Classics and the Western Canon discussion

Day 4 opens with an address to the reader that is largely defensive. Boccaccio writes that he has been fighting in service of his "worthy ladies" but has been battered by the winds of an envious criticism. In his defense he offers the story of Filipo Balducci, who shelters his son to such an extreme degree that he never sees a woman or learns what a woman is. But of course the father learns that he can't keep this knowledge from his son forever because his "wits are no match for Nature." Boccaccio makes clear that he is writing specifically for his ladies because, like Filipo's son, he is fond of them and wants to please them.

The stories of the fourth day, ruled over by Filostrato, are about tragic destinies. They speak of "those whose love came to an unhappy end." I suppose the immediate question that comes to mind is: How can an unhappy story be pleasing? And are these stories pleasing?

Filostrato certainly thinks so, at least when the story is as visceral and tragic as the story of Guiscardo and Ghismunda, and he duplicates the most grotesque element of it in his own story. He is not pleased, however with Pampinea's story, which might be the most amusing (or at least silly) of the day. Filostrato's song at the end tells us a little about why he enjoys these tales of unhappiness -- he is quite unhappy himself, and the source of his unhappiness is one of the ladies in the brigata. Who could it be?

Stories 3 through 8 concern young lovers, surely the most forgivable of transgressors. Maybe there's some comfort for the upright in knowing that they generally come to a bad end.

I find that people are typically more accepting and more interested in stories that involve tragedies. Reminds me a bit of the scene in the first Matrix movie in which Agent Smith is explaining to Morpheus why the paradise matrix failed.

“as a species, human beings define their reality through misery and suffering”

I believe Filostrato had something similar in mind in his first line of the song he concluded with.

“By weeping I can show
How very much my heart is right to grieve,
Betrayed, O Love, despite your promises.
…
I could not see what pain
And suffering I would have,
When finding she’d embraced another’s worth
Within her heart, and cast me out of it.
…
May you find Love and unto him alone
Explain how little worth
My sad and bitter life
Still has for me”

Would say that the speaker of these lines has define their whole reality around the misery and suffering of unrequited love.

What I wondered was if Filostrato´s ´heartbreak´ happened when the company already was on it´s way. In that case, the party isn´t as innocent as maybe was suggested earlier, i.e. that romantic activities are happening.

If this all happened before them traveling out of the city and he is this much wounded, why then would he agree on going with them. Unless of course the love interest of ´his´ lady wouldn´t join so he thought he might have a better chance with her without him (this all might seem as some confused rambling, so I hope you guys can follow my train of thought)

Another thing: this is the first time there's a king and not a queen. Is the rather harsh subject of the stories a reflection of a man being in charge? Does this echo the stories told before within the then given subject? Or is this mere projection on my side?

I must admit that although I enjoy the stories that are told, I find it hard to remember them. They become something of an Aha-Erlebnis. I do fancy you can have a really nice study of them though and how Boccacio crafted his characters (how for example do they compare to one another as already is mentioned, but also how do the stories of one person over the days pan out and do they show certain developments/trends?)

Although I liked the previous tales, those ones were the better ones. So tragic but still enjoyable.

Marieke wrote: "Another thing: this is the first time there's a king and not a queen. Is the rather harsh subject of the stories a reflection of a man being in charge? Does this echo the stories told before within the then given subject? Or is this mere projection on my side?
."

The author says that he is writing to provide relief for the suffering of those who are in love, and he reiterates in the introduction to Day 4 that he is writing for women especially. So it's interesting that the theme of the first male ruler is tragedy and unhappiness. Though I hope that not all men are as dour and unhappy as Philostrato. Dioneo does not seem so -- he's often outrageous, but not certainly not sad.

I’m still reading this section, but I’m a little surprised to see Filostrato actively critiquing the first two stories as not quite what he is looking for. This seems like a real change from the behavior of the Queens and a tad egotistical. Pampinea seems to be much more in tune with the feeling of the group and clever in her thoughts how to please both King and the rest of the brigada.

Mike wrote: "I find that people are typically more accepting and more interested in stories that involve tragedies. Reminds me a bit of the scene in the first Matrix movie in which Agent Smith is explaining to ..."

I also found the characters (especially the female characters) relatively more dignified in the day 4 stories, like Andreuola who keeps her integrity and her father who respects her wishes. Tragedy may befall on noble characters or maybe it's the other way around with the experience of undergoing (or overcoming) hardship making the characters more virtuous by toughening them up?

Susan wrote: "I’m still reading this section, but I’m a little surprised to see Filostrato actively critiquing the first two stories as not quite what he is looking for. This seems like a real change from the be..."

Yeah, he may be the foil to Dioneo's outrageous gaiety. Pampinea seems to be the real leader mediating between the extremes.

Borum wrote: " I also found the characters (especially the female characters) relatively more dignified in the day 4 stories, like Andreuola who keeps her integrity and her father who respects her wishes. ."

I agree, but I think it's disturbing that almost all of the female characters in the Day 4 stories die. (Well, one becomes a nun, which in Boccaccio's world might amount to the same thing.) The images remind me at times of religious iconography -- the hearts in stories 1 and 9 especially.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I've fallen behind in cross posting the links (with so many illustrations) from the earlier goodreads discussion of Boccaccio. Here are the first five stories of day four with associated comments.

I am particularly struck by the basil pot illustrations (@9, 13 & 19, with Keats' poem) and the Bernardino Mei "portrait" of Ghismunda (@24). I also found interesting the comments about the indirect allusions to the plague oft buried in the words of the text.

(I suspect most of you have found this archive yourselves by now if interested, but I will try to catch up. We'll see.)

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Above is for stories 6-10 of the fourth day.

As I listen to the news these days of the tragic homicide of Gabby Petito, I wonder what it would be like to take 18th-21th century news or fiction stories and link each with its most nearly parallel story from Boccaccio. Certainly modern fiction is rife with stories of dysfunction. I haven't done the "deep dive" such matching would take, but I suspect thoughts thereof will float by for at least months after this read. (I tend to read "classics" finding current parallels, as well as their providing excursions into history and the nature of humankind.)

I thought this fourth day was quite a dramatic shift from the stories that have preceded it, the character of the king came to the forefront and his judgement of the stories is different to the previous three days when everything seems to have been approved and laughed and cried at as the narrator would will it. For me it's interesting just before the half way point to have a melancholy individual revealed in their idyllic escape from the plagued city.

Lily wrote: “I've fallen behind in cross posting the links (with so many illustrations) from the earlier goodreads dis..."

Thanks for the link, Lily. I love the illustrations.

After reading so many stories about wives betraying husbands, I almost felt nauseated. So relieved to see a different variation of the theme: Betrayal.

The first story, about Guiscardo and Ghismonda, is the best I have read so far. This is a much more delicate and interesting love relationship: the father’s love of his daughter and how he felt betrayed, his inacceptance and how careful she was trying to hide it. Ghismonda’s speech to her father touched me deeply.

It’s just as tragic as Romeo and Juliet. Actually, I think it is even better.

I see his father/daughter tension/love all around me in different parts of society and how it brings about tragedy or defiance.

Charlotte wrote: "This is a much more delicate and interesting love relationship: the father’s love of his daughter and how he felt betrayed, his inacceptance and how careful she was trying to hide it. Ghismonda’s speech to her father touched me deeply."

I think overall there doesn't seem to be much exploration of different kinds of love, so it's really interesting you picked this one out, Charlotte, as I have been reading the majority of the stories as centred on male/female romantic/sexual interactions.