English Mysteries Club discussion

This is our Golden Age mystery group read for April. Have fun with this one everybody! It was a group read in February 2015, if anyone would like to read that thread too.

I'm in! I love this book!

I haven't read it for a while and it's on one of my bookshelves gathering dust so I think I'll join the Group Read. It's been long enough that I can't remember the story that well.

I don’t remember a lot about this one, but since I gave it a low rating, I’ll be passing.

I put the audiobook version on reserve with my library service and it's become available just at the right time. I don't know Georgette Heyer, so looking forward to it.

Just found my copy on the bookshelves and I remember it not at all.
Liked the tag line though on the back of my copy

"A dramatic tale of upstairs, downstairs and family secrets".

I admit that I'm trying to finish the book I'm reading so I can dive into this one without distractions.

This one begins today! Some seem to love it, and others not, so I'm intrigued. My talking book is on its way :)

I read this one for another group last month..but before I forget what I read and thought, I will go ahead and comment:
(view spoiler)[Frank-- what an arrogant jerk! What right did he have to decide to take the law in his own hands at the car accident and inquest. He decided to let Shirley, who he had just met, go and lied for her. THen he withholds evidence from the police, sends them off on wild goose chase, and his secretiveness cost Mark his life. His whole attitude of Only-I-know-what-is-right-and-you-are-dumb really annoyed me and kept me emotionally detached to the mystery and relationships.
Mark- just so sad and pathetic.
Shirley--I could never care what happened to her. (hide spoiler)]

I listened to audiobook and have to admit I got lost a few times. The two butlers got confused in my mind.

Oh dear! I'll watch that then as I'm not usually very good with audio. I have to "see" the names in my mind!

Me too - if I can see the names, listening is easier.

Funny - my husband can't understand this at all, but it's just the way my brain works - and yours too by the sound of it Chris :)

I am definitely a visual learner. I knit or do jigsaw puzzles on my kindle to help me focus, but I need the names. I was listening to Murder in an Irish Village and was completely confused as all the names were foreign to me. I switched to kindle ebook and was able to enjoy it. I took six years of Spanish and was reading novels in Spanish, but I had a horrible time understanding oral Spanish. Got to be a correlation.

I finished this morning and while I don't think it was one of Heyer's best stories it was an engaging whodunit. Of course if people had said what they knew right from the beginning then there wouldn't have been a mystery so glad they didn't.

Every character had a piece of information to help the whole story move along except perhaps for Mark - my opinion only obvously.

My favourite character(s) Sergeant Gubbins and Lady Matthews

I'm about at the halfway point, and I'm loving every page of this book! I've read it multiple times but I just love it!

I have finished the book and have these dislikes about it: 1- I disliked most of the characters except Anthony, Lady Matthews and Gubbins.
2- Didn't like Amberley.
3- The addition of romance between Amberley and the woman who was almost as rude as he was.
4- Too long a retelling at the end.
5- What some people call author cheating because Amberley knew so much that he refused to reveal either to the police or the reader.

Cozy_Pug wrote: "I'm about at the halfway point, and I'm loving every page of this book! I've read it multiple times but I just love it!"
I made a mistake when I said I'd read this before. I didn't remember any of it and I know my memory isn't that bad yet. So it turns out that this was the only one of Heyer's mysteries that I hadn't read so a nice surprise.

I can't say I loved it Cozy_Pug, but I did find it very enjoyable, especially the interplay between Gubbins and Amberley which made me laugh.

And the mystery kept me reading because I wanted to know all the ins and outs and to see if I'd got it right.

Jacqui wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "I'm about at the halfway point, and I'm loving every page of this book! I've read it multiple times but I just love it!"
I made a mistake when I said I'd read this before. I didn't..."

Well how fun is that, a brand new mystery to you! I'm glad you enjoyed it even if it wasn't love.

Betsy wrote: "I have finished the book and have these dislikes about it: 1- I disliked most of the characters except Anthony, Lady Matthews and Gubbins.
2- Didn't like Amberley.
3- The addition of romance betwe..."

I'm sorry this book was a bit of a bust for you. I'm the one who nominated it, so I feel a bit bad for those who read it and didn't like it. :(

I'm curious to know how many stars you rated it.

I finished Why Shoot a Butler? today, and it's no surprise - I love this book! It gets the full 5 stars from me. Why do I love it so much?

First, atmosphere. Heyer writes some fabulously sinister and suspense filled scenes. Not too scary, but just enough to be vivid and make you feel like you're there. Some of my favorites -

...the manor brooded over past sins and past tragedies.

The manor was bathed in moonlight, with sharp black shadows thrown out along the ground. The house looked unfriendly, for the curtains were closely drawn and no welcoming light shone from any window.

...watching through the crack, saw for a moment a gloved hand holding back the curtain; then it moved and grasped the window sill. Soundlessly the nocturnal visitor climbed into the room; for an instant as he stood in the shaft of moonlight....

The wood seemed all at once, to her overwrought nerves, to be alive with tiny, nameless sounds. The fallen leaves rustled, perhaps a rabbit stirred amongst them; a twig cracked; the shadow of a tree seemed to move.

She felt that hidden eyes watched her...a sharp exclamation rose to her lips. The torch had lit up a face for one moment, a face that shone pale in the bright light and disappeared instantly behind a bush.

Second, dialogue. Heyer writes great dialogue - it has a natural rhythm and a natural sound. Sometimes it's snappy and quick, sometimes it's slow and brooding. The dialogue between Amberley and Sergeant Gubbins is such fun - Amberley winds him up, and the Sergeant gives as good as he gets.

Third, the mystery - it's not too convoluted, but not too simple. There aren't new characters brought in near the end to throw the reader off, and I think Heyer gives enough fair clues along the way for the reader to piece together what's going on, or at least have a rough idea.

Lastly, the setting gets me. I love an English village murder mystery, with some manor houses and pubs of course. A large party at a manor house is always fun, and we get the best kind of party for a murder mystery - a masquerade! Oh, I just love that part of the book - it's a great way for an uninvited guest to slip in and do a bit of snooping!

I'm usually not a fan of making books into movies, but reading Why Shoot a Butler? I think it would've been a fun movie. A movie you might find on TCM on a weekday afternoon, black and white, mid 1930's, British produced of course, with some not so famous actors. Maybe a young Cary Grant as Frank Amberley - I kept hearing his voice as Frank while I was reading lol! But the setting, suspense, and dialogue pull you in, and it turns out to be a pretty good story.

Favorite character - Sergeant Gubbins
Favorite scene - the masquerade ball
Favorite quote - 'After all, why shoot a butler? Where’s the point?'

I am joining the reading (a bit late) and I find it very interesting. It is the first book I read by this author. I didn't know her before.

Thoroughly enjoyable whodunnit that kept me guessing what was behind the murders and who committed them until very nearly the end. This is my first Heyer and I love her wickedly dry humour. Normally, the amateur sleuth character is very likeable but Frank Amberley is rude, disparaging towards everyone, pompous, patronising and arrogant. That’s certainly a different approach from the norm!

I hated the silly romance between Frank and Shirley. Who would have wanted either of them from their behaviour? And he kept calling her child, yeuch! The cynic in me thinks he was just after her fortune! Thank you Cozy_Pug for nominating this. It was a quick read and very entertaining.

Fiona wrote: "Thoroughly enjoyable whodunnit that kept me guessing what was behind the murders and who committed them until very nearly the end. This is my first Heyer and I love her wickedly dry humour. Normall..."

I'm glad you enjoyed it in spite of Frank :D

I think Frank's arrogance is partly just his personality and partly from his career as a very successful barrister. And maybe partly due to his class. Maybe Heyer overdid his arrogance lol, but it didn't sour me on him.

Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Thoroughly enjoyable whodunnit that kept me guessing what was behind the murders and who committed them until very nearly the end. This is my first Heyer and I love her wickedly dry h..."

I don’t think we can blame class on this one, CP, with so many of the characters upper class. Personally, I thought he was hilarious and would happily follow him in a series!

Fiona wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Thoroughly enjoyable whodunnit that kept me guessing what was behind the murders and who committed them until very nearly the end. This is my first Heyer and I love h..."

True, I was thinking of how Frank used his position - his career and his place in the county/village - to work on the case. I don't think the inspector and chief constable would let him investigate if he didn't have those things going for him.

Frank didn't bother me, either. Like I said, when reading the book, he became Cary Grant in my mind lol! If this book had been made into a movie, I think Cary Grant could have pulled off the character of Frank perfectly.

Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Thoroughly enjoyable whodunnit that kept me guessing what was behind the murders and who committed them until very nearly the end. This is my first Heye..."

I thought David Niven. Very English, wot?!

Just got my hands on a copy from the e-library loan. And wouldn't you know it, I just started another book. I'll see how quickly I can get to it.

I always assumed Georgette Heyer’s books were only romance so this was a pleasant surprise. Enjoyable read, good characters, especially Gubbins. Nice job on the replacement butler! :)

Fiona wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Thoroughly enjoyable whodunnit that kept me guessing what was behind the murders and who committed them until very nearly the end. This..."

Too funny you mention this, because I thought about David Niven as I was reading! But I couldn't make him fit as Frank, my brain kept going back to Cary Grant :D

I did think David Niven might have worked well as Tony Corkran....

Pamela - I hope you enjoy it!

Helen - Yes, Heyer was better known for her historical romances, but I prefer her mysteries.

That was a clever move on Frank's part, wasn't it!

Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Thoroughly enjoyable whodunnit that kept me guessing what was behind the murders and who committed them until very nearly..."

Ah no, that’s Hugh Laurie (out of his time, I know!).

wonderful to read this thread, as I have only ever read posts about Heyer from Heyer fans like myself. And most if not all of us came from enjoying her romances.
This is one of Heyer's mysteries I like the least, but I came to enjoy it and all of them after mulitple readings. The setting is interesting and the dialog very good (of course!) but the slang from that era doesn't seem as much fun to me as that from her romances.
Heyer is just such a good writer I enjoy them if only for that.
But were there ever two such unlikable main characters?

Fiona wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Cozy_Pug wrote: "Fiona wrote: "Thoroughly enjoyable whodunnit that kept me guessing what was behind the murders and who committed them ..."

LOL! Hugh Laurie would've been a brilliant Tony Corkran!

Jackie wrote: "wonderful to read this thread, as I have only ever read posts about Heyer from Heyer fans like myself. And most if not all of us came from enjoying her romances.
This is one of Heyer's mysteries I..."

I'm the backwards Heyer fan, because I read her mysteries first and loved them, then tried the Regency romances and couldn't get into them.

Shirley and Frank wouldn't win any popularity contests, I guess :D

Cozy Pug, which mystery is your favorite? mine is The Unfinished Clue with Behold, Here's Poison runner up.

Jackie wrote: "Cozy Pug, which mystery is your favorite? mine is The Unfinished Clue with Behold, Here's Poison runner up."

This is a tough question! I really love them all!

A few that stand out in my mind -

Behold, Here's Poison
No Wind of Blame
Envious Casca
Penhallow

I found this a very enjoyable read from an author I was unfamiliar with. I enjoyed the twists and turns and liked most of the characters - although I thought Frank could be really arrogant and aggressive at times! The explanation at the end was a bit drawn out, but I liked the humor with the sergeant implying he had pieced together key aspects of the case and Frank telling him his next career should be on the stage. I'll definitely read more by this author.

Erin wrote: "I found this a very enjoyable read from an author I was unfamiliar with. I enjoyed the twists and turns and liked most of the characters - although I thought Frank could be really arrogant and aggr..."

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Frank seems to be unanimously considered arrogant :D Frank and the sergeant had a great rapport - I really enjoyed them.

I liked Frank and Gubbins definitely but I also liked Lady Matthews, very understated but she knew exactly what was going on.

Jacqui wrote: "I liked Frank and Gubbins definitely but I also liked Lady Matthews, very understated but she knew exactly what was going on."

Lady Matthews is a surprise! She seems so vague and self absorbed, then all of a sudden we realize she knows exactly what's what.

I really enjoyed reading this book and wasn't bothered by Frank Amberley's arrogance but I admit I was a little disappointed that he kept so many things close to the vest. At the final reveal there were many things I couldn't have gotten.

One thing I did get right off the bat was that Frank and Shirley would fall for each other — otherwise, they wouldn't have have sniped at each other as much as they did.

I was more bothered by Frank's cousin Felicity — she acted like one of those clueless characters that books of this era have to have — and the cluelessness of the police inspector. The other police in the story were equally clueless but at least they let Frank have his head in the investigation (not realistic but fun).

I agree with the rest of you that Lady Matthews is a hoot. She is really the star of the story in a lot of ways.

It's interesting that none of us remark about Shirley's brother, Mark. I didn't feel there was much of a point in having him, especially as he was drawn. I feel sort of the same way with Joan Fountain, other than it allowed Heyer to introduce Anthony Corkran into the mix. He's a fun character but wasn't much of an addition to the story.

I did struggle a bit with all the different characters in the story, but I have been having that for a while, so I have taken to writing out a list of characters and story notes and it helps a great deal.

This is the third mystery I have read by Heyer and I really liked all of them. I wonder why she didn't write more. I guess I will have to try reading one of her romances, perhaps they were more popular at the time but her multilayered mysteries are very strong and compelling reading.

Pamela wrote: "I really enjoyed reading this book and wasn't bothered by Frank Amberley's arrogance but I admit I was a little disappointed that he kept so many things close to the vest. At the final reveal there..."

I'm glad you enjoyed the book!

That's a good point about Mark - none of us mentioned him! Poor thing. For me, his biggest contribution was his suspicious death. That added a lot of interest.

Cozy Pug,
I'd forgotten Envious Casca, that was another stand out. But I really didn't care for Penhallow.

Jackie wrote: "Cozy Pug,
I'd forgotten Envious Casca, that was another stand out. But I really didn't care for Penhallow."

The first time I read Penhallow, I didn't much care for it, either. It was ages before anyone died and that frustrated me. But when I reread it, I knew what to expect and I enjoyed it so much that it's now one of my favorites.

I finished the book for April and I loved it! It was so totally English! I liked all of the characters. Frank was exceptionally intelligent and observant which made him able to investigate well. Yes, he was blunt and did not suffer foolish people well. But he was gentle at times when it called for it as well. Felicity was the impetus for the murderous action toward Shirley and she means well. However she is a bit clueless. I loved every pompous minute of this story and will definitely read more from Dorothy Sayers. I had not read her books before so this is a welcome addition to my library.

Sorry, I meant Georgette Heyer, but I am adding Dorothy Sayer to my interests as well

So, it seems that Ms Heyer wrote a lot of historical romances. I am not usually a romance fan and will be looking for her mysteries rather than a romance. Has anyone read the historical romances?

Cozy_Pug wrote: "Pamela wrote: "I really enjoyed reading this book and wasn't bothered by Frank Amberley's arrogance but I admit I was a little disappointed that he kept so many things close to the vest. At the fin..."

I did but only in passing and even his mysterious death wasn't that interesting to be honest. Not to me anyway.

"Every character had a piece of information to help the whole story move along except perhaps for Mark."

Also one other character which I didn't mention originally but of course there was Bill - I loved his daring attempt to save his mistress.

Ru wrote: "So, it seems that Ms Heyer wrote a lot of historical romances. I am not usually a romance fan and will be looking for her mysteries rather than a romance. Has anyone read the historical romances?"

yes, I have read ALL the romances. I can advise if anyone wants to dip their toe in the water.

for example, two that come with a mystery are The Toll-Gate and The Reluctant Widow although I think I would advise against reading their decriptions at the links I provided. They don't do the books justice at all!

The Tollgate is one that is told almost exclusively from the POV of the hero.

Cozy Pug, I'm not surprised. Heyer's writing is excellent and I have found anything I didn't immediately like improves with re-reading. And so much variety!

Jackie wrote: "Ru wrote: "So, it seems that Ms Heyer wrote a lot of historical romances. I am not usually a romance fan and will be looking for her mysteries rather than a romance. Has anyone read the historical ..."

I'll add The Talisman Ring to that list.