Debate discussion

What do you think about torture. Please do NOT post until you have read up a little *On both sides of the topic*!!!

I don't like people giving opinions without any factual basis. It creates arguments, and there is a big difference between argument and debate.

This is one of my papers from a few months ago. :/

It has a few facts and states my opinion on the subject.

“DETAINEES; OFFICER SUGGESTS IRAQI JAIL ABUSE WAS ENCOURAGED”, “PUNISHMENT; ARMY PUNISHES 7 WITH REPRIMANDS FOR PRISON ABUSE”, “INMATE; Iraqi Recounts Hours of Abuse By U.S. Troops”. This may be what you have been reading in your local paper, hearing on the radio, or viewing on your television recently. I have, and when I did, I was curious. I wanted to know more. I wanted to know if there was an excuse, or a reason for the treatment that the inmates received, and if there was, I wanted to know if it was a valid one. My first thought was that if torturing and abusing prisoners worked, the ends would justify the means; if ruining one life could save hundreds, thousands or even millions, it would be perfectly acceptable. If outcomes like the September 11th bombings could be prevented, then torture would be acceptable. If not, I don’t see any reason to abuse or torture prisoners of war.
My first step in gathering information was to find some of the pros and cons of torture. The Center for Victims of Torture (CVT) says that torture does not work. Yet humans have been torturing other humans for centuries. Torture is even mentioned in the Bible. If it didn’t work, why would it still be used? Many say it is used to get quick answers. People want somebody to blame and they don’t care who it is. Many people say that terrorists deserve to be tortured. This sentiment ran high in America after 9-11.
However, there are plenty of cons to torture and abuse. Highly trained interrogators in the FBI, military, and police forces say that non-torture methods are just as effective, if not more so. They also say torture yields false information. The CVT says that nearly every client within its organization confessed to crimes they did not commit, gave false information, or supplied names of innocent people. Imagine yourself in their position. In immense physical and psychological pain, what would you say to get your tormentors to stop hurting you? You might think that you would never supply false information about friends, co-workers or neighbors; I’m sure they didn’t think they would either. Also, what if the person being questioned was innocent? Torture is not exclusively for the guilty. The Red Cross estimates that 80 percent of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib, were innocent, and shouldn’t have been arrested. People fear letting a terrorist go free, more than protecting the innocent.
Besides the fact that torture yields little to no accurate results, it is also morally wrong; it violates human rights, and breaches international laws. The United States is a country that should be looked up to, not frowned upon by others in the global community. America’s image is already tarnished, and using torture as a method of gathering information, does not support a better image. The United States has preached human rights, and if we don’t take our own advice, why should anybody else? If we don’t take our own advice, we look like hypocrites. So, America, I am calling on you to help support the fair treatment of prisoners of war. Write to local senators, sign petitions, or do anything else you can think of to support this cause. Petitions can be found on anti-torture sites, such as The Center for Victims of Torture, which is where I got a lot of my information.

In conclusion, because torturing prisoners of war is not an effective way of gathering reliable information, and violates international laws, there is no reason for any nation—especially America—to use terror or physical violence. I think President Barack Obama said it best in his Congressional address, February 24, 2009:
“To overcome extremism, we must also be vigilant in upholding the values our troops defend… Because living our values doesn't make us weaker, it makes us safer and it makes us stronger. And that is why I can stand here tonight and say without exception or equivocation that the United States of America does not torture.”

let me ask you this question what kind of torture or what is your definition of toture?

I guess that my definition of torture is creating pain or uncomfortableness, to gain information?

You can torture someone for fun.

uncomfortableness? lol

Torture. My all-time worst nightmare.

I guess it's causing another being pain for personal gain. Information, revenge, pleasure...

Woah, it must be really bad then.

Nathan wrote: "You know what real torture is? Reading some of the posts from the real idiots in this group. I feel violated every time. "

We're not idiots....some of us just....yeah there are idiots. I just had to say it.

Nathan wrote: "You know what real torture is? Reading some of the posts from the real idiots in this group. I feel violated every time. "

WOW, you are like a sissy girl

I like the work 'voilate'. It's like violet and viola. It's such a pretty word for somthing not so pretty. Hmm.

LMAO

wow, that hurts LOL

if you these remarks violate your innerself then you do not belong in this group

at least i was one of the idiots haha, whatever

He was kidding, about the violation...I think...

yeah right, he is so paranoid and sensitive

Well, even if he is (which I highly doubt), that's alright, isn't it? Do you have something against paranoid, sensitive people?

nothing... why would u say that?

actually torture is fun

I say it because...oh I don't know why I'm bothering. Petty argumants and weak, ill-based insults irritate me. They're pointless and immature.

I'm tired.

so be tired, i dont give two frogs about your feelings

See?? You are so...irritating!! You just...type shit to type shit!

I was EXCUSING myself from the conversation, apparently with a brick wall.

Guys, we should really stop with the insults to each other. They're completely uncalled for and just turn into something like World War III except it's over the internet. Besides, it pisses other people off and may hurt other people's feelings......

alright look i didnt mean to make you angry and i am sorry for immature typing, can you forgive me?

Nathan wrote: "Tell me about it. I just don't know why people would want to insult one another."

look who is talking

Are you being honest or sarcastic Nathan? It's hard to tell from a computer.

you insulted me way to many times and yet you act like this, why people should insult one another, Please your the architect of insulting people and now you gotta turn around and say it like you didnt do anything wrong??? who are you kidding??

Oh my god, Gene. He WAS kidding. Moron.

I think we should just try to keep the peace you know? Make it a nice, intelligent environment to debate in :)

fine then u fucking moron

Really Gene, there's no need to curse.

I'd read this but I REALLY don't care.

Are we actually talking about torture?

Nathan, you've proved your wit at least twice in the last page alone, is it possible you could apply it better though?

Who decides what is better and what isn't, when it's all subjective anyway.

actually torture is fun

Oh, is it? You've been tortured and you enjoy it?

Well, if you're into that sort of thing.

Bondage much?

LOLZ

Nathan wrote: "You know what real torture is? Reading some of the posts from the real idiots in this group. I feel violated every time. "

All youve done in ALL the posts Ive seen of yours is INSULT people...what part of the RULES in the introduction about NOT INSULTING people dont you get? Your real clever aren't you! Seems to me that on that basis your posts should be ignored...

Go fuck yourself = value argument

oooooohh i get it lol

boy was I misinformed

You know it is pathetic when people who agree with your argument get angered by your posts....

Liz, are you Conservative?

do you know whats pathetic, people trawling through posts to find grammatical mistakes, if you can understand it, why bother??
and now someones going to pipe in with a gramatikal erore that i huve maude int dis post

No grammatical errors, just a thick accent. ;)

This could have developed into a fascinating debate but due to the presence of ad hominem, vitriol and more than just a smattering of profanity it is of little value.

Defining a term is an important part of debate for it clearly defines the parameters of the matter under consideration. One poster defined torture as:

"I guess that my definition of torture is creating pain or uncomfortableness, to gain information?"

So torture is pain or discomfort for the purposes of gaining information to this poster. Standard definitions of the term include:

1. Anguish of body or mind: agony.
2. Something that causes agony or pain.
3. The infliction of pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure.
3. Distorition or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument: straining.

The definition provided by MATT∞ appears to correspond to #2. However, is it ethicallly or morally questionable to torture a masochist? Is it ethically or morally questionable to employ torture to procure a greater good? What constitutes "agony" or "pain?" Should "agony" and/or "pain" be considered synonymous with fear?

What if I locked you in a darkened room and you suffered the complete absence of light and companionship for 20 years? You are well fed, provided with all the necessities of life but you are deprived of light and companionship. Is this torure? Are you being subjected to "pain" or "agony?" If such were used as a vehichle to coerce from you information would that make a difference?

When does coersion become torture?

OMG torture- so cool. Actually its a VERY sad, depressing subject but other then that- wow.
There are so many types of torture out there.
Theres the orginally
- i'll cut a limg off everytime you don't give me an answer
- the chinese form of a constant drop of water on your ehad
- the detenction centres ABBA fanile (don't ask- turned the poor guys mad)
etc.

There's so many types and it depends on how you use them and to who.
And, as much as people can disagree- TORTURE is part of this world, people DO do it.
Sorry if i burst you bubble of torture innocences but you never know.
TOmorrow guys in black might be knocking on YOUR door asking your fathers where abouts... or even your mothers and then... well. lets just say, they don't take a 'piss off' lightly.

oh, and sorry for all the spelling mistakes

Instead of being sorry, just fix them. :)

.... hmmmm... maybe later

In my religion i dont believe harming anything is acceptable. I believe in love, kidness, and truth. I do not pyhsically, mentally, or verbally harm any living thing. Torture is just another way of feeling power, it may get you what you want sometimes, but at what price? I dont believe any type of torture is acceptable.