Science Fiction & Philosophy discussion

There was a time when this question would have been purely hypothetical. Scientific advances have changed the course of the discussion in the recent years, though.

Senolytics (medications that eliminates ageing senescent cells) are in human trials. Beyond that, there is research into gene therapy , bioprinting and bionics.

I will leave aside the finer points of definitions: immortality cannot really be proven (to paraphrase a famous cartoon, it would take forever to do so); but an extreme extension of lifespan may be heading our way. I will also omit the debate around definition of humanity as it begins to augment living bodies with cybernetic implants.

I am interested in exploring the psychological and social effect of an extremely long life. Science fiction provides us with two schools of thought: the dystopia of extreme social stratification in 'Altered Carbon' versus a continuing accumulation of wisdom in the more utopian texts.

Does humanity need renewal and resetting of mental constructs that comes with each new generation?

Or would we take better care of our environments if we knew that we would have to live with the consequences?

Should we heed the philosophical points in the writings of Paulo Coelho who describes death as a faithful friend and a reminder to make better choices?

Ecologically, the sort of problems we currently face (the destruction of habitats and mass-extinction of species, pollution, resource depletion, global warming and all the rest) are not really problems at all, but symptoms of the problem—which is the obscene size of, and relentless increase in, our own numbers. Human immortality could be just about the last thing the planet needs—unless you matched a near-endless lifespan with a near-zero birth-rate (and how likely is the average human to go along with that?)

Psychologically, too, I'm wondering whether it's a good idea. For example, think of all the most inventive minds there have been—painters, writers, composers, scientists, mathematicians and philosophers—who did all their best work before the age of thirty. If we're to live, in effect, for ever, will it be as twenty-year-olds (or do we find some way of 'resetting our clocks' every so often as well) or will immortality bring an end to that level of creativity?

I agree that population numbers are central to the discussion. I am concerned that expanded lifespan at the expense of the new generations will result in a form of social and psychological decay.

Each new generation is born into normative social paradigms that are often quite different to that of their parents. They grow up with a different kind of normal as the world continues to change around them. That 'normal' becomes superseded by new ideas and social structures with the following generation, and so on. It is a kind of renewal that may not happen with extended lives.

Khira wrote: "I agree that population numbers are central to the discussion. I am concerned that expanded lifespan at the expense of the new generations will result in a form of social and psychological decay.
..."

I'm not so sure that we could come to those conclusions unequivocally. Even with the limited lifespans we have now, there are plenty of people who have no great dreams or plans for improving themselves or society at large. They sit on their sofas and eat Doritos while playing computer games or work for government.

Perhaps with more time then the dreams would become bigger, not smaller. People could take on projects like terraforming Mars or travelling to another star, the bottom of the ocean, or building magnificent public spaces. I don't think we could predict what would happen, but the limited lifespan does add something to spur us on.

If immortality was achieved with respect to ageing, it wouldn't stop accidental or other deaths. And I suspect the world would quickly become divided by the wealthy, who could afford it, and the rest of the population, who couldn't.

Would the underclass then rise up and kill the wealthy immortals who would retaliate by investing in greater protection, as in a good dystopian novel?

I was watching an interesting Netflix series called Love Death + Robots. There is an episode called "Pop Squad" that deals with this question in the most chilling of ways. I recommend watching it. Cheers!

Yes, I saw that one. Very poignant. It's one of my favourite shows for exploring alternative futures in sci fi.

Manuel wrote: "I was watching an interesting Netflix series called Love Death + Robots. There is an episode called "Pop Squad" that deals with this question in the most chilling of ways. I recommend watching it. ..."
Thanks Manuel, I'll take a look!

We are already seeing some issues. As people live longer they run out of money and need to work, which is blocking some younger people from securing positions that would have been opened. You could world build a gerontocracy where the young never have opportunities.

Howard wrote: "We are already seeing some issues. As people live longer they run out of money and need to work, which is blocking some younger people from securing positions that would have been opened. You could..."

I agree, that is a real concern and would lead to serious issues. I saw this article called 'Who wants to live forever?' with some interesting results on the demographic distribution in opinions on life extension. Their sample size is a bit small and unevenly distributed though (n=593 for young adults and n=46 for old adults), so I don't think that the findings can be viewed as definitive.

Thanks for sharing, I am fascinated by the different choices at different ages, and surprised most people would not choose to keep living.

It didn't really surprise me that some people wouldn't choose to live longer. To be honest, I don't think that I would, either. Having a healthy, strong body and mind for a greater percentage of the lifespan would be fantastic though.

Khira wrote: "It didn't really surprise me that some people wouldn't choose to live longer. To be honest, I don't think that I would, either. Having a healthy, strong body and mind for a greater percentage of th..."
There's a cool worldbuilding idea right there - tech that allows you to freeze your physiological state for some amount of time, either risk-free or there could be some potentially dangerous tradeoff.

There's a French TV series on Netflix called 'Ad Vitam' that is based on the idea that medical advances may allow humans to harness the same mechanisms for immortality that allow the Turritopsis dohrnii jellyfish to remain biologically immortal.

The series explores the relationships and paths for exploitation between different generations (amongst some other, fairly serious topics).

Khira wrote: "There's a French TV series on Netflix called 'Ad Vitam' "
Thanks for this - sounds fun and I also feel more sophisticated when I watch something with subtitles.

Medical advances may overcome the physiological problems, but what about the psychological ones—boredom in particular (one problem I’m guessing the immortal Turritopsis doesn’t face).

Actually, now that I come to think of it, being a jellyfish for ever doesn’t sound half bad: just drifting along on the current, then nodding off in the warm sun for a bit…stinging a few surfers just for fun…the yummy taste of zooplankton mixed with organic detritus when you’re really hungry…

Richard wrote: "what about the psychological ones—boredom in particular"
This is a common plot point but I don't get it. Just the TV shows on my to-watch list alone could occupy me another few decades. And I'm sure there is a lengthy German word that means Fear Of Dying Before The Last Book In A Series Is Released.