Anabapt-ish Theology Book Club discussion

Are there any related resources you'd want to share with the group? Are there personal experiences related to the book you wanted contribute to the conversation?

I won’t share my whole story here because it’d take too long and you’d all be bored. But hell has been the biggest struggle in my life. I’ve wrestled with it for decades.

As a kid, I just learned Jesus saved us from hell. I wasn’t conscious of eternity or forever and since I knew mostly just other Christians it wasn’t hard to believe in hell.

At some point as a teen I began to ask how God could send my non-Christian friends to hell? I remember fearing the rapture (a whole other story). But I was also always introverted and nice so it wasn’t like I evangelized much. I think, in this, there was always some guilt. I suppose a person could question my story saying I wanted universalism to be true so I kept moving that way.

Anyway, I think I settled into a loose inclusivism as a teen/college student. This is probably what most Christians I knew actually believed - we believed in forever hell but wouldn’t say who was actually there. You know, you can’t judge someone’s heart and “maybe he had a deathbed conversion.” I hoped somehow Jesus would save people. I flirted with Calvinism as well which was some comfort since those going to hell had no chance anyway (okay, that was little comfort).

Over time I read annihilation type books. Edward Fudge’s The Fire That Consumes was HUGE. I was around 30 then and realized that if you take an evangelical proof-text interpretation, annihilation wins. It clearly has the most texts if you just pile them up. Somehow we have taken things like “destruction” and made them “eternal hell.” So to some level I was content. Yet...is it any better if my non-Christian friends just stop existing? More philosophically, will God forget them?

I’d say moving closer to universalism requires a shift in how to interpret scripture and the more I’ve read Maximus the Confessor, Gregory of Nysa, Isaac the Syrian and other fathers, the more open I’ve become to the idea. Jersak, Hart and others have helped too (Illaria Ramelli!) . Even folks like Brian Zahnd and Fleming Rutledge are kind of gateway drugs to the idea. I wouldn’t say I am a for certain universalist. First, I’m not as confident as Hart. Second, working in ministry, I fear being too outspoken will lose jobs and $$$.

That said, I am more confident in my teaching and preaching. I sneak in hopeful ideas with no cognitive dissonance. I really think no one is beyond hope. I see a God I really want to tell people about (though I am still introverted and shy-ish). I mean, I am more comfortable chatting about God with non-Christian folks and being honest because there’s no pressure I’ll mess up and they’ll burn forever because of me.

Okay, that ended up being kind of long. Apologies. It was kind of cathartic though and someone has to get the stories going...

All that to say, this book was one key turning point in my own theological journey.

And as you can see, I’ve been wrestling with this issue for decades!

Thanks for sharing David! I can relate to much of your story, particularly the move to Calvinism to make sense of hell/evil.

I'd also add that I feel my capacity to love others has grown since my view of God/judgement evolved. Maybe you've felt that too.

Interesting, I was raised Baptist/Calvinist (at least 4 point Calvinism), but struggled with God creating "clay pawns" in a sense--those He predestined for Hell. That and the "Lazarus and rich man" parable thinking that I would see those suffering in hell for all eternity and how could I enjoy heaven knowing and seeing them suffering--even if they had made the choice to be there (blame it on my sympathetic heart). And how could God, the epitome of grace and love, have someone tortured for eternity? It was just a few years ago that my husband and I were talking about some different theories of hell he had come across that I admitted struggling with these things for years--and he had, too! So now I would call myself an annihilationist but hopeful extreme restorationist.

Thanks for sharing Jenny.

I think most Christians, deep down, are some sort of “hopeful universalist.” By that I mean, very few will say a specific person died and went to hell. They might take the Billy Graham line - “Its Jesus’ job to save, our job to testify and God’s job to judge” (or something like that). That’s the best of the evangelical tradition I grew up with - sure, people are going to hell but we hope when God judges their hearts many will be saved.

The only way eternal hell makes sense is in a Calvinist perspective. Otherwise, you have to admit people around you are going to hell and they CAN CHANGE yet you (me, us) are going about our days not telling them. If we really believed we could save people from hell, we’d do all we can. I think the simple fact most Christians live as moms and dads, engineers and teachers, nurses and doctors - just normal lives - reveals they don’t believe in eternal hell.

Or we’re all just incredibly callous.