Fabian Society. Do you have any knowledge about this movement going into the book? Are there any historical movements/events you expect will come up in this book given the time it’s set in?
Questions:
1. Why is this novel called The Children's Book? Discuss the many possible meanings this title suggests.
2. How are fairy tales important to the novel—both to the story and to the characters themselves? Byatt has said in interviews that fairy tales and the children's books of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, such as E. Nesbit's magical stories and The Wind in the Willows, inspired her to write the novel; do you see echoes of any of your favorite children's stories here?
3. How is the experience of reading the book going in the first third? (I found it a little difficult at first due to the shifting POV from a large cast of characters, but then fell into it). How does the narrative style seem to be fitting the story?
4. From the opening scene, pottery—the craft of it, its history, the contrast between fine art and factory-made pieces—is a recurring presence throughout the novel. How does Byatt use the metaphor of clay to enrich the story?
5. Who is your favorite character/ which ones do you find interesting going in? Think about how this changes as you read/if it does. Which of the main families/households from the story would you most like to be a part of- if any?
6. Motherhood is a crucial part of the novel, and of Olive's stories; Olive herself is something of a "Mother Goose," as in her story "The Shrubbery" on pages 105–114. But is Olive a good mother? What about Violet, and the other mothers in the story?
7. In an essay she wrote for the London Times, Byatt wrote, "There is a strong case to be made that the Edwardians enjoyed school stories, magical tales, and tales of children alone in landscapes—woodland camps, secret expeditions—because they were themselves reluctant to grow up." How do the adults in the novel reflect this idea? What distinction do the characters make between childhood and adulthood? What distinction is Byatt making through the novel?
8. How are class distinctions evident in the first third of the novel? How do think these barriers will affect the upcoming chapters? What statements are made by making many of the upper class characters Fabian society members?
9. How are you enjoying the book so far? What would you like to see it the upcoming chapters?
Discuss!
I haven’t read Byatt before, I thought this is a collection of children’s stories lol. I still have to finish Goldfinch, looking forward for this read.
1. Have you read anything by A.S Byatt previously? If so, which books? What are you expecting going into this one?I recently finished The Virgin in the Garden. To be honest, I wasn't enamored with Byatt's writing style. That being said, my expectations are set low for this one.
2. The book is set from the year 1895 to WWI, and follows several families, some of which are involved in the Fabian Society. Do you have any knowledge about this movement going into the book? Are there any historical movements/events you expect will come up in this book given the time it’s set in?
Not a clue. Maybe women's suffrage movement? Olympic games?
I have read nothing by A.S. Byatt before.The world was roiling right before WWI. Women's suffrage movement, anarchist movement, socialist workers movements all were growing. Fabian society, if I remember correctly was a movement toward socialism by a reform process rather than through revolution. Conversely nationalism was growing also which contributed to WWI as the big empires like Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire started to disintegrate and the last emperor of China abdicated. I suspect the shakiness of the British empire will come up in the book as Ireland and India both had growing independence movements.
Mod
I have not read any books by Byatt. I have heard so much horror stories about Byatt and her books tend to be long so I have avoided starting any. I also own Possession and have for quite some time.
2. The book is set from the year 1895 to WWI, and follows several families, some of which are involved in the Fabian Society. Do you have any knowledge about this movement going into the book? Are there any historical movements/events you expect will come up in this book given the time it’s set in?
I haven't thought particularly about the Fabian Society but much of the history I am encountering in the story do seem familiar. I also think that the book while set in 1895 fits quite well in today's political environment.
Mod
2. How are fairy tales important to the novel—both to the story and to the characters themselves? Byatt has said in interviews that fairy tales and the children's books of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, such as E. Nesbit's magical stories and The Wind in the Willows, inspired her to write the novel; do you see echoes of any of your favorite children's stories here? You can see this inspiration in the many references to children's stories, fairy tales and the variations found in different countries. The main point is that the mother is writing various stories for her children.
3. How is the experience of reading the book going in the first third? (I found it a little difficult at first due to the shifting POV from a large cast of characters, but then fell into it). How does the narrative style seem to be fitting the story? Overall, listening to the book I think probably helped. The cast of characters is really too large.
4. From the opening scene, pottery—the craft of it, its history, the contrast between fine art and factory-made pieces—is a recurring presence throughout the novel. How does Byatt use the metaphor of clay to enrich the story? I don't have an answer that is right for this question but thinking of man made from clay, this book examines all the many weakness and deceits of this family and the vulnerability to being broken.
5. Who is your favorite character/ which ones do you find interesting going in? Think about how this changes as you read/if it does. Which of the main families/households from the story would you most like to be a part of- if any? I liked Dorothy. I liked some of the others as well. I liked Elsie. Your favorites do change as you read along.
6. Motherhood is a crucial part of the novel, and of Olive's stories; Olive herself is something of a "Mother Goose," as in her story "The Shrubbery" on pages 105–114. But is Olive a good mother? What about Violet, and the other mothers in the story? I didn't think Olive a good mother. I thought she was wrapped up in her writing. She really didn't seem connected to her children at all.
7. In an essay she wrote for the London Times, Byatt wrote, "There is a strong case to be made that the Edwardians enjoyed school stories, magical tales, and tales of children alone in landscapes—woodland camps, secret expeditions—because they were themselves reluctant to grow up." How do the adults in the novel reflect this idea? What distinction do the characters make between childhood and adulthood? What distinction is Byatt making through the novel?
Some of the younger like Elsie was more grown up that some of the older children. The adults in the story liked to play and celebrated midsummer parties and run naked, etc.
8. How are class distinctions evident in the first third of the novel? How do think these barriers will affect the upcoming chapters? What statements are made by making many of the upper class characters Fabian society members? Philip and his sister Elsie are from a working class. They get taken in but never treated as equals, they are also never paid for their work but they do get board and lodging which is worth something.
9. How are you enjoying the book so far? What would you like to see it the upcoming chapters? I enjoyed the book. It was full of a massive amount of information with a unique way of presenting the information.
1. Why is this novel called The Children's Book? Discuss the many possible meanings this title suggests.Olive, who is a primary character in the book, writes fairy tales for a living and has also written separate tales for each of her children that reflect her perspective on the child's character and how he/she interacts with the world. She is also living a bit of a fairy tale in that by marrying well and being able to support herself by writing, was able to pull herself and her sister up out of poverty. The author plays with the concepts of childish behavior in adults and adult behavior in children. All the adult characters have a touch of the child in them but all in different ways.
2. How are fairy tales important to the novel—both to the story and to the characters themselves? Byatt has said in interviews that fairy tales and the children's books of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, such as E. Nesbit's magical stories and The Wind in the Willows, inspired her to write the novel; do you see echoes of any of your favorite children's stories here?
We are told by the narrator that Olive does not believe in fairy tales or rather that she does not believe in fairies and elves but nevertheless she believes in some spiritual realm in which things happen which can not be logically explained. Other of the grown ups study children's stories to find the deep rooted mythology of their cultures, either through words, artifacts or puppets. These children's stories are a way of teaching and learning and it is one way in which a culture is passed down to the next generation.
3. How is the experience of reading the book going in the first third? (I found it a little difficult at first due to the shifting POV from a large cast of characters, but then fell into it). How does the narrative style seem to be fitting the story?
I enjoy the children and the teenagers (though they are never called that in the book) and when the book is with them I am anxious to read along. The adults are a bit slower going for me but nevertheless the narrative style of multiple perspectives keeps things complex and moving.
4. From the opening scene, pottery—the craft of it, its history, the contrast between fine art and factory-made pieces—is a recurring presence throughout the novel. How does Byatt use the metaphor of clay to enrich the story?
I love the metaphor Byatt uses about how character is born but then also shaped and formed by circumstances. The clay is often dangerous if there is a slight imperfection in it as it will explode and it will take everything else in the kiln with it. The common clay that is Philip and his own ability to make things that are precise and fine even though he has never owned or even really seen such fine objects is the promise while there are those such as Cain whose world it is to know but not to do. It is a rich backdrop for the whole class structure of England at the time also. We have been in multiple kitchens where the tea cups do not match and also in kitchens where there are no tea cups.
5. Who is your favorite character/ which ones do you find interesting going in? Think about how this changes as you read/if it does. Which of the main families/households from the story would you most like to be a part of- if any?
Well I certainly would rather be running through the woods at Todefright than being afraid to breath with the Fludds but I am most impressed so far with Dorothy, though she is a bit dry and Elsie, who is not at all dry but has yet to take center stage.
6. Motherhood is a crucial part of the novel, and of Olive's stories; Olive herself is something of a "Mother Goose," as in her story "The Shrubbery" on pages 105–114. But is Olive a good mother? What about Violet, and the other mothers in the story?
The wonderful thing is that Olive and Violet together make a good mother and somehow they must know that. One provides a vision, a mythology, a way of living for her children (and financial support) while Violet is the one that gives the children real direct attention and practical care. Most of the other mothers in the book are dead or barely there at all.
7. In an essay she wrote for the London Times, Byatt wrote, "There is a strong case to be made that the Edwardians enjoyed school stories, magical tales, and tales of children alone in landscapes—woodland camps, secret expeditions—because they were themselves reluctant to grow up." How do the adults in the novel reflect this idea? What distinction do the characters make between childhood and adulthood? What distinction is Byatt making through the novel? I suspect most generations are reluctant to grow up but the difference here is that some of the adults and some of the children do not want to leave home. Teenagers usually are anxious to leave and assert their independence. The Edwardians where well healed and believed in their ability to make a better world and therefore their adventures were of a childish sort and they did not appear to be anxious to leave their sanctuaries. Geriant is desperate to get out but even someone like Julian doesn't seem to be in a big hurry to go out into the world.
8. How are class distinctions evident in the first third of the novel? How do think these barriers will affect the upcoming chapters? What statements are made by making many of the upper class characters Fabian society members? It is the Edwardian fairy tale that the middle class can change the world for the better without any of the destruction and chaos that comes with radical change. We have yet to meet truly upper class people in this story. All of the characters need to work and all of the characters are on the edge of ruin. We learn that even Basil who works higher up in the Bank of England is capable of being ruined. Cain's livelihood is dependent on political conflicts between the military and the civilians interested in his museum. These are not people that own estates or that have incomes outside of their work.
9. How are you enjoying the book so far? What would you like to see it the upcoming chapters?
It did take me a bit to get rolling but I am now looking forward to continuing and would like to see where Philip and Elise go and how Tom recovers and if Dorothy is "allowed" to study to be a doctor.
1. Why is this novel called The Children's Book? Discuss the many possible meanings this title suggests.The main character writes children's books and the books she writes are about her children.
3. How is the experience of reading the book going in the first third? (I found it a little difficult at first due to the shifting POV from a large cast of characters, but then fell into it). How does the narrative style seem to be fitting the story?
I agree that this is a huge cast of characters. It took me a while to settle into it.
4. From the opening scene, pottery—the craft of it, its history, the contrast between fine art and factory-made pieces—is a recurring presence throughout the novel. How does Byatt use the metaphor of clay to enrich the story?
Love Gail's answer for this.
6. Motherhood is a crucial part of the novel, and of Olive's stories; Olive herself is something of a "Mother Goose," as in her story "The Shrubbery" on pages 105–114. But is Olive a good mother? What about Violet, and the other mothers in the story?
Olive may appear a good mother on the surface to the casual observer, but she really isn't. She has built a facade through her reputation and the messages of morality in her books. In reality, she is emotionally detached from her children and her priorities lie elsewhere.
9. How are you enjoying the book so far? What would you like to see it the upcoming chapters?
It took me a while to get into it, but I am enjoying it for the most part. I am not crazy abotu Byatt's writing style, but I do find this book very creative.
Mod
1. Have you read anything by A.S Byatt previously? If so, which books? What are you expecting going into this one?
I have read Possession with this group about ten years ago and I was not a fan. I approached this one with some apprehension.
2. The book is set from the year 1895 to WWI, and follows several families, some of which are involved in the Fabian Society. Do you have any knowledge about this movement going into the book? Are there any historical movements/events you expect will come up in this book given the time it’s set in?
Among the “obvious” historical events of the era, we can list the death of Queen Victoria and the end of the Victorian era; the rise of various socialist movements in several European countries; and the advent of WWI. For some strange reason, I have always mixed up (up to now) the Fenians and the Fabians, being more familiar with the first ones. I guess this book will help me to finally clearly differentiate them.
Questions:
1. Why is this novel called The Children's Book? Discuss the many possible meanings this title suggests.
The first obvious reference is to the fairy tale stories that Olive Wellwood writes for her children. Having finished the book though, there is another meaning which I would divulge when answering later questions (or in my review).
2. How are fairy tales important to the novel—both to the story and to the characters themselves? Byatt has said in interviews that fairy tales and the children's books of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, such as E. Nesbit's magical stories and The Wind in the Willows, inspired her to write the novel; do you see echoes of any of your favorite children's stories here?
As it was made quite clear in the novel, the fairy tale genre was experienced a resurgence/revival around that period, primarily inspired by the old German tales written by the Grimm brothers (among others). To some extent, they can be seen as paraphrases of the end of the Victorian era and some of the utopian elements of the socialist/Fenian movements, which seem to promise a much better world than the one with flagrant inequalities that was prevailing at the end of the 19th century.
3. How is the experience of reading the book going in the first third? (I found it a little difficult at first due to the shifting POV from a large cast of characters, but then fell into it). How does the narrative style seem to be fitting the story?
The writing style fits some of the ideologies espoused by some of the main adult characters: we are flirting with anarchy, therefore the point-of-view is constantly changing and taking different and free shapes; we are flirting with socialist, even communist ideas, therefore there is no single hero, all characters end up getting some of the spotlight, the hero here is more a collective form (spoiler: ultimately, it’s all the children from the youth to early adulthood).
5. Who is your favorite character/ which ones do you find interesting going in? Think about how this changes as you read/if it does. Which of the main families/households from the story would you most like to be a part of- if any?
The answer to this question would probably change throughout the book. At first, I would prefer to be part of the Todefright Wellwood family, despite the number of children present. Despite their socialist views and behaviours, they remain (at least for some time) quite well off; I couldn’t help labelling them with a French moniker quite in fashion in the 80s and 90s: gauche caviar. I could feel sympathy for Philip, whom I thought at this point would really be the main character.
6. Motherhood is a crucial part of the novel, and of Olive's stories; Olive herself is something of a "Mother Goose," as in her story "The Shrubbery" on pages 105–114. But is Olive a good mother? What about Violet, and the other mothers in the story?
This one is hard to answer without giving away too many spoilers. Not entirely sure that Olive is a good mother, as a lot of the domestic duties are picked up by her sister Violet; Olive is more focused (as she will not have the choice) on writing more children books.
8. How are class distinctions evident in the first third of the novel? How do think these barriers will affect the upcoming chapters? What statements are made by making many of the upper class characters Fabian society members?
The story of Philip (and his family) provides the best example of the gap between classes. Even though the Wellwoods do their best to ignore this gap, the differences are perpetuated when Philip (and later his sister Elsie) end up living with the Fludds and working with any salary.
1. I read Possession some time in the late 90's with a book group I was in while living in Hong Kong. One of my friends got really bogged down in the poetry which prefaced each chapter and got very cross when I airily confessed that I had skim read all the "Victorian" poetry. I quite enjoyed the book, although it took a long time to read so I was relieved I had three months to listen to an Audible version of The Children's Book.2. Yes, the Fabian Society was mentioned in other seminal books written about the same period such as Dorothy Richardson's books and Anthony Powell's Dance to the Music of Time. I would have expected mention of the Boer War, Queen Victoria's death, and the events leading up to the First World War. I didn't expect to have Oscar Wilde, the founding of the Victoria and Albert museum and so much about the suffragettes.
1. The children are many of the characters, Olive writes individual fairy stories for all of her children, there are children of the children who are born towards the end of the book and the book concerns the way children are perceived and nurtured.
2. The Wind in the Willows was a favourite of mine that is mentioned in this book, but so was Winnie the Pooh which is not mentioned. I am not familiar with E, Nesbitt's books on whom Olive Wellwood is modelled, it has been suggested. The puppet shows involve fairy stories, more particularly Germanic tales such as Grimm's which have been watered down in English versions. Olive is an expert on English folk tales and earns her living writing fairy stories, some of which are part of this book.
3. I listened to a version narrated by Juliet Stephenson who was brilliant at conveying the different accents. She breathed life into the characters and so I was enjoying the book from the start.
4. The potter crafting a pot on a wheel was a metaphor for life itself. I was impressed with the amount of knowledge A.S. Byatt conveyed about the art and science of pottery. I was impressed as I could not stand the feel of clay on my hands when I tried it myself.
5. I found Dorothy the most interesting character, although they were all fascinating. I think Prosper Kain's family was the one I would most like to belong to, even though it was motherless.
6. Both Olive and Violet were problematic mothers, neither of them worrying themselves about the parentage of their offspring and how they might be psychologically damaged by the unusual relationships. Elsie seemd to be the person most capable of being a good mother and Seraphina Fludd was the most negligent, making no effort to protect her children.
7. I had forgotten to include Peter Pan earlier, and that, of course, is the quintessential story of the boy who didn't want to grow up. The play as an adaptation of the novel featured prominently in this book and the adult characters enjoyed this play, the puppet shows and their own childlike celebration of the summer solstice, fancy dress and all.
8. Exploitation of workers is a recurrent theme, particularly the fate of Philip and Elsie Warren by the Fludds. Elsie is adamant that her relationship with Julian is an impossibility. She sees class differences in a much more clear eyed way than other characters.
9. I loved the book and I have a new appreciation of A.S. Byatt.
When Olive Wellwood’s oldest son discovers a runaway named Philip sketching in the basement of the new Victoria and Albert Museum—a talented working-class boy who could be a character out of one of Olive’s magical tales—she takes him into the storybook world of her family and friends.
But the joyful bacchanals Olive hosts at her rambling country house—and the separate, private books she writes for each of her seven children—conceal more treachery and darkness than Philip has ever imagined. As these lives—of adults and children alike—unfold, lies are revealed, hearts are broken, and the damaging truth about the Wellwoods slowly emerges. But their personal struggles, their hidden desires, will soon be eclipsed by far greater forces, as the tides turn across Europe and a golden era comes to an end.
Taking us from the cliff-lined shores of England to Paris, Munich, and the trenches of the Somme, The Children’s Book is a deeply affecting story of a singular family, played out against the great, rippling tides of the day. It is a masterly literary achievement by one of our most essential writers.