The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

My posts and comments will be late. I received a covid booster and am not feeling well. I’ve open this thread so you may continue the discussion. I will post once I’m feeling better.

Congratulations on your booster! After my second shot I felt pretty awful but taking an Aleve helped.

My apologies for the late posting. In these chapters, Isabella is flirting with Captain Tilney and seems cooler toward James. She also spends quite a bit of time talking about money to Catherine.

Catherine is invited by the Tilneys to go to Northanger Abbey for a visit. On the way, Mr. Tilney tells Catherine a gothic tale that plays into her assumptions of the abbey. Of course, there is a storm, and Catherine’s curiosity gets the best of her. She investigates a chest and a cabinet setting her imagination on fire, only to find her reaction silly in the morning.

General Tilney proudly shows off his gardens and home. Once again Catherine’s imagination is set off. She is now deciding if Mrs. Tilney was murdered or is being kept a prisoner in the abbey.

What does Austen imply about the female protagonists in sentimental/sensational/gothic novels?

Has your opinion about any of the characters changed? Which one and why?

What part does our imagination play in our perceptions?

(Isabella)“Oh! My sweet Catherine, in your generous heart I know it would signify nothing; but we must not expect such disinterestedness in many. As for myself, I am sure I only wish our situations were reversed. Had I the command of millions, were I mistress of the whole world, your brother would be my only choice.”

Oh, really! That was my first thought and my second was that Isabella would drop James and his £400 like a stone and look for something better ( income wise that is. ) Then along came Captain Tilney, handsome and rich. So hopefully Isabella will flirt herself out of James’s life and he will be a man saved from misery. Not that the captain will be Isabella’s financial salvation because he will no doubt act like many army officers in novels of the period ( looking for a good time and nothing more.)

Mr. Tilney and his brother seem to very very different in character, at least on the surface. However, Mr. Tilney seemed quick to defend his brother who was definitely in the wrong in ‘making love’ to an engaged woman even if Isabella was using every trick in the book to flirt with him.

Also is the Tilney teasing getting a bit too much ? …..particularly when he says things to Catherine like this…..

“But now you love a hyacinth. So much the better. You have gained a new source of enjoyment, and it is well to have as many holds upon happiness as possible. Besides, a taste for flowers is always desirable in your sex, as a means of getting you out of doors, and tempting you to more frequent exercise than you would otherwise take. And though the love of a hyacinth may be rather domestic, who can tell, the sentiment once raised, but you may in time come to love a rose?”

and this….

Henry smiled, and said, “How very little trouble it can give you to understand the motive of other people's actions.” OUCH

At the Abbey, the General’s hint of a possible forthcoming marriage only reinforced Henry’s comment as it went way above Catherine’s head.

I did enjoy Catherine’s imagination running riot only to be brought down to earth with a series of ever increasing bumps. The laundry bills were the best, but I am surprised she didn’t think they might be in some sort of code…….

Her concerns about the General and the fate of his wife only emphasise the dangers of letting the imagination use scraps of observations and partial knowledge to jump to conclusions without any factual evidence to support them. It is not unlike the many articles that journalists and other commentators write in newspapers and on social media.

Isabella is certainly becoming predictable—whatever she professes is sure to be the opposite of the truth. “Of all things in the world inconstancy is my aversion”?? Fortunately, her sway over Catherine is waning: “Isabella’s opinion of the Tilneys did not influence her friend.” And Isabella’s facade is starting to slip: “Modesty, and all that, is very well in its way, but really a little common honesty is sometimes quite as becoming.” She’s truly incapable of grasping Catherine’s fundamental naïveté, much less her ordinary good qualities.

Meanwhile, away from even the inadequate guidance provided by the Allens and out of her depth socially, Catherine at the Abbey is leaning more and more heavily on what she thinks she knows from her reading. Henry did a bit set her up for this error on the journey, with his joking portrait of the horrors in store for her. Perhaps his overestimated her common sense; in any case, between her social anxiety and her predisposition to see the world through a gothic romance lens, she is asking for trouble. Imagining every evil of her host is especially dangerous because the duty of civility to one’s host was paramount.

At the same time, we are getting intimations that General Tilney is, in fact, not a good guy. His children act like abuse victims and although he summons up his best manners when dealing with Catherine, it is definitely an effort. Aside from his heavy-handed attempts to promote a match between her and Henry, he seems grotesquely wealth-obsessed and materialistic—which makes his interest in Catherine as a daughter-in-law inexplicable. The narrative’s focus on Catherine’s foolish speculations distracts us somewhat from the darker aspects of the story, but they are growing.

At this point in English literature, it was the job of a heroine to be prey; Catherine may not fit the traditional profile of a heroine, but she’s starting to seem a bit like prey at Northanger Abbey.

I did find some of Tilney’s teasing in these chapters uncomfortable. My opinion of Isabella is that she’s a bit of a snake. Marriage was one of the few ways women could have a roof over her head.

Henry Tilney may be a little too much in love with his own wit, but the problem for me is that I’m a little in love with his wit too! I can’t help but feel he’d make a cheerful and lively husband. Like a guy who breaks the cycle of abuse.

Abigail wrote: "Henry Tilney may be a little too much in love with his own wit, but the problem for me is that I’m a little in love with his wit too! I can’t help but feel he’d make a cheerful and lively husband. ..."

For the most part I’ve enjoyed his wit. There was just one section that made me cringe. He’s definitely the better choice.

Deborah wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Henry Tilney may be a little too much in love with his own wit, but the problem for me is that I’m a little in love with his wit too! I can’t help but feel he’d make a cheerful and ..."

I agree that Henry is far above the rough conceited oaf that is John Thorpe, but I’m not sure that either would suit Catherine. Would Henry be able to quell his superior tone once there were married? Despite some of his more perceptive comments about Catherine, Henry still doesn’t seem to understand the best way to support her, becoming somewhat stern and defensive when speaking of his brother’s antics and the death of his mother.

This earlier quote intrigued me…….

(Catherine) “ I consider a country-dance as an emblem of marriage. Fidelity and complaisance are the principal duties of both; and those men who do not choose to dance or marry themselves, have no business with the partners or wives of their neighbours.”

Are those just the thoughts of young, naive Catherine or those of the author herself?

Interesting. I wonder which it is or may be both. It’s my third time reading so I know who she chooses. No spoilers from me

That quote seems above Catherine’s grade level, so I assume it was something the author wanted to say but couldn’t fit into Henry Tilney’s mouth. The “have no business with the wives of their neighbours” is definitely not something Catherine would think, much less say!