The Sword and Laser discussion

I had some labouring to do in the garden, so listened to this from Audible.

Is it me, or does it feel that it is set in the UK? Feels like the narrator should have been British/English.

Certainly there are aspects that make me feel this way. The trains and some of the use of language. "Git" being particularly British term.

I could easily see the island existing off the south coast of England.

I was picturing Canada, but it’s kinda nonspecific, so I suspect most places would fit the bill.

Trike wrote: "I was picturing Canada, but it’s kinda nonspecific, so I suspect most places would fit the bill."

You are right, with the non-specific nature, we get to put it into our own frame of reference.
I can easily picture the commuter trains and small village life.

Some of the spoken phrases did have a more anglo-centric feel to me. How widely used is "git" as a term in North America? Cannot remember the exact line, but the character could be UK ex-pat too.

It does feel British, but has some distinctly North American features. Like Bellhop for a doorman/porter.

I'd say Canada sounds reasonable as a mix of British and American.

The author lives in Oregon, which might be a factor in the flavor.

Anything that's even adjacent to boarding schools makes me think of the UK, so that's where I pictured it. Especially with the main character using public transportation and taking the train to the beach - that sort of rules out the contemporary USA, but maybe it's a little historical. Linus and Arthur dress pretty formally too, as I recall, which fits with either the UK, or the early 60's, or just being really twee (which fits with some parts of Oregon). In my head at least Arthur had an English accent.

I finally decided that it's in a different world with aspects of both British and American culture.

The over-the-top bureaucracy seems British-ish, apologies if that's a negative stereotype. And there's subtle Pratchett influence. But other than that, it's quite non-specific and seems to take place in a made-up country that just happens to be Anglophonic.

Seth wrote: "Especially with the main character using public transportation and taking the train to the beach - that sort of rules out the contemporary USA, but maybe it's a little historical."

It definitely does feel historical. Today there are a few US cities where you can take the train to the beach — Boston, NYC, Seattle, LA, even Chicago — but you have to already be in those cities. Coming from farther away is nearly impossible. I suppose you could do it from Philly or Oakland, maybe outside Baltimore... and that’s about it.

I don’t recall ever seeing any type of train-to-shore in Texas or Florida, or even the Carolinas, places that would be well-served by such options.

Speaking as an actual real live Brit, it didn't feel especially British to me, tbh, other than a very slightly Hogwarts-y vibe (but even that felt like an American's take on a Hogwarts-y vibe). The setting just felt kind of non-specific old-fashioned. I think it was deliberately left a bit vague.

Catherine wrote: "The over-the-top bureaucracy seems British-ish, apologies if that's a negative stereotype. And there's subtle Pratchett influence. But other than that, it's quite non-specific and seems to take pla..."

There were a spate of films in the 90s which had that feeling of being neither here nor there, because they would do things like film in New Zealand with American actors and drive on the right side of the road (The Frighteners) or England (The Borrowers) or Australia (The Matrix) or France (The City of Lost Children), or in entirely artificial locations, such as Edward Scissorhands, Dark City, The Crow, etc.

It was as if place weren’t important, but things always felt a little off-kilter because the road markings were different or the signs were an odd color. I sort of get that vibe from this book.

It felt UK adjacent to me, but that's partly because I got strong Good Omens vibes from it, to the point that Linus and Arthur were head cast with Michael Sheen and David Tenant reprising their Good Omens roles. I rarely head cast a novel this strongly. However because of that connection, I couldn't not set it in a UK-like world. I don't think it's exactly earth UK (I mean, if the magical creatures don't give that away) but a UK like place on another world.

Melani wrote: "It felt UK adjacent to me, but that's partly because I got strong Good Omens vibes from it, to the point that Linus and Arthur were head cast with Michael Sheen and David Tenant reprising their Goo..."

My head casting was exactly the same. Michael Sheen as Linus was almost instantaneous in in my head while reading. My brain cycled through a couple of options for Arthur, but Tennant just felt right in the end because of their chemistry in Good Omens.

I'd agree that it felt UK adjacent, as others are saying. It felt purposefully vague, a little old-timey, with a sense that this story could be almost anywhere, anytime.

Hah I 100% thought the gray town was London and that this was in the UK. I could have sworn as much but clearly that was my interpretation.

I would say that this was pre-mobile phone era. 80's sort of period. The lack of mention of computers and mobiles.

The setting being in London, or at least a heavily industrial city for the greyness.
The small town-ness of the town reminded of people you would see in Midsomer Murders. I could hear/see the characters in the town from countless series on ITV or BBC. Also from conversations in pubs at various locations. e.g. country pubs in Suffolk, drinking with my dad.
I guess it can be Canada or somewhere, but then I do not know about the commuter situation is like in the states. I always have the impression it is more car related.
But there are anomalies that people have mentioned. "Bellhop" is one. Another is the old lady on the porch, that is not really a British thing either. If she was twitching the net curtain and stepping out to confront/talk then that would be more accurate.

Gordon wrote: "I would say that this was pre-mobile phone era. 80's sort of period. The lack of mention of computers and mobiles.


I remember plenty of mention of computers, here's two I found:

(view spoiler)[ At the start of the book in chapter two, there's talk about the 'clacking of computer keys' and more mentions of computers as a common occurrence in the office. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[ When Sal shows Linus his typewriter, he explains to him that he doesn't have a computer because 'the light hurts my eyes' (hide spoiler)]

There's also talk of a 'computer' as an autopilot of some boat somewhere, but I'm not familiar enough with boats to date that.

It's true that there's no mention of mobile phones. So maybe late 90's or early 00's, but hard to tell. It seems to me like a deliberate choice not to include much technology, just as is the ambiguous, non-defined location.

This reminds me of a similar feeling I had when reading A Series of Unfortunate Events, which always made me wonder where that's supposed to be and also has that timeless quality to it.

I assumed the UK because it's not that easy to hop on a train in the US at least, and it's more of a statement for Linus not to have seen the ocean from anywhere in the UK whereas in a larger country it's more typical.

Plus the Ministry of Magic errrr Department in Charge of Magical Youth felt very British to me, and the parallels with Good Omens, also very British.

Sprites are Celtic so that's another UK vote, gnomes moved from Germany to the UK.

And to me, the feeling of Linus just feels very British, maybe in the way he feels like he would wear brown a lot and his suitcase is brown....

Daniel wrote: "Gordon wrote: "I would say that this was pre-mobile phone era. 80's sort of period. The lack of mention of computers and mobiles.


I remember plenty of mention of computers, here's two I found:

[..."

It also mentions LInus' mousepad with "Don't you wish you were here?" printed on it.

There is also mention of the credit card machine that has a handle to take the impression. That's definitely pre 2K.

This thread is fascinating, because for some reason I assumed that the book is set in the UK, but I couldn't for the life of me explain why. It just felt like it.

Maybe worth to mention that I live in Germany and have never actually lived in either the US or UK (though I have spent some time in both countries on several occasions).

I wonder if the red bus on the cover makes people think that. I hadn't really noticed it until Tom mentioned it on the podcast.

I'm with Ruth that, being English, it didn't seem particularly English to me, though perhaps the world is built in that American idea of Britishness that we wouldn't recognise.

It's kind of like the way my accent sounded 'American' to my family after I'd spent a long time in the company of American's, but they still thought I sounded very 'British'. We pick up more on differences than similarities (kind of a theme of the book, thinking about it).

Though it was obviously not a close representation, the setting felt American to me.

I think it was the gloomy, rainy setting of Linus' city that makes people think England.

Which is not a slight on England. I like rain. I live in a town where it rains 260+ days a year and we get close to 3 metres (9.8 feet) of rain a year. (Not all Oz is hot and dry 😉 )

I guess Linus could be in Seattle or New England or a Canadian city.

Tassie Dave wrote: "I think it was the gloomy, rainy setting of Linus' city that makes people think England.

Which is not a slight on England. I like rain. I live in a town where it rains 260+ days a year and we get ..."

Good lord. I’m not given to SAD but that would be depressing. Where I live is one of the sunniest places in the country, with 320+ days of sunshine every year. (Don’t tell anyone, it’s a secret.)

Tassie Dave wrote: "Which is not a slight on England. I like rain. I live in a town where it rains 260+ days a year and we get close to 3 metres (9.8 feet) of rain a year. (Not all Oz is hot and dry 😉 )"

That’s why it’s a part of Australia I’d like to visit. There are other parts, but I’m not sure how well I’d handle the dry. I like the sun, but I’m used to a little more humidity with it.

Trike, to me, that sounds a little depressing. I love the sun, but I like a little more variety in my weather.

Back to the book, my rainy England is one reason I couldn’t see the story being set here. I know there are places and times where it would, in reality, fit, (I google imaged to make sure, and yep) but I cannot associate the word cerulean with our sea. Grey. Our sea is grey. No evidence, including my own eyes, can convince me otherwise. Now if the book were called The House in the Grey Sea, I’d agree with you all!

Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "I wonder if the red bus on the cover makes people think that. I hadn't really noticed it until Tom mentioned it on the podcast.

I'm with Ruth that, being English, it didn't seem particularly Engli..."

Well and it looks like a double decker bus but I think it’s actually a van.

Another two reasons it’s UK for me - How do you pronounce DICHOMY? The audiobook narrator puts the emphasis on the first syllable, which is reminiscent of some of the Harry Potter plant names and such.

And they quote the Statue of Liberty poem but not in that context!

As I read I pictured it in England, or a UK type of country. I could totally see Canada too.

Let me second, or third, the "as a Brit it doesn't feel like it is set in Britain" vote.

The clincher for me was the train journey that Linus takes at the start - only in a seriously big country could you travel on a train all day and only then reach the coast which is at the end of the line.

There is literally nowhere that is possible in the UK - we are a thin narrow island with a huge railway network and an equally outsized opinion of ourselves. ;-)

For me it feels like it is set somewhere in an alternative universe English speaking North America

John wrote: "Let me second, or third, the "as a Brit it doesn't feel like it is set in Britain" vote.

The clincher for me was the train journey that Linus takes at the start - only in a seriously big country c..."

The one exception I've experienced is the trip to Oban, where only one train goes that far and at each stop the conductor would let people get off and smoke, and fewer and fewer people would be on the train as it went.

Jenny (Reading Envy) wrote: The one exception I've experienced is the trip to Oban, where only one train goes that far and at each stop the conductor would let people get off and smoke, and fewer and fewer people would be on the train as it went.

Scotland is a foreign country and they do things differently there!

Even more so than America and England, the Scots and the English are separated by a common language.

( I am allowed to say things like that as one of my recent ancestors was Scottish ;-) )

John wrote: "Scotland is a foreign country and they do things differently there!

Even more so than America and England, the Scots and the English are separated by a common language."

I *am* a Scottish Lord, you know, so let’s tread carefully here, laddie.

Trike wrote: "I *am* a Scottish Lord, you know, so let’s tread carefully here, laddie.."

You, probably, think you own land on the moon and have a Star named after you as well 😉

Unless you are, actually, a "real" Scottish Lord 😜

I am a real Scottish Lord. No foolin’.

Trike wrote: "I am a real Scottish Lord. No foolin’."



The believe the word you are looking for is not "Lord", but rather is "Laird". :-)

I'm going to make the wild assertion that Trike bought one of those "square foot of land" deals that came with a title.

John (Taloni) wrote: "I'm going to make the wild assertion that Trike bought one of those "square foot of land" deals that came with a title."

No, I did not.

...my wife bought it for me.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Trike wrote: "...my wife bought it for me."

They're a fun present for a laugh, but legally not worth the paper they're printed on.

I'm not poo-pooing the gift. They are a fun gift and make a great talking point that is worth the small cost.

https://thetouchback.com/are-establis...

I put these in the same camp as buying land on the moon (you can't), buying a Star and naming it (you can't), buying your family Coat of Arms (your family doesn't have a Coat of Arms unless it has been passed down for centuries from the original person that earned it.)