The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

I'm starting this thread for reading In the Heat of the Night: The Original Virgil Tibbs Novel. Feel free to join in any time, but please don't give away any spoilers. Thanks!

I am loving this so far! Initial impressions after 50pp:
-Writing is superb, very atmospheric! I could feel the heat of the night while reading (not a stretch since it's been brutal up here for June - a few 100 degree days.)
-The story seems somewhat different than the movie, though I can't remember the movie specifics. Even so, I can't stop picturing Poitier. as Tibbs. The police chief is 6'4" and 32, so Rod Steiger was a big departure.

I'm reading Christie's The Murder of Roger Ackroyd right now and it's amazing the similarities in the story even though in vastly different settings and timeframes. I can enumerate at some point.

Well, the first two chapters have served to remind me that despite the fact that there are no longer segregated waiting rooms or restrooms, not a lot has changed in terms of white-Southern racist attitudes in the last 56 years since this book was written. Sigh.

Yes, have been thinking the same . . . sadly.

I can hardly put this down. I have the last 50pp to go.
I think the choice to have much of the central dilemma of this story play out in the minds of Gillespie and Wood was brilliant. Gillespie, so volatile, and Wood, so thoughtful, still can't believe that a Negro is better than them even though the evidence is right there in front of them. Interesting that a couple of times they've said they wish he was white or he should have been born white showing just how hard it is to break through the barriers of prejudice.
The actual murder mystery does have me turning pages, but it's the dynamics between Tibbs, Gillespie and Wood that has hooked me.

I'm on Chapter 8, so about halfway through the novel. To add to what you said, Suzy, I found the character of Oberst interesting. Before Tibbs went to talk to him, Gillespie had described him to Tibbs as "poor white trash," yet it's obvious that Oberst still felt himself above Virgil while they were talking in Oberst's cell. It's interesting watching everyone sort of questioning what they've all been conditioned to believe all of their lives; not only that but as you've said, their sense of racial superiority seems to be inwardly undergoing a kind of reassessment.

"What do they call you around home where you come from?"
"They call me Mr. Tibbs."

So very, very good. I'm loving this novel.

I've finished this book, and I've come to the conclusion that the murder mystery is actually secondary to everything else going on here. What a wonderful novel!

What struck me when I read it was how much more patient and impassionate Tibbs is in the book compared to the film. And it was also interesting to me that Tibbs is the only character who doesn't really have an arc - he is pretty much the same at the end of the book as he is at the beginning. It felt as though Ball is pointing out that it is the racist attitudes that need to change, not African-Americans.

Agree with both. The murder mystery receded into the background to me behind the dynamics between the people. And the atmosphere! The heat was like another character. The murder mystery was still interesting, although I felt that the solve came somewhat out of the blue.

And Tibbs's arc is "get me the hell out of here!"

We got so much interiority of Sam Wood and Bill Gillespie, but nothing of what was going on in Virgil's mind. Amazing that he was steadily focused on figuring out the murder. I too remember him being much more intense in the movie, but truthfully, I don't remember much of the movie! My husband is going to read this and then we'll watch the movie.

I will add that earlier this year I read with another GR group the book Horseman, Pass By, Larry McMurtry's first novel which became the basis for the movie Hud. It was another book whose main character, Lonnie, is thinking a lot about what's going on, which is hard to represent in a movie. I feel the same about this book. The book has so much depth from getting inside the characters minds, which doesn't make for a dynamic movie.

In both cases the books are classics and the movies are classics, but in very different ways.

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "What struck me when I read it was how much more patient and impassionate Tibbs is in the book compared to the film. And it was also interesting to me that Tibbs is the only character who doesn't re..."

We watched the film last night, and I have to agree with you on the book Tibbs vs. the film Tibbs.

Suzy wrote: "Agree with both. The murder mystery receded into the background to me behind the dynamics between the people. And the atmosphere! The heat was like another character. The murder mystery was still i..."

"the solve came somewhat out of the blue" -- it's funny you say that, Suzy. When we were watching the film, my husband knew who the killer was long before I did while reading the novel.

Can't wait to see the movie again. I'm of the age that I actually saw it in the theater, late 1960's! Certainly I've seen it again since then?!!
This perhaps explains why I'm fuzzy on movie details. :)

Suzy wrote: "Can't wait to see the movie again. I'm of the age that I actually saw it in the theater, late 1960's! Certainly I've seen it again since then?!!
This perhaps explains why I'm fuzzy on movie detail..."

I saw it some time ago when I was on a Sidney Poitier binge, but I'd forgotten it. After I'd finished the novel yesterday I wondered how they were going to manage all of the internalizing done in the book. I won't spoil it for you.

Nancy wrote: "We watched the film last night, and I have to agree with you on the book Tibbs vs. the film Tibbs."

I'm sure the passion and outrage was necessary for film audiences to relate to the character. Poitier killed it; that's my favorite role of his.

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "Nancy wrote: "We watched the film last night, and I have to agree with you on the book Tibbs vs. the film Tibbs."

I'm sure the passion and outrage was necessary for film audiences to relate to the..."

I agree with that, absolutely.

John Ridley says in the first paragraph of his introduction to this book that timing is everything, mentioning the Selma to Montgomery marches, the Watts Riots, and Malcolm X's assassination the year that In the Heat of the Night was published. I was wondering how book reviewers in Southern newspapers would have handled this novel.

It would be interesting to know that. I saw an article recently that some major southern newspapers didn't even cover the civil rights movement, so perhaps didn't review it at all. Specifically, Birmingham, Alabama, but also others.

I also wanted to know what you thought of Ridley's assertion that the characters in ITHOTN were too black and white. I did feel in the last third of the book, Ball veered toward caricature, but then I felt for the time that he had to make it black and white to make his points about racism in the Jim Crow south.

I was just reading an article about that, Suzy; John Ridley's not the only one who feels that way. I get it, in terms of what the author's trying to accomplish here.

Here's the link to the article, with the pertinent paragraph following:

https://quillette.com/2021/04/27/reme...

"In the book Sticking It to The Man: Revolution and Counterculture in Pulp and Popular Fiction, 1950 to 1980, edited by Andrew Nette and Iain McIntyre, Tibbs is described as 'nonthreatening yet subversive in the ways an educated black man can be… Tibbs is, in the best 1960s-era liberal sense of the word, a credit to his race… a man acutely aware that he must excel not only in his police work… but in his moral probity too. To the point of being corny, the Tibbs books present him as the honorable standard bearer."

"To the point of being corny . . ."
The same could be said for Wood and Gillespie!
Looking forward to reading this article.

I’ve only read the first two or three chapters. It does seem a little black and white, where there’s an almost messianic view of Tibbs, although it’s probably appropriate for all the purposes the book is trying to accomplish.

It’s interesting when first meeting Tibbs, that it’s almost as if the author wrote the book thinking, “I want them to buy the rights to book and cast Sidney Poitier.” The description at least seems close to Poitier, although that brings up the points made already as to if it would be a positive or negative if he made Tibbs a cop, but appearance wise and diction different. There was even an article this week by Kareem Abdul Jabar that touches on a similar subject re: In the Heights.

Bruce wrote: "I’ve only read the first two or three chapters. It does seem a little black and white, where there’s an almost messianic view of Tibbs, although it’s probably appropriate for all the purposes the b..."

re "messianic" -- I can sort of see your point but I think it may be more that Tibbs (in the novel) knew what to expect from white people in a small Southern town (he was just coming back from a visit to his mother when he lands in Wells) and does what he does because he's above all of that. He certainly doesn't live up to their expectations, nor does he play into their hands.

By the way, Bruce, nice to have you join us!!

I've only read three chapters. I'm amazed that Tibbs keeps his cool with Gillepsie

Thank you, Nancy!

Bruce wrote: "Thank you, Nancy!"

No, Bruce, thank you!

Linda wrote: "I've only read three chapters. I'm amazed that Tibbs keeps his cool with Gillepsie"

Yes, that's what we're all amazed at.

Nancy wrote: "I was just reading an article about that, Suzy; John Ridley's not the only one who feels that way. I get it, in terms of what the author's trying to accomplish here.

Here's the link to the articl..."

Thanks for this article, Nancy! I especially appreciate the author's contrast of Poitier's performance of Tibbs in ITHOTN to his portrayal in They Call Me Mr. Tibbs . . . at the beginning of blaxplotation . . with the question of why the more Zen-like Tibbs couldn't stand side-by-side with movies like Shaft. I suppose the answer is Hollywood and the demands of the time.

Does anyone have interest in the follow-on books on Tibbs by Ball? I do, but as they say so many books too little time.

Interesting my library has two copies each of the 7 books in the series! It looks like all of them are copies from when originally published except for ITHOTN.

Kindle doesn't have the other novels

I looked into the other Tibbs novels but decided against them. I just don't see how they could reach the level of this one.

Nancy wrote: "I looked into the other Tibbs novels but decided against them. I just don't see how they could reach the level of this one."

I've got the second one. I'll let you know what I think when I get around to it.

I bought the second one from audible.

I may read the others after this, but I agree. Also, even though racism was still and is rampant in the south after segregation, I think the other Tibbs books were written after segregation ended. Not to mention, they probably take place in Pasadena.

Linda wrote: "I bought the second one from audible."

I hadn't thought to look there. I like the narrator!

Bruce wrote: "I may read the others after this, but I agree. Also, even though racism was still and is rampant in the south after segregation, I think the other Tibbs books were written after segregation ended. ..."

The article Nancy posted in message 19 explains a lot about the author and the other books.

Linda wrote: "Kindle doesn't have the other novels"

Linda, all of the Tibbs novels are definitely available on Kindle. When I had thought about going on in the series, I checked.

Bruce wrote: "I may read the others after this, but I agree. Also, even though racism was still and is rampant in the south after segregation, I think the other Tibbs books were written after segregation ended. ..."

It looks like a 20-year span in writing/publication times for the series. After ITHOTN, it's 1966 to 1986:

https://www.fantasticfiction.com/b/jo...

I checked kindle and there no tibbs novels. I even tried both authors names. There were exactly three novels by John Ball.

here you go: they're all listed here (scroll down)

https://www.amazon.com/Cool-Cottontai...

That's in the states Nancy. I live in Canada and can't get them.

Linda wrote: "That's in the states Nancy. I live in Canada and can't get them."

That's too bad. But on the plus side, you can get good poutine there.

Oh wow! Interesting article. Yeah. A couple of the books sound interesting, but not as good.

Linda, it looks like some of them are available to read on archive.org. You may also be able to find copies on eBay.

thanks

I finally watched the movie. I waited till my husband had finished the book so we could watch together. I had forgotten many of the details in the movie and it was interesting to see the changes made from the book. I was glad we borrowed the DVD from the library as it had extended interviews with Norman Jewison and with Poitier.

The movie was a different animal from the book. I liked them both, but of course the movie is a classic masterpiece!