The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Our setting moves to the school where Herbert Pembroke works. He would like to become a House Master, but isn't married so hasn't much chance of getting the position.
His solution: Agnes marries Rickie, Rickie teaches at the school and Herbert gets the position.

The section also deals with school politics, the various teachers and their teaching ability and the goals of the school.
How does the school treat the Day School students as opposed to the boarders?
Is Rickie a successful teacher?
How is he treated by Herbert and Agnes?
Does Rickie have a backbone?

What is your overall impression of the school, including the bullying incident?

Agnes has a child with disastrous consequences.
Any comments on that and on their marriage?

How does Agnes treat Stephen? And pretty well anyone else that stands in her way?

Can you tell that I can't stand Herbert or Agnes?

Oh, boy. Herbert and Agnes are horrible snobs. Besides her looks, what did Rickie find to fall in love with? Is it that she was one of the only pretty women he knew well, and perhaps a bit like his mother?

I also wondered why he decided to marry after he had determined not to have children. Forster was also abrupt in discussing the child's death.

I have a hard time sympathizing with Rickie when he doesn't even have enough self-respect to stand up for himself and what's right (Herbert is obviously in the wrong with regard to Jackson and the school), but I did feel sorry for him when he learned about his mother.

Ansell was out of line for announcing the Elliots' private business to the whole school, but it was fun imagining Herbert and Agnes squirm.

I agree, it was fun watching those two squirm.
I hope Rickie finds a way to separate himself from those two. He had very little life experience before he got married, and since his marriage most of it was bad. But I can't really feel all that sorry for him, since he's so easily influenced, often by the wrong people.

Rosemarie wrote: "I agree, it was fun watching those two squirm.
I hope Rickie finds a way to separate himself from those two. He had very little life experience before he got married, and since his marriage most of..."

Unless I'm missing something about Mr. Jackson (I think I might be - I didn't understand the "buffoon" comment), it seems like he and Rickie might have been great friends and allies if it weren't for the Pembrokes.

The Pembrokes were very possessive.
I got the impression that Jackson was the only good teacher at that school.

Oh I hated the Pembrokes. Ansell's open anouncement was just punishment for their snobbery. It's mean to say this, but I enjoyed their humiliation!

You're not the only one, Piyangie. They were asking for it.

Once again, we have pages of the mundane suddenly interrupted by a dramatic crisis. Something about Stephen is definitely “off”. It doesn’t seem normal to start a physical fight with a stranger for no reason. And why is Ansell so cruel to Rickie? Was he jealous that Rickie in a way left him for Agnes?

I got the impression that Rickie was being absorbed by the Pembrokes. His teaching method was a give away, as I see it. Instead of improving as a teacher he became mean and a stickler for rules. He seemed to forget what it was like to be bullied in the situation with that unfortunate boy.
Ansell wanted to shock him into awareness, before it was too late for Rickie to change.

- Herbert and Agnes are, as Lori says, "horrible snobs" although she needn't have added the word snobs.
- Rickie, our supposed hero, might have some positive qualities but is so weak-willed, seemingly without standards and as Rosemarie says, is being absorbed by the horrible Pembrokes;
- Ansell is arrogant, manipulative and bullyish, reminding me of the TV character House, an episode of which is playing on the TV while I type;
- Aunt Emily is domineering, a female Ansell;
- Agnes, before getting with Rickie, loved a bully;
- Stephen, while having potential for sympathy, is overly physical and boorish;

Now for the good characters I do like:

Seriously, though, perhaps one sympathizes with the Jacksons and Stephen. As for Rickie, I tell myself that this still has time to be a bildungsroman and maybe Rickie will actually "grow" in our last section. However, I can't say that he was ever really that sympathetic even before getting overly entwined with the Pembrokes. I blame him for him, not them.
This is not a bad read, but the plot is meh, there is something murky about the dialogue and I never really fully understand the attitudes. None of these folks are people I can relate to.

This book seems the least focussed of Forster's books.
I've read most of them once and a couple twice, and my favourite is Maurice followed closely by A Room with a View.

Forster's writing style made this book bearable for me, since there are a number of insufferable characters.

Rosemarie, you have often talked positively about Maurice. As that has convinced me to read Maurice, I chose to read this one too so I could say I've read all 6 of Forster's novels after I do read Maurice.
Similarly, after reading Charlotte's Shirley this summer, I will have read all 7 Bronte novels. Though I love him far more than Forster or any Bronte, I won't try the same with Trollope.

Unless we can miraculously live an extra fifty years, I won't be reading all of Trollope's work either-but I have made a good start so far.

I agree that this book is unfocused. We never really get inside one character's mind for any period of time. It's hard to imagine an editor approving this, but if Forster was already well known, I guess he could write what he wanted.

It's really not up to his standard.

Rosemarie wrote: "This book seems the least focussed of Forster's books.
I've read most of them once and a couple twice, and my favourite is Maurice followed closely by A Room with a View.

..."

My favourite Forster is A Room with a View. I haven't read Maurice yet, but will, later in the year.