Old Books, New Readers discussion

Hello fellow readers,
Our September book of the month has been voted on and the winner is The Stranger by Albert Camus.
Our theme for the month was translated texts.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts and feelings on the book!
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...

Aw yes! A book that has one of the greatest opening line.

I am so excited to finally read this book. It's been in my sights for a while

I had never even heard of this book before, but it sounds like fun so I'm in!

I read this in french a few years back, but am looking forward to reading it again in English, since my french is not 100%.

It will be interesting to see what you think of it this time around Ian.

I have started reading this selection. I am enjoying the read so far. The writing is direct and to the point. What is your opinion of Monsieur Meursault? I find him detach. How do you see Meursault relationship with Raymond? This book is surprising me on the domestic violence. It is blunt. What are your thoughts?

I read this book about 15 or 20 years ago. I read it without the sublety it seems best to read with. I will start in a day or two.

it's really straightforward and good so far, though i feel like the original version (French) is still better just from the first line, "aujourd'hui, maman est morte." Meursault called her maman which is definitely a more intimate term and we can actually see from that line that even though it seems like he didn't care about his mom's death, we can see his affection towards her rather than "mother died today", feels dry kind of detaches Meursault from his mom.

sorry I meant *feels dry and kind of detaches Meursault from his mom.

I am reading the Vintage International Edition
which forunately does start out with, " Maman died today." In this way the novel starts off with the absurd. When Mersault arrives at the nursing home and the director directly tells Mersault that he the director knows that Mersualt loved his mother just adds to the absurdity. A nursing home would inform a family that the nursing home resident is getting sicker/weaker and that the resident family member is actively dying. One does not just receive a message that a family member who is a nursing home resident has died. From the first line, the aburdity begins.

Maybe to further the sense of absurdity . . . . I see that The Stranger is listed on Le Monde's 100 Books of the Century. This selection--The Stranger--has some fine absurd company on that list. "Absurd" is a one-word descriptor of the 20th century. I am considering reading more of these absurd books.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mo...

Patricia wrote: "it's really straightforward and good so far, though i feel like the original version (French) is still better just from the first line, "aujourd'hui, maman est morte." Meursault called her maman wh..."

Thank you for informing me that maman is a more intimate term. I did not know.

Cynda wrote: "I am reading the Vintage International Edition
which forunately does start out with, " Maman died today." In this way the novel starts off with the absurd. When M..."

Good for you, my book edition says "Mother died today" which sounds rather formal, i didn't know that nursing home would inform a family when one of the resident is dying, totally missed that, thanks for the info! and yes, the story is absurd from the beginning. Good start tho.

La Tonya wrote: "Patricia wrote: "it's really straightforward and good so far, though i feel like the original version (French) is still better just from the first line, "aujourd'hui, maman est morte." Meursault ca..."

Well i don't know anything about French but he could've said, "aujourd'hui ma mère est morte" or something, maman sounds rather informal like saying mummy but correct me if i'm wrong;)

Patricia wrote: "La Tonya wrote: "Patricia wrote: "it's really straightforward and good so far, though i feel like the original version (French) is still better just from the first line, "aujourd'hui, maman est mor..."

I do not know French; therefore, I do not know how the word is suppose to be used. I think Mersault loves his mother. But, totally unaware of what her death means to him.

What do you think about how the author describes the heat from the sun on the beach? The magistrate tactics seemed to be one trying to save a lost soul ?

What are thoughts on the trial? Is is fair? What are thoughts on Mersault being a victim of bad luck?

Follow this thread for my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Poor France--Bled out of two generations of men killed during two world wars. Life could easily have felt like one big disconnect.

I am feeling the satire, not quite enjoying. Compelled to keep reading. Great social satire.

I wonder what others make of Salamano and his dog--how they serve the story. Is Mersault like Salamano or like the dog or like both? And not just Mersault, I think, but various characters feel beaten up, I think, even if they don't quite say.

I'm reading this on audio, so if I spell names woefully wrong, please excuse me.
My copy also uses Maman, instead of Mother. I studied French at Uni, so it is correct to say that Mother and Maman aren't really the same thing. I know most of you think it is very strange that the death of his Maman should be delivered in such a manner. But, remember you are dealing with a rural, 3rd world country of Algeria. They probably only used telegrams for special circumstances when dealing with the local populace. Actually the author doesn't even tell us if this is the first telegram that he received from the nursing home. He never mentions it, so we cannot be sure.

I've finished part one. The writing is extremly simplistic. It also does a lot of telling and not so much of showing. It is very direct and to the point. I'm not quite sure if I'm a fan or not yet.

I was also wondering if anyone knew why the book had a name change. It was first called The Outsider.

Cynda wrote: "I wonder what others make of Salamano and his dog--how they serve the story. Is Mersault like Salamano or like the dog or like both? And not just Mersault, I think, but various characters feel beat..."

To me Mersault is not like Salamano or his dog. The dog knows he is getting absued. This is why he runs away. It is aware of his pain. Salamano knows he is lonely. Mersault does not he is lonely.

This was my second time reading The Stranger. Although I did slightly enjoy it more this time It still has a few things that left me wanting more from the author. First the writing seemed simple in a way that may have been on purpose but that I felt was a bit lazy? I'm not sure but I just thought it could have been more ?
The story line is great. A man who has committed a murder is judged not as much for that but more of how people see him as a non emotional person. In my opinion he took a life and he paid with his but was convicted of not being able to feel any emotion about that or other major things from his life.
I re read the last 3 pages 4 times trying to figure out what the ending is supposed to convey. The final paragraph makes me think he realizes he is alone in his emotional feelings and in life and that to not feel this way he finally will have people paying attention to him at his death. So he himself must hope enough people hate him to show up and watch him lose his head. This is at least some emotional feelings, at least for him.

Thanks for responding La Tonya. I have decided--for now at least--that for me Salamano and his dog are just another absurdity being described in the text.

I first read this novella when I was about 40 years old. It was before we consulted the Google for everything. So I knew of the reputation of this novel The Stranger as being existential. When rereading from the Vintage International I this time understood the introduction more clearly--Camus intended to write of the absurd. Ahhh now I see absurdity everywhere, such as the absurdity of

nursing home administrators
romantic love--of the old and of the young
beating of beloved pets (seems to be stand in for beating of beloved spouses)
courtroom drama
refusing spiritual succor
street life.

Upon this reread I understand (not know) that the simplicity of writing is a type of literary perfection. When telling stories to others say around a kitchen table or in a coffeeshop, storytellers who tell a story of the absurd tend to pare down the story to the absurb. When playing in my memory/imagination of stories both the absurd being told at such places, I understand how those stories of the absurd are best told pared down. The pared down aspect highlights the absurdity, allows the listeners of the story to proclaim , "How absurd is that!"

I first read this novella about 15 or 20 years ago. It has taken me this long to understand. It may not have really really taken me this long. I just had not reread until now.

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I’ve just finished reading this for the first time and wow. So much to take in. An odd tale told simply but it was at odds with the ‘action’ - although we have some big moments in the plot it never really seems to be exciting or pick up the pace. Reminded me of listening to someone tell a story in a dull monotonous tone.

Having said that I enjoyed it, I like bleak and I think the ending delivered that if nothing else!

I just finished this, I’d never read it before. I love Camus’s simple writing style. For this type of story, I feel it packs so much more of a punch than something lyrical and metaphorical would. I really enjoyed his commentary, on the court system especially. It really leaves you with a lot to think about.

Read this a long long time ago. The opening lines sound familiar. It will be interesting to see how much I remember as I read on. I'm in my 70s now and wondering how it reads as I've aged.

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Larry. The writing is so basic, that it really does feel lazy. It also has that thing going of "I did this, then I did that, then I did that". It is telling instead of showing. Another example is this line, "I saw the curve of her breast and wanted her." It must be the most unromantic discription I've ever read.
Mersault really irritated me. When ever he was given an oppertunity to speak and explain himself, he instead just keeps quiet, refusing to say anything. He obviously has an emotional problem, but he doesn't even try to understand how he could be viewed as calous and unrepentant for his actions.
Like Larry, I read the ending a few times and I just don't get it. I understand that this was meant to be an existential piece of writing, but it just did nothing for me.

I am glad though that so many others did enjoy the book. And I have enjoyed reading through the posts. It would be really boring if we all liked and disliked the same books. But, here is to me hoping that I enjoy next month's book a bit more than this one.

Camus thought of his writing style as being "absurd" not "existential". This information is available online and in the Vintage International introduction.

As someone who lived to see the brave honorable intelligent French fall to Hilter's regime and the French President Pétain become first accommodating and then compliant with Hilter's regime would easily find the world in which he lived an absurd place.

Literature--like any art--shows or references the times in which it is brought into being. This is a commonplace understanding of all the arts.

Existential philosophy was popular after WWII. As it was the job of the publishing house to make money, that publishing house, whichever it was, imposed existentialism upon an absurd text. it was the drive for money of the publishing house that confuses many.

Think of how an absurd story is told. Few words are used. Nonsensical things are said. Listeners (or readers) are left to drop their jaws, widen their eyes,and say, "That's absurd."

The France president acted in absurd ways. The French were forced to live under absurd conditions. The French people acted in ways they were uncomfortable with. . . . . Now let's compare. . . . .Administer of nursing home/minister of state (aka president) acts in an absurd manner, misconducting basic business practices. The nursing home administer was dishonest in not sharing medical situatation, allowing a family member to participate in making life-and-death decisions about a family member. Maman was loved, just her son was left powerless to comfort her as she died, to shephard her toward a peaceful death. The comparison: President Pétain was dishonest in his not sharing with the French people his plan in how to deal with the German regime. He made decisions that continued to limit and limit more and more the ability of the people of France to deal with the menace of Hilter's regime. They could not openly comfort, protect, shepherd each other into better times. This is absurd. There may be other paraellels to pursue--if others are so inclined.

I just see the sad absurdity the French people were forced into.

I have read this book five years ago and found it fascinating. It is such an open-ended book that I wrote in my review that it is a book to be completed by the reader. Which makes it fascinating to see how just about everyone interprets it differently.

The language is very important to the book. It is pared down because Mersault is pared down to the here and now - no interpretations given, just actions and sensual experiences. This man lives in the present and has no concept of added meaning. To me the biggest irony was that he was tried and convicted based on judgments and added meanings heaped up on him by others. If you don’t control your own narrative, someone else will.

I also have drawn parallels to people convicted of crimes they did not commit or were unable to voice mitigating circumstances because they did not understand their significance. There are many mentally weak people bullied by police into admissions of guilt, and state-assigned lawyers are overworked and not very good. And society is very quick to judge someone they don’t understand. To me Mersault might have been autistic - cannot recognize emotions, social conventions, is sensitive to overstimulation, is very literal. Camus likely did not know the condition but might have had a model who was such a simple person.

I actually did not find the book absurd at all. Rather revealing about ignorance and intolerance in society in general.

My original review is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Excellent parallel Marta. I am currently reading about the experience of those interred at US WWII internment camps--Japanese and Germans among others. One narrative thread about a German structrural engineer and his family tells of this engineer being sent to internment because he did not have all the misinformation the government had. He was unable to control his narrative.

I too see various socio-political shadings here in The Stranger.

The Train to Crystal City: FDR's Secret Prisoner Exchange Program and America's Only Family Internment Camp During World War II by Jan Jarboe Russell