Nolyn: Book 1 of the Rise and Fall Trilogy discussion

What do you think after reading this chapter?

Turin is there for the pivotal world changing events but it is good to see him helping with the small things as well. I hope that when Arvis has her bread retuned she can regain some sanity as well.

What an immensely satisfying read! Although I feel a little trepidation for the events of the next two books!

wow! What an awesome ride. Looking forward to the next.

the imminent return of Alina to Arvis (following what seemed to be a theme of forgiveness and redemption in this book), which was just beautiful. On the whole, it was a great read. Having read it all the way through, my insight into newcomer vs veteran has changed. I think there are plenty of details given throughout the story to make it enjoyable for a newcomer as a standalone. I was hesitant at first because they trickled in and I was reviewing one chapter at a time. But it was well done, rather than spending a few chapters retelling back story at the beginning. It also makes the tension of the story completely different for a newcomer. Oh no! Who is that hooded man? What's the deal with the guy with all the swords who can fight so well? Who is that creepy guy who can talk in people's heads, how is he doing that, and why doesn't anyone know about him? Why is the bow such a big deal? Etc. They're mysteries that the beginner has the joy of finding out for the first time, like we did in Legends, and if you didn't know those things, it would have made for added excitement at certain plot points, even if you missed the excitement of the Easter Eggs. I do still think that the story has more depth if you've read Legends first. There is just too much back story to tell that adds to this relatively short, self contained novel. If you have read Legends, this reads like a sequel, and all of the effort put into building the characters and stories we loved from that series gets to blossom further. There are little things, like who Gifford was, which is only mentioned briefly, but as part of the moral code of the Teshlor Nights, or bigger things, like the reality of the afterlife Tekchin has seen and what Sephryn has truly lost, or who Malcolm really is and why he is trying to right his wrongs. But knowing the background of the characters, their world, gods, and culture adds more depth than any writer could squeeze into the pages of just this book, which I'm saying as a compliment. This was a beautiful bridge between Legends and Riyria that makes them essential reading for anyone who enjoyed this novel. Either way, I think it's a story with fantastic characters and a driving plot. The settings were described well enough that I could feel myself there (and I was ready to get out of the jungle!) with great little details that made the varied peoples and their cultures spring to life. The generous sprinkling of humor has always been one of my favorite parts of MJS books, and it kept my smiling again here. And I appreciated the simple universal truths about life that snuck their way into a fantasy novel. Thanks for another great journey. Looking forward to the next one!

I loved the ending, but while I was reading, a thought popped into my head. What with the constant unseen battles between Turin and Trilos, are you going to do a book that focuses on the Golrok? (I won't give any spoilers as to what that is)
Also, if you do, what time period would it be in?

I'm feeling sort of anxious about Tekchin's whereabouts at the very end of the book, I'm not completely buying that the Teshlors were keeping him busy.

Courtni wrote: "I'm feeling sort of anxious about Tekchin's whereabouts at the very end of the book, I'm not completely buying that the Teshlors were keeping him busy."
I'm curious where you got that the Teshlors were keeping him busy? That was all Malcolm. The Teshlors had nothing to do with that.

I was saddened to discover that Moya became an alcoholic, but alcoholism seems a fairly common way to cope with PTSD and even the emotional crash after enormous events. Her interactions with Sephryn seemed realistic and appropriate, however. A parent caught in and aware of their own vices will often sternly discipline their children in a hope the child will be less like they are. Even the best-intended parents will, from time to time, push their children to do better than they have. Moya grieves the loss of her friends. In a way, Moya reminds me of Buzz Aldrin. After landing on the moon, doing a speaking tour around the world, and retiring from NASA he struggled to figure out what he was going to do next. Alcohol became a constant companion.
It also seems apparent that the contrast to Tekchin was deliberate, meant to endear us to him. Of the Galantians, I think I liked him best. Steady, constant, loving. A life of character well-lived won't erase years of bloodshed and brutality, but it is how he will be remembered by his neighbors.
Earlier I suspected that Trilos would later become the being we encounter in Death of Dulgath, but now I posit that it'll be Sephryn.

Jeremy is the being from Dulgath you are talking about Lady Dulgath?

Matthew, I think so. It's been a while since I read Death of Dulgath so I can't say for sure

Hey Jeremy and Matt, Michael actually revealed something about that for the Age of Death goodreads group.

The spirit or persona residing in Lady Dulgath is in deed a Fhrey but one who can’t pass on, can’t go to Pyre. And who has a good soul.

That is about a close as you can get without saying a name.

Rex wrote: "The spirit or persona residing in Lady Dulgath is in deed a Fhrey but one who can’t pass on, can’t go to Pyre. And who has a good soul."

I was so excited when I caught that reference right at the end of...was it Age of Death?

My heart was broken with the loss of the budding relationship between Nolyn and his father. I was really looking forwards to seeing that grow and all the redemption that would follow. At the same time, I was delighted to see the love and affection between Sephryn and Tekchin, after seeing all other Frey have such cold and casual relationships with their children. I was surprised that “you know who” was so integral to this part of the story. I assumed he would go underground until the time of Riyria. I hate him so much. This book was wonderful and so much fun to read...but as always, too short and the time between this and the next will feel like a millennium. I will definitely re-read the Legends series before the next one! I don’t remember who Farilane is!

Matthew wrote: "That is about a close as you can get without saying a name."
Well can't just give it away now can we?

Heather wrote: "Rex wrote: "The spirit or persona residing in Lady Dulgath is in deed a Fhrey but one who can’t pass on, can’t go to Pyre. And who has a good soul."

I was so excited when I caught that reference r..."

I do believe you are correct.

I can’t say for sure since I have read the Legends of the First Empire, but I seriously doubt that this would be a good entry point into Elan. There’s just way too much crossover and background information that you need to really enjoy Nolyn.

Another thing... How is it that they think they can hide the secret of Nyphron’s ***** from the rest of the Fhrey? I might have missed something. Is there really no crossover of the population? And I also don’t think any Fhrey would forget about the horn since it’s ingrained in their culture and probably most of them have heard it been blown since its only been 800 years.

Kevin wrote: "I can’t say for sure since I have read the Legends of the First Empire, but I seriously doubt that this would be a good entry point into Elan. There’s just way too much crossover and background inf..."

A person who hasn't read LotFE can enjoy Nolyn, but it will almost certainly leave them wanting to know more. There are just so many references to historical figures and events that it's clear this world has more depth than what is presented in this story, but Nolyn does stand up on its own as a brief window into Elan's history.

For a serious reader who already enjoys fantasy, I completely agree that the suggested reading order should be LotFE first and then Nolyn. However, for someone who just wants to dip their toes in the water to see if they'll enjoy the writing style, the world and characters, etc., then starting with Nolyn would be a reasonable option. If nothing else, it's much less of a commitment than a 6 book series, and that can be a major selling point for readers who haven't yet realized they're about to become fans of Michael J. Sullivan.

What a great journey and ending! I completely agree with Robin’s saying in the afterword about the take-off and the landing - he definitely nailed that again! So thankful for her support to making this magic available for us!

As read in a comment before, I’m also a bit concerned about Tekchin’s whereabouts. And also a bit wondering why nobody is talking about the one evil person who was behind all this? Shouldn’t the whole palace be searching for him since they found out? But I’m sure there will be a reason as it always turns out in Michael’s books :-)

I also thought long about the discussion about the best reading order for myself and after finishing Nolyn I’m absolutely sure that there is no order better than another - its just a different experience. In my view every series is giving away enough insights to follow as a stand alone and is full of special moments or Easter eggs for continuous readers. No matter which one is your second series, you will always find those very special passages that make you feel “knowing” or finally understanding - at least you think so for a while ;-)

In my eyes that’s the true masterpiece of the complete Elan series and makes Michael’s work so special for me: You get rewarded with different experiences and emotions by re-reading and re-reading again :-)

As I read the book I knew that with the appearance of the Orinfar, Mawyndulë, and the mentioning of the 5 gods that Malcolm would make an appearance somewhere in the book. And when he did it was good to see that he was NOT capable of waving his hand and POOF everything is right with the world!!! And I know Michael doesn't write like that! It was just good to see that is not the way it went. And it does create some high intrigue for the future to know that his demon brother sleazed away!!!
Maybe it's just me and my guessing but I think this mentioning of Nolyn and Sephryn's dislike of the current castle is what is called an Easter egg for those that have yet to read any of the Riyria series. I think it has to do with the mystery of the location of Percepliquis. And I'm thinking in the following books we are going to find out what happens to Percepliquis which has been on my mind!!!!
In closing, I will be re-reading a couple of the Riyria novels and I absolutely LOVED the book. The only question I have is could you tell me the date of the next KICKSTARTER!!!! LMAO

Absolutely great. I enjoyed the ride and the easter eggs. I can't wait to read the rest of the series but for now I will settle for a reread of Percepliquis

I just finished reading Nolyn! I probably would have finished it earlier, but I kept going back to the Legends and Riyria books and rereading scenes and searching for tidbits of information. I love all the Easter eggs!

The wine Nyphron was drinking, I'm assuming was Royce's favorite, Montemorcey.

I always liked Tekchin. I'm glad that he and Sephryn have a good relationship.

I'm very concerned about Noyln's feelings to Nurgya. "I don't feel like a father." "Have I inherited my father's indifference?"

I'm really looking forward to reading Farilane! As she was mentioned as a noted historian in the Riyria books, I'm hoping she found the Book of Brin that Trilos took. Also I'm hoping we discover what happened to Bran after went into the far east searching for the Book of Brin.

Just finished Nolyn today and was very impressed. It is a strong story and enhances Legends as well as Ryria greatly.

The reading order i suggest to be varies slightly based on if they like fantasy or medieval more but usually it goes.

Revelations> Chronicle 1 > Legends 1-3 > Chronicle 2 >Legends 4-6> Chronicle 3* and 4> Nolyn

*I feel like like knowing the full story of Legends greatly enhances Death of Dulgath

I know Michael doesn't agree and it is not the way I first was introduced to Michael’s work but I'm old fashion and like to read my stories chronologically. I would strongly recommend a reading order of Legends 1-6, Nolyn, and insert here Farilane and Esahaddon once finished. Then the Riyria Chronicles and finally Riyria Revelations. But don’t hold off reading Chronicles and Revelations just because Farilane and Esahaddon aren’t out yet, just re-read them again afterward.

Rex, I'm old-fashioned that way myself!