The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

In this section, we have 2 sets of intrigues going on - the plot against Fouquet and the romantic jealousies of the court - plus the denouement of the Buckingham-de Wardes affair. I found myself suddenly thinking, "Doesn't Louis have something better to do as monarch?" But maybe that's why Richelieu, Mazarin, Fouquet and Colbert got so much power, because the kings didn't want to deal with running their own country.

Do you think Fouquet can actually love any woman? How sincere was his refusal at first of Mme de Belliere's money?

What do you think of the triangle (circle, quadrilateral. pentagon?) involving de Guiche, Henrietta, Louis, Monsieur and the Chevalier? I have a weakness for nasty characters like the Chevalier, who enjoy stirring up trouble. The end of the section implies that Henriette has added a new admirer.

The scene of the duel is one of the few that stuck with me from the first time I read this about 30 years ago. It is very cinematic, yet I don't think this idea (dueling offshore to avoid the laws in a country) has been included in any film versions of Dumas. The description of the scenery is unusually long for Dumas but seems very fitting, in that it is also over-the-top dramatic. In typical fashion, once the duel is finished, the victor goes all out to help his defeated rival. Will this reduce deWardes' resentment? (I think it's unlikely.)

Robin, great comments as usual :)

DeWardes is portrayed as a complete villain, but he does have good manners - his one redeeming quality. He is a marquis after all. (If I remember correctly his father was a count so that’s a sudden raise in ranks - I’m not sure how that happened.)
The scene of him and Buckingham dueling on an ‘island’ at sunset was very vivid. I don’t remember any of this from my first reading, but it is very cinematic. The chivalry in the whole thing is fascinating. People are willing to die or suffer permanent injuries all in the name of honor.
Side note:
I feel like this chapter should have been called ‘sword trusts in the water’ but that was the title of another chapter from last week’s reading 🤷🏻‍♀️ so strange...
I also I find the chevalier amusing - he is an ‘evil genius’.
I don’t like Henrietta at all. She annoys me.
The scene when Monsieur walks in on her and De Guiche and the rest of their entourage is hilarious. I can picture them scrambling and trying to escape, even the musician hides his guitar under the carpet. Monsieur throws a tamper tantrum like a child - he has his favorite companion - why can’t madame have her own?! 🤷🏻‍♀️
Overall this section was keeping me entertained during the storm ⛈

It's amusing that the same chivalry came up this week in The Black Arrow - guys fighting each other, then becoming allies/friends out of respect for each other. As was pointed out there, that only works if both parties are from the same cultural background.

My memory of this general part of the book is that we will see more of the inside-the-court jockeying for power and influence and to catch others in the act of something.

I actually thought about reading The Black Arrow with the group, but I was already behind on this book 📖 😬
What do you think of The Black Arrow?
Is it similar to Dumas’ books?

Ana wrote: "I actually thought about reading The Black Arrow with the group, but I was already behind on this book 📖 😬
What do you think of The Black Arrow?
Is it similar to Dumas’ books?"

It is a little bit similar in that it takes place mostly in a man's world and there is a fair amount of action and fighting. But we all agreed that it was clear it was written for young people, with the plot not always making sense and the teenage hero performing some unlikely deeds. I didn't like it as much as Treasure Island or Kidnapped. It seems Stevenson was trying to incorporate more actual history, which meant there were a lot of historical characters and events to keep track of.

It’s amazing that there are so many people commenting in The Black Arrow group. I guess it’s a shorter book so it’s easier to commit to the reading schedule. The Dumas fan club seems much smaller. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I wonder if the length of the books and all the sequels scared people off or they just didn’t like the story.

I think (hope!) there are people reading who aren't necessarily commenting. I know some get behind and then catch up, which is fine. We are approaching halfway through this 3-4 book amalgam. I appreciate those who have been sticking with it. My memory is that there is a lot of court intrigue/romance coming up and then the last part becomes more adventurous again with the iron mask story.

I read the books some years back and wasn't really up for a reread.

Lori wrote: "I read the books some years back and wasn't really up for a reread."

That's understandable, it's a big commitment. As I get older, I am less interested in rereading because there are already "so many books, so little time." On the other hand, if it was long enough ago, it's like a new book. I know I read Return of the Native in high school English, but when we read it here, I found the only thing I remembered was the early scene with the bonfires and I had no recollection of the rest of the book!

I am still working on catching up and have just finished this section.

I do not know whether you have seen the series or read the books of The White Princess and the White Queen and the Spanish Princess playing around the time of the War of the Roses to Henry XIII. I felt a little reminded of that in these chapters. It is all about rather personal intrigues (a little like soap opera) without any political and macro social aspects. We never learn about the people in these books. It is almost like traveling somewhere and only seeing the hotel and nothing beyond.
Furthermore, what do you think was Dumas’s opinion of women? In these chapters he calls them weak a couple of times, which we can expect comparing the social status of women at the time, but I had not thought of him thinking that way before, as he has been depicting rather strong and for their days rather independent women before like Milady or Raoul’s mother.
There was also somewhere a remark about that only women do, but now trying to find that sentence I feel I must have dreamt it. I should have written it down directly as it irritated me a little when I read it like the mentioning of women being weak in a couple of places which was somehow new in these novels.

Robin P wrote: "I think (hope!) there are people reading who aren't necessarily commenting. I know some get behind and then catch up, which is fine. We are approaching halfway through this 3-4 book amalgam. I appr..."

I'm in this camp. I have reached this point in the books, but I haven't had much to say about the books. They feel like they have more filler than the earlier books. I had read The Vicomte de Bragelonne before, but I remembered almost nothing about it. I will be reading the latter parts for the first time, so hopefully I'll have more to say on these books as I catch up.

Like others, I enjoyed the dueling scene at the island. I hope there is more of this and less repetition of the same scenes from the perspectives of different characters.


Hedi wrote: "Furthermore, what do you think was Dumas’s opinion of women? In these chapters he calls them weak a couple of times, which we can expect comparing the social status of women at the time, but I had not thought of him thinking that way before, as he has been depicting rather strong and for their days rather independent women before like Milady or Raoul’s mother.

He seems to be rather typical of men of his era rather than someone more progressive in his beliefs. Women only get to be innocent maidens, temptresses, or mothers/grandmothers.

Hedi - Is this the passage you were looking for? "Heaven has graciously granted to women, on account of their very weakness, more than it has accorded to other creatures. They can conceal their own feeling from a man, but from them no man can conceal his." It was in my book in the chapter called The Dowry.

Yes, thanks, Anna! 😊

That was exactly the passage. I still think that Dumas has some stronger female characters compared to some other (male) authors of the time. I was a little surprised by his using these words which he had never used before. I think that is the reason that it struck me.

BTW, great to know that there are more people following our read. Do not hesitate to say something. It is nice to have some fellow readers around. 😉

Sorry, now I wrote Anna instead of Anne. ☹️ I hope you can forgive me.

Yes, happy to see people are still reading this!

Hedi wrote: "Sorry, now I wrote Anna instead of Anne. ☹️ I hope you can forgive me."

It's okay. That happens all the time.

I'm glad I was able to find the passage for you. I had just finished reading the footnotes about that passage when I came here to comment. I often read the footnotes for my paperback later rather than as I go along because I have been listening to the book on my phone while I walk my dogs.