Support for Indie Authors discussion

What are your best tips for marketing your novel, other than social media and amazon ads?
Grateful for tips.

Helen wrote: "What are your best tips for marketing your novel, other than social media and amazon ads?
Grateful for tips."

Hello Helen!

Marketing can be a very tricky concept for sure. I'd first ask a couple of questions. Do you have more than one book? And what are your goals you hope to achieve by marketing? How you proceed will be largely dependent on the answers to those questions.

The best tip I have would be to tell you to keep writing. A wise man once said, nothing sells a book better than the next one :)

Hi,
Yes, I have several books. Two historical novels and one children's book. My newest novel came out in June and it's going well, but I need to market it more.

Helen wrote: "Hi,
Yes, I have several books. Two historical novels and one children's book. My newest novel came out in June and it's going well, but I need to market it more."

In that case, you could use services like Freebooksy, ENT, or if you can land them, BookBub. These email services can really drive sales. Be sure to include a sign-up link to your own newsletter in your book to capture those readers. Obviously then, you need to have a newsletter. This, more than anywhere else, is where you will control your audience. Providers like MailerLite or ConvertKit can get you started here.

Before you dive into all that though, be sure your covers match your genre. You don't want to pollute your also boughts on Amazon with readers who thought they were getting something else.

Eldon wrote: "Helen wrote: "Hi,
Yes, I have several books. Two historical novels and one children's book. My newest novel came out in June and it's going well, but I need to market it more."

In that case, you c..."

Thank you!

Develop and email list. Those are your real customers--actual readers who read in your genre. Use various promotions like the Fussy librarian, Bookbub small ads, Book Gorilla, Book Cave, etc. Do a preorder and advertise it on kindle and elsewhere. Touch base with podcasters and bloggers who are in your genre. Get to know them and then see if they will feature your book when it comes out. Start now, don't wait.

Look in the marketing folder on here. There are a lot more tips there.

B.A. wrote: "Develop and email list. Those are your real customers--actual readers who read in your genre. Use various promotions like the Fussy librarian, Bookbub small ads, Book Gorilla, Book Cave, etc. Do a ..."

Thank you!

Rita wrote: "No links. No self-promotion."

Social media and Amazon ads have been most effective for me. Also, try to meet other writers of your genre. I've been to Historical Novel Society conferences and it's been great! You'll meet other writers who can read and review your book, plug your book, mention your book to others.

Eileen wrote: "Social media and Amazon ads have been most effective for me. Also, try to meet other writers of your genre. I've been to Historical Novel Society conferences and it's been great! You'll meet other ..."

Thanks. Amazon ads have been ok for me, but it seems they're not as good as they were in the beginning of Amazon's publishing.
I do like those types of ads though. I rather pay for pay by click ads than give away books at giveaways or lower my prices. Do you know of any other pay per click ads places?

Helen wrote: "Eileen wrote: "Social media and Amazon ads have been most effective for me. Also, try to meet other writers of your genre. I've been to Historical Novel Society conferences and it's been great! You..."

Facebook and BookBub offer CPC advertising.

I thought BookBub was just for discounted books.

I'll definitely check out FB click per ads. Thank you!

Helen wrote: "I thought BookBub was just for discounted books.

I'll definitely check out FB click per ads. Thank you!"

BookBub has an ads platform for books of any price. However, their readers are highly price sensitive and the platform can be tricky to learn. Good luck!

Keep in mind that trying to promote a book that has very few reviews may be similar to banging your head against a wall... which definitely makes it hard for people just starting out.

Eileen wrote: "Social media and Amazon ads have been most effective for me. Also, try to meet other writers of your genre. I've been to Historical Novel Society conferences and it's been great! You'll meet other ..." I've used Amazon Ads and Facebook Ads, but stopped using Facebook ads after a few people complained they were getting spammed. I spend very little on Amazon ads, but my royalties earned always exceed the cost of the ads. Note that this only seems to work with one of my books, as people seem to search for things like "Sports Fiction" or "Golf Fiction" and my book will come up in the search results. It doesn't seem to work as well for my other books which are mysteries, although next month I'm planning to run an Amazon ad for "JFK Assassination" and other similar phrases as that is the subject of one of my other books. I also find that Amazon ads increases my Kindle Unlimited pages read more than actual sales.

Tomas wrote: "Keep in mind that trying to promote a book that has very few reviews may be similar to banging your head against a wall... which definitely makes it hard for people just starting out."

Good advice Tomas!

I think another avenue could be having a physical presence in well recognized book stores that promote author signing events. This could take up much of your time, but it would be good exposure, and could be profitable.

Having a physical presence in a well-known bookstore is a lot easier said than done. Any ideas on how to accomplish this? I'm sure many writers like myself would be eager to hear how it's done.

Gail wrote: "Having a physical presence in a well-known bookstore is a lot easier said than done. Any ideas on how to accomplish this? I'm sure many writers like myself would be eager to hear how it's done."

I would suggest starting small. Approach local bookstores that aren't chains and many will be glad to put your wares on their shelves.

Run don't walk away from FastBookTours.com
They email you from
Helga G. Jones and
Robert Morin

Touting 49,645 active reviewers to give legit reviews for Amazon & Goodreads. I was not satisfied with their generic, non-descript reviews (none of which were on Amazon) I don't even think they read the book. and only 3 or 4 of these. when I complained and said that wasn't what was advertised they sent me a threatening email (see below)

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 1:04 PM Anonymousemail wrote:
Powered by Anonymousemail → Join Us!

YOU KNOW WHO WE ARE? If not, Google Anonymous hacker group. The person you have been harassing for reviews since the last few days is affiliated with us. We have already warned you to desist from such activities and be happy with what you have got. If you persist, you will lose whatever reviews you have gotten and get bad reviews on your book. Neither Goodreads/Amazon nor your country's law agencies can do anything to protect you from us. Consider this the last warning. We do not want our client to be harassed anymore. YOU WILL GET NO REFUNDS. JUST DISAPPEAR!

Wow! Now that's aggressive...

Erika wrote: "Wow! Now that's aggressive..."

Aggressive is one word for it. Yikes!

It's a strange world out there.

Helen wrote: "Eldon wrote: "Helen wrote: "Hi,
Yes, I have several books. Two historical novels and one children's book. My newest novel came out in June and it's going well, but I need to market it more."

In th..."
Please take note of the phrase "if you can land them" in regards to BookBub. One of the reasons their ads are so difficult for beginning writers is to advertise with them, you first must have 1,000 BookBub followers to even be considered for an ad.
Once you've got your 1,000 followers, then you need to meet the following criteria:
your title must be at minimum:
* Free or discounted by at least 50%. We promise our members that we will only feature books that have been deeply discounted.
* The best deal available. We won’t consider a book if it has been offered for a better price in the last 30 days, or if it will be offered for less in the near future.
* Error free. We look for content that is well-formatted and free of typos and grammatical errors.
* A limited-time offer. While we do consider permanently free books, we otherwise don’t feature low-price offers that are always available.
* A full-length book. Novels and collections of short stories or novellas should be at least 150 pages in length, works of nonfiction at least 100 pages, cookbooks at least 70 pages, middle grade books at least 100 pages, and children’s picture books at least 20 pages. We currently do not feature stand-alone novellas or short stories.
* Widely available. We only feature deals that are available on at least one major retailer in either the US or the UK. And the more, the merrier.
* Lastly, we will not feature the same book more than once every 6 months. Nor will we feature the same author more than once every 30 days. Visit our Support page to find out how this policy applies to box sets.
Your best bet with book but is to start developing followers on the site before you worry about running an ad.

Gail wrote: "Helen wrote: "Eldon wrote: "Helen wrote: "Hi,
Yes, I have several books. Two historical novels and one children's book. My newest novel came out in June and it's going well, but I need to market it..."

Gail, things with BookBub are not as dire as you make out. I have had 3 feature deals with them this year (one in the coveted US market). I assure you, I have far less than 1,000 followers on BB. My feature deal for the US market is a permafree book. And the books used for the other deals are Amazon exclusive.

Without a doubt they are difficult to land, and I've had my share of rejections too, but it can be done, and should be strived for because the results are worth the effort :)

As for their ad platform, there are no restrictions to advertising with them I'm aware of. It's tough to get an ad to perform if you lack the skill (which, honestly I do), but many authors do find success there.

Wow! That is aggressive! And it is DEFINITELY a threat! Whether the threat is verbal, written or implied through physical intimidation or the brandishing of weapons, it is potentially a criminal act. Reporting threats to the appropriate authorities produces a number of benefits for the person threatened, law enforcement and the public at large.
Basically you report the threatening e-mail to the Justice Department who will do the rest.

Eldon wrote: "things with BookBub are not as dire as you make out. I have had 3 feature deals with them this year (one in the coveted US market). I assure you, I have far less than 1,000 followers on BB"

Same here. I have less than 50 bookbub followers and have had a few UK featured deals and a US featured deal on reduced price books. My books are also only available on amazon.

L.K. wrote: "Eldon wrote: "things with BookBub are not as dire as you make out. I have had 3 feature deals with them this year (one in the coveted US market). I assure you, I have far less than 1,000 followers ..."

It is possible :)

Don't you need some amount of reviews to be considered at Bookbub? That's the main hurdle for new authors, I'd say, getting the first couple of reviews.

Tomas wrote: "Don't you need some amount of reviews to be considered at Bookbub? That's the main hurdle for new authors, I'd say, getting the first couple of reviews."

There is no stated threshold for reviews at BookBub that I've ever seen. Obviously, your chances are better with more reviews, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Apply for it - there's nothing to lose.

You don't need reviews, but you do need followers to be considered for their feature ads

Helen wrote: "I thought BookBub was just for discounted books.

I'll definitely check out FB click per ads. Thank you!"

Hi Helen. Upon further research (and according to David Gaughran) FB doesn't offer a CPC option. They quote it, but at the end of the day it's based off an impression model.

Gail wrote: "You don't need reviews, but you do need followers to be considered for their feature ads"

Hi Gail,

When you say "feature ads" do you mean Bookbub ads or the featured deal?

Gail wrote: "You don't need reviews, but you do need followers to be considered for their feature ads"

That seems even harder to achieve, tbh.

Tomas wrote: "Gail wrote: "You don't need reviews, but you do need followers to be considered for their feature ads"

That seems even harder to achieve, tbh."

Not sure it's required Tomas. From their own site they list these as the requirements:

In order for us to consider your submission for a BookBub feature, your title must be at minimum:

Free or discounted by at least 50%. We promise our members that we will only feature books that have been deeply discounted.

The best deal available. We won’t consider a book if it has been offered for a better price in the last 30 days, or if it will be offered for less in the near future.

Error free. We look for content that is well-formatted and free of typos and grammatical errors.

A limited-time offer. While we do consider permanently free books, we otherwise don’t feature low-price offers that are always available.

A full-length book. Novels and collections of short stories or novellas should be at least 150 pages in length, works of nonfiction at least 100 pages, cookbooks at least 70 pages, middle grade books at least 100 pages, and children’s picture books at least 20 pages. We currently do not feature stand-alone novellas or short stories.

Widely available. We only feature deals that are available on at least one major retailer in either the US or the UK. And the more, the merrier.

Lastly, we will not feature the same book more than once every 6 months. Nor will we feature the same author more than once every 30 days. Visit our Support page to find out how this policy applies to box sets.

Eldon wrote: "Tomas wrote: "Gail wrote: "You don't need reviews, but you do need followers to be considered for their feature ads"

That seems even harder to achieve, tbh."

Not sure it's required Tomas. From th..."

BookBub featured deals are getting harder to get, as well as more expensive. However, they do deliver sales very well!

One thing I learned earlier this year is that it is easier to get a featured deal if you go with the international option (doesn't include the US). I got one during the summer and while it wasn't much of a moneymaker, it does get your sales and readership up.

The painful thing writers need to learn is that it is not easy to make money as a writer so don't quit the day job. If you want to make money, you have to write a lot, you have to write books that the market wants, and you have to learn how to market your books.

Eldon wrote: "Error free. We look for content that is well-formatted and free of typos and grammatical errors."

To quote David Gaughran: "Typo-free book wasn't ever published." It just isn't possible to catch all of them, even if you had 10 people to go through it. I've seen typos in professionally published books, small typos that are easily overlooked. But I get the point.

Anyway, My point about followers/reviews is that I guess it'll be hard to push a book if I don't fully know my target audience to help me with choosing the right parameters. I may have some idea of my primary audience (20-ish males) but that is subject to my own biased view. Before I'd make at least a couple of sales, and get some reviews, I have no way to verify that.

Eileen wrote: "The painful thing writers need to learn is that it is not easy to make money as a writer so don't quit the day job."

I know that, and I don't count on quitting my daily job - not anytime soon. I'd consider $100/year a success. Sure, it's a nice dream that it'd make $100 a month and I'd chuck that into my retirement fund but I know it's tough work to get anywhere close to that.

Tomas wrote: To quote David Gaughran: "Typo-free book wasn't ever published."

Their rules, not mine :)

I know, but it seems a bit naïve to expect that. Trad-pub books, done by companies who can spend thousands on editors, can't do that if they tried. It's almost impossible for self-pub authors.

Then, I guess if they went with "edited to the best of your ability" would be easy to abuse - because authors could then try to pass their books in bad shape claiming they've done their best. So I guess it's about a simple formulation. But it's still impossible, as I know just by reading books...

Tomas wrote: "I know, but it seems a bit naïve to expect that. Trad-pub books, done by companies who can spend thousands on editors, can't do that if they tried. It's almost impossible for self-pub authors.

The..."

Totally agree. But, I also doubt they enforce it that strictly.

Eileen wrote: "Eldon wrote: "Tomas wrote: "Gail wrote: "You don't need reviews, but you do need followers to be considered for their feature ads"

That seems even harder to achieve, tbh."

Not sure it's required ..."

I was just filling up the form but then I saw the fee of $1,588 for a feature deal so I just backed off. I don't have that kind of budget. I'll try other venues.

Rosalinda wrote: "Eileen wrote: "Eldon wrote: "Tomas wrote: "Gail wrote: "You don't need reviews, but you do need followers to be considered for their feature ads"

That seems even harder to achieve, tbh."

Not sure..."

I know they're expensive but, $1,588?! Wow! What genre charges that much?

I send emails with copies of my book attached to people who are on Voracious Readers Only. I also mention that if they would prefer a paperback version I can send them one. So, when they do reply to my email and tell me that they would like a paperback copy, I order one through my publishers. Straightaway, I receive royalties from that sale. Also, I have the advantage of having a cashback option on my debit card. So may be worth thinking about.

There's a lot of newsletters and blogs that will add your book to their listings for free. If you line them up with days you do giveaways, they can really boost your visibility. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Awesomegang, but if you search free advertising for authors, you can probably find many more.

E.M. wrote: "if you search free advertising for authors, you can probably find many more."

The hard work will probably be sorting out the good ones.

But you're receiving royalties on books you've shelled your own money for to send to your readers. There is no profit in that for you. It all seems to me to be a major net loss, especially when you also add in the shipping costs.
Maybe you're not explain this well enough!

On topic of Bookbub, yeah, the big genres can go to quite a high price. Then, those very genres can give you quite a good conversion. There's a reason why the featured deal is considered one of the best marketing tools available to writers - because the success rate is quite high.

JAKe wrote: "But you're receiving royalties on books you've shelled your own money for to send to your readers. There is no profit in that for you. It all seems to me to be a major net loss, especially when you..."

I am a retired CPA and did my analysis. It is not cost-effective for me. I know plenty of writers do not make the big bucks unless you are a celebrity but I love to write and tell my stories and to impart some knowledge to people. That's why I write historical fiction. I still watch my budget though. If you can afford it, go for it. I'm on social security so I can't.

Rosalinda wrote: "JAKe wrote: "But you're receiving royalties on books you've shelled your own money for to send to your readers. There is no profit in that for you. It all seems to me to be a major net loss, especi..."

As a CPA myself, I completely understand where you're coming from Rosalinda :)

Oh, I would suspect most writers feel their words are important and want them read. Like graphic artists though, you cannot sustain always falling on the short side of the monetary ledger.