The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

Great Circle by Maggie Shipstead

I claim my second retrospective judge book as this is actually a book about a film actress (one of the two main characters)

You didn't believe me when I said you'd be playing this game. The 0/13 from your pre-list predictions is impressive - literally the only person to manage it.

I really enjoyed the historical section of this novel, though not so much the modern parts. I felt they weakened the impact. Still surprised to see it here.

Just checked back and see I read Shipstead's previous book Astonish Me set against a ballet background - 3 stars for pretty lightweight though enjoyable storytelling.

This is one of 2 books on the list I have read. I do not think it belongs on a list of "finest fiction." For me it was just okay. I will look forward to seeing what others think of it.

The judges' citation:

'We were blown away by the ambition and epic sweep of this beautifully written novel about the doomed fictional aviatrix Marian Graves and a Hollywood actress cast in her biopic decades later. We felt that we knew these people and found ourselves comparing the experience of reading it to that of reading some of the great novels of the 19th century. Yet Great Circle is fresh and utterly unusual.'

I read all lists longest to shortest, so started with Great Circle, which I finished last night. The experience of reading it reminded me of reading as a teen. The complete immersion in a book, where hours pass by without me being very aware of anything else. But when I awoke this morning and my spouse asked what the heck I'd been reading the last few days, I could only answer..oh nothing.
It is a well written character study. But when I finished, it left zero impact. It was sleek and well paced and...all surface.

And for 2021, the characters are hardly unusual. I certainly didn't learn anything new (well, I hadn't realized it was hard to shear a sheep) and I could see no point to the novel except to entertain. And yes, it meets that standard very well. But what does that have to do with the Booker?

I've written this one off as TLDR (which I learned about from Lockwood, probably)

See, I already knew that it was hard to shear a sheep so there’s really nothing for me then.

Lascosas, the judges report that Great Circle is like the 19th century novels, so linear and plot driven with good to great characters, but did you find it fresh and utterly original?

This is the book I started after Sweetness and I agree with Lascosas' assessment so far only 10 per cent in. If it continues like this it has a good chance of making my shortlist on entertainment alone. Wndy's 19th century comparison far better fits Sweetness and I had thought it as I read that novel, but I will look for it here. Hugh, I don't like to predict, but you might favor this book.

A 500+ page conventional historical fiction novel sounds like the antithesis of entertaining or are there some hidden depths?

WindyJW-
I have given the 19th c comment by the Booker some thought, and it frankly makes me angry. I love the great huge 19th century novels, be they Balzac, Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Melville...

Making the comparison without explaining which authors, why one is making the comparison, it is just a simple and meaningless statement thrown in to hook the reader. And then to follow it up by saying it is fresh and unusual is a backhanding put down of those great 19th century novels.

Yeah, I'm pissed.

Sam your comment - “Hugh you might favour this book” - is very meta - feels like it comes from a 19th century novel itself.

I am reluctantant to comment so early on the novel because things can change quick, but the entertaining aspect is from the speed this novel moves from plot element to plot element. It has the feeling of a serial film or an Indiana Jones movie. Shipstead so far has managed to control this speed with economical prose but I don't know if she can sustain it,

That’s a really good (early) take, Sam, and I’m interested to see how your thoughts develop. Indiana Jones movies aren’t my cup of tea, but I admire a writer who successfully executes her approach, whatever that may be.

Definitely entertaining but definitely not fresh and unique. I thoroughly enjoyed the Marian Graves story and hated the contemporary story about the actress. I applaud the attention this will get for women pilots of WWII who were ignored for so long.

I am surprised this is on the Booker longlist. It is a middle of the pack book, in my opinion, that would place higher but for the contemporary story about the young actress.

My review -- https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Lascosas wrote: "WindyJW-
I have given the 19th c comment by the Booker some thought, and it frankly makes me angry. I love the great huge 19th century novels, be they Balzac, Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Melville...."

Given Williams presence on the panel, if he thinks 19th century novel he is thinking Dostoyevsky

Sam wrote: "Hugh, I don't like to predict, but you might favor this book."
I hope you are right, because it is long, and I am very stubborn about finishing the books I start.

I am saving this one to last

So am I. Last after I have finished the rest of the longlist, the Goldsmiths list, advanced reading for the International Booker and RoC, my subscription books….

1. I will express my horror at the list - largely on the grounds of it not including books more suited to the Goldsmiths/RoC/International Booker - and announce I am boycotting the Prize. I will then read most of the books and enjoy them, but pretend I don't

Having read every single Dostoyevsky novel at least twice I can categorically say that there is zero connection between his writing and hers. Dostoyevsky, in everything he wrote, was convoluted, complex, ambivalent, annoying and endlessly layered, as is the human soul. This book is competent and facile. It takes no risks. Dostoyevsky was nothing but risks, a high-wire striving to understand human nature in all its complexities and contradictions. Reading Dostoyevsky is many things, but pleasing is not among them.

Yes I am still not clear what Rowan Williams was thinking with this list. His endorsement of The Tomb Guardians I think speaks more to his literary tastes, but he appears to have been pre-briefed for what the Booker wants by Dame Stella.

Um....I didn't mind the Stella year list. Great? No, but not terrible. It was her comments more than the list itself that caused problems.

Their charitable mission I believe emphasises the promotion of “high quality contemporary fiction” or fostering & promoting “contemporary fiction of literary merit”

I think this longlist is consistent with this Wendy.

I think we are in danger of thinking the Booker should be our favourite 13 English language books when many of the forum myself included is are at a rather extreme end of reading - even for the literary genre.

The Goldsmith (if it could lose its pervasive white bias) is closer to what I think many (not by no means all) of us here define as “finest fiction”

Should we return to discussion of the book?

I vowed not to be negative and broke my vow so I deleted my post. Apologies for being a dismal Jimmy.

Further reading in this has seen the tight, well edited prose of the book's beginning disappear which is no surprise, but has turned my reading experience into a chore. I humbly withdraw my comment that High might favor this, and replace it with-- Hugh is going to feel insulted that I even suggested he might like it.

I’m listening to this one as an audiobook. I’ve found that format works well for entertaining, plot-driven books. I can listen to this while also navigating my commute or sautéing the zucchini for dinner without missing any nuances (or burning the zucchini!). There really aren’t any nuances to miss. This one sort of reminds me of City of Girls by Elizabeth Gilbert.

Every year, I have to choose a couple books from the long list to do as audiobooks if I’m to have any hope of finishing them all before year end. This year, I think I’ll only choose this one since it’s so long and the others are all pretty short. If any of you are considering audiobooks, the narration on this one is excellent.

I also listen to a handful on audiobook (not usually my preferred format) so that I can get to as many on the longlist as possible. I found Solace and China Room work well on audio, but I'm lost listening to Great Circle - about 30 minutes in so far.

Do you all use Audible for audio books?

WndyJW wrote: "Do you all use Audible for audio books?"

Yes, I do use audible. The readers are fine. I'm having trouble visualizing how the book is organized and understanding the chronology. The remedy may be for me to just spend 5 minutes with a physical copy at the book store flipping through it.

Audible is the only streaming option isn’t it? I know there is a streaming app for library books and I downloaded Glassblock app to listen to Pond. I was just curious. I don’t drive much anymore so I don’t know when I would listen to a book.

There may be other options idk. Usually the only books I do on audio are nonfiction or classics, which I might listen to on and off over several weeks/months.

I also use Audible for my audiobooks. I have the plan where I get one audiobook credit per month. There are also lots of books available for free (no credits needed) on the Audible platform once you’re a member.

For borrowing audiobooks from the e-library I use Overdrive. I believe there are other apps as well, depending on the library. I believe Hoopla is another but I have not used it.

I have an account with Libro.fm. It’s an audiobook service that asks the subscribers to choose their favorite independent bookstore, and that store gets part of the profits.
There’s a book service, too: Bookshop, and of course indiebound.

I like the idea of Libro.fm. If I still had my 40 minute drive to and 40 minute drive home I would consider one of the streaming services.

Just starting this as my last book on a surprising Booker longlist and given its formidable length I thought this was a rather neat metaphor on the first page of the book

It isn’t how I thought it would be, now that the circle is almost closed, the beginning and the end held apart by one last fearsome piece of water.

I read this in print and it was a quick read (except for the 3 weeks I had to abandon it with 60 pages left) - much quicker than Second Place, which is more than a third shorter in page length.

I use Audible for my audiobooks. I had 4 credits available when the longlist was announced and used them all on longlist books.

I just finished reading this one. Let me start by saying that I really liked Shipstead's first novel Seating Arrangements and thought her second novel Astonish Me was good but not as good. The Great Circle is much more ambitious than either of those two and I thought it worked better in some places than in others. I much preferred the "historical" side of things (the parts set during the first half of the 20th century) than the segments set in the present, and I thought the part of the novel set during World War II was the strongest section (and one of the longest, happily). As historical fiction goes, it's an excellent representative of the genre, and I am glad I read it and thought it was a very good read. Having said all that, it's not one that I think will linger, especially because its tone is quite dispassionate. I can't really see this one making the shortlist.

I used to love Historical Fiction and still of it as a comfort read so I won’t mind reading this if it’s shortlisted.

I am 270 pages into this and currently I can’t see it being anywhere other than bottom of my list - although I understand the last 100 pages are where the book comes alive. I am really disliking the modern day/actress parts.

I am at about page 200 and completely agree. Especially about the modern part.

But then look what happened last time I said I didn’t like a book at the halfway stage.

Yes, the modern part is dull, but I am quite enjoying the rest

I'm on page 50 or so which is all I have managed in a day. Please tell me the last 400 pages are blank or in large type face. It isn't bad but it really isn't grabbing me.

The book was initially 1000 pages and 300,000 words so this is the condensed version.