Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy discussion

Before the pandemic one thing I loved to do was browse the sci-fi and fantasy shelves at the library and just pick a couple of books that looked interesting and sounded interesting, based on the jacket blurb. But I've been disappointed a lot. I don't like fantasy and sci-fi with explicit sex and extreme profanity, but I've found those elements in so much of what I've encountered in recent years.

Ten-fifteen years ago I read and enjoyed many of the Forgotten Realms novels. I also love Star Trek fiction. In the early 70s I fell in love with Asimov's first three Foundation books, Herbert's first three Dune books, and some others. I've read all the classics by Heinlein, Norton, Clarke, etc etc.

I also read "Neuromancer" and others by William Gibson years ago, and enjoyed them. I don't recall his works as being heavy in the areas I don't like. But I can't say the same about other "cyberpunk" novels I've tried to read more recently.

Could someone recommend some fantasy novels that will rekindle my interest in the genre? I tried J.V. Jones recently and was disappointed. I have never read George R.R. Martin, but some reviews I have read here make me not want to read him. I tried Anne Rice's "Lasher" recently, but certain elements just turned me off.

Also, some sci-fi recommendations without all the extreme swearing and sex would be appreciated.

Sure. Here are some fantasy ones.

The Shadowfell trilogy by Juliet Marillier, or anything by her, really.


Akrad's Children by Jeanette O'Hagan or any of her books.

The Dragon Seeker series by NR Eccles-Smith.

In sci-fi, try Earth's Remnant by Adam David Collings.

You can also try my sci-fi books like The Verindon Alliance.

Ursula le Guin.

I would recommend The Riyria Revelations series by Michael J. Sullivan

I'm currently reading the Books of Babel quartet by Josiah Bancroft. I will admit that the book blurb did not immediately draw me in but there were so many extremely positive reviews that I decided to give the first book a shot. The writing is top notch, the story and characters are incredibly imaginative, and I haven't enjoyed a fantasy series (that wasn't grim-dark) this much since the Dragonlance Chronicles (by Hicks and Weisman) decades ago. It's true that most of the fantasy novels these days have grim settings and edgy characters. Fortunately, I like those, too, so I haven't had much difficulty finding something to read. But if you're looking for something different, I highly recommend these books. It starts a little slow but once it gets rolling I think you'll be hooked!

The Deryni series by Katherine Kurtz, The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings by Tolkien, most books by Barbara Hambly, the John Carter books from Edgar Rice Burroughs.

Anything written by Carol Berg fits your criteria, plus she's an incredible character-driven writer! The Lighthouse Duet would be a good place to start.

Antonin wrote: "Before the pandemic one thing I loved to do was browse the sci-fi and fantasy shelves at the library and just pick a couple of books that looked interesting and sounded interesting, based on the ja..."
Sorry about tooting my own horn, but that is one of the things I really like, so that is the kind of sci-fi that I write. You might like Moon Crusher, The Mendel Experiment trilogy, and my latest, (which is more adult, but with nothing explicit), Crossroads to the Stars. I grew up with Heinlein, Norton, Clarke, Simak, etc. The oldies but goodies.

I'm glad these lists are here,I was just about to ask these questions.

Antonin wrote: "Could someone recommend some fantasy novels that will rekindle my interest in the genre? I tried J.V. Jones recently and was disappointed. I have never read George R.R. Martin, but some reviews I have read here make me not want to read him.

You're probably right to avoid Martin's Song of ice and fire, but you might want to check out his Tales of Dunk and Egg. They're short books set in the same world decades before the main series, they're less dark (even humorous in tone) and I don't recall sex or heavy swearing.
Most of Stephen King's books should be ok (would need to check individually though).
There's also the Discworld series, always fun.


Antonin wrote: "Also, some sci-fi recommendations without all the extreme swearing and sex would be appreciated."

Many of the classics should be ok, like The Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. Ender's game. Among the recent ones, Project Hail Mary (whose main character specifically doesn't swear and say things like "fudge" instead - which I guess is Weir addressing the gratuitous swearing in The martian)

Just going through my favorites authors at the moment, basically any book by Dan Simmons, Hugh Howey, Chrisopher Priest, Claire North, James Smythe, should fit the bill. Also Ursula Le Guin, Tim Powers.

On a sidenote, I'm surpised that it seems so difficult for you to find SF/F without sex or profanity, I don't stumble upon many books with them in it (now if you wanted to avoid violence then that's a whole other problem) and that's not even a conscious choice; I just avoid YA, romance (or any book with a beefcake on the cover), and self-published. I read more SF than fantasy though, so it may be a genre thing.

I have to admit I was turned off by the incest and monstrous pregnancies in Anne Rice's Lasher series. I do like her Vampire Chronicles though.

Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire can also get pretty dark, with rape, etc. Plus who knows when it will be finished, better off waiting a bit longer to see if the next book ever gets published (which isn't the last book either, might be another decade before that one comes out)

I'm with you, Antonin. One of my top favorite series of all time are the Liaden books by Sharon Lee and Steve Miller. Only one of the books turned me off with sex. The rest are reasonably clean and I love everything about them! You can start with Balance of Trade. Their website, http://korval.com/ has an interesting reading order if you don't want to start at the very beginning, tells you how to jump around. I also love Mercedes Lackey. especially the Valdemar series and the Elemental Masters series. Her stuff is pretty lightweight. I have enjoyed The Invisible Library series by Genevieve Cogman The Invisible Library. Feel free to peruse my book lists! I think we have given you enough to read for all of 2022! I'm going to check into some of these recommendations, too! Maybe we should start a bookshelf for "reasonably clean Sci Fi!" One last thing, you want to avoid Urban Romance.

Brandon Sanderson - a few series to pick from: Mistborn, Stormlight Archive. Both great series too.

Andy wrote: "Brandon Sanderson - a few series to pick from: Mistborn, Stormlight Archive. Both great series too."

Oh yes, I forgot him, I've only read his Mistborn books but they're "clean" and well worth a read (the second era books too, even though I prefer the first trilogy).


Andrea wrote: "Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire can also get pretty dark, with rape, etc. Plus who knows when it will be finished, better off waiting a bit longer to see if the next book ever gets published (which isn't the last book either, might be another decade before that one comes out)"

The one good thing about the last season of the show is that now I won't mind if I never read the last books :)

I just finished The Hurricane Code and liked it a lot. Relatively free of graphic sex and profanity. Mature themes though.



Antonin wrote: "Before the pandemic one thing I loved to do was browse the sci-fi and fantasy shelves at the library and just pick a couple of books that looked interesting and sounded interesting, based on the ja..."

I’ll add a few more as I don’t think they’ve been mentioned yet-
Janny Wurts - Wars of Light & Shadow
Brian McClellan - Powder Mage series
Raymond Feist - Magician
Trudy Canavan - Black Magician
David Eddings - Belgariad
All of the Dragonlance books - if you’ve read Forgotten Realms you’ll be fine with those.

Wheel of Time (and it’s just started on Amazon - anyone seen it yet? I’m planning on waiting for a few eps to be out before watching, but interested in thoughts from readers of the books).

Andy wrote: "I’ll add a few more as I don’t think they’ve been mentioned yet-
Janny Wurts - Wars of Light & Shadow
Brian McClellan - Powder Mage series
Raymond Feist - Magician
Trudy Canavan - Black Magician
D..." Oh yes! I loved the Raymond Feist Magician series!

Smart Girl here. I'm in the middle of Janny Wurts' series, and I forgot to mention them, Andy!

Andy wrote: "Wheel of Time (and it’s just started on Amazon - anyone seen it yet? I’m planning on waiting for a few eps to be out before watching, but interested in thoughts from readers of the books)."

In Australia, so I assume everywhere else, they released the first 3 episodes in one go, and have now gone to a new ep every week.

I would suggest Jeff Wheeler's books(YA- NA), Rebecca Crunden's books (mild profanity, do check out TW) and The House Of Styx.

Shard & Shield is book one of an almost four-book series, (the fourth comes out next month), and fits, too.

Anything by Robin Hobb

Thanks, everyone, for all of the great recommendations!

My own "Tond" series (book one reviewed here: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...).
Auralia's Colors by Jeffrey Overstreet.
Daugher of Magic (and sequels) by Karen Eisenbrey (YA).

Being an avid SF reader, I cannot help seeing a lot of Fantasy titles here. Anything with magic or vampires or dragons doesn't count as SF for me. And especially no books with half-naked men or women on the cover.

I see no one recommending Jack Vance? Sheri Tepper? Robert Silverberg? Lois McMaster Bujold? Simon Green?
I have them all but cannot remember specifically in which book there would be 'too much' sex or profanity. If there was, I would have remembered I think.

The Vokosigan series would definitely work, now that Jannelies brought up Lois McMaster Bujold.

Jannelies wrote: "Being an avid SF reader, I cannot help seeing a lot of Fantasy titles here. Anything with magic or vampires or dragons doesn't count as SF for me. And especially no books with half-naked men or wom..."

There is a LOT of SF with mostly naked women on the covers (men less so). At least the fantasy novels have the excuse of generally being a paranormal romance so you'll get what the cover offers, but in SF it's just way to get those hormonal teenage boys to pick up the book


Whoops, guess men got the same treatment, hehe


Gotta love pulp SF art!

I'll also put in a vote for Vorkosigan Saga. It's military so there must have been some swearing, and there is a little sex (including a rape) but for the most part it's clean. Depends which books you pick up really.

For some reason I didn't put my brain towards SF before...Pern has swearing but it's all specific to the culture, they don't use our words. I still stand by my claim that Pern is SF because the dragons are genetically engineered and not fulled by magic :) There's also McCaffrey's Acorna series where she tries to put an SF spin on unicorns (didn't quite work for me but definitely no swearing/sex).

The Red Mars trilogy? I don't seem to recall there being loads of swearing, and while there was the occasional couple that hooked up they weren't all hopping into bed together. (After watching the Voyager episode Blood Fever, can't say Star Trek was entirely sex free either)

Did we cover LeGuin? Both for Eathsea (fantasy) and her Hainish Cycle (SF), in the latter, if sex is ever mentioned, it is to explore an aspect of humanity and not for the erotic factor

I second Michael J Sullivan, Brian McClellan, Brandon Sanderson, Jeff Wheeler, Project Hail Mary.

Also L. E. Modesitt. Maria Snyder -- a few make-out scenes but that's it -- and Garth Nix.

Middle Grade is usually safe -- Brandon Mull and Jonathan Stroud are enjoyable by all ages.

I'll have to look at my shelves again. I include a content advisory in my reviews.

Tyler Whitesides -- The Thousand Deaths of Ardor Benn

I think fantasy has gotten really explicit lately too, not just sci fi.

Sci-Fi:
Dauntless
Today I Am Carey
Semiosis -- they talk about sex but nothing explicit
Terminal Alliance -- I remember it being pretty clean, but I could be wrong.
Six Wakes -- not perfectly clean but not too bad
Bluescreen and The Prisoner of Cell 25 -- YA -- Bluescreen has some swearing in non-English languages.

John Scalzi has various amounts of swearing but rarely any sex stuff.

Andrea wrote: "(After watching the Voyager episode Blood Fever, can't say Star Trek was entirely sex free either)"

Were there any single women that Kirk didn't passionately kiss at least once? 😂

Hmmm... Jim Kirk, #me to? Will there be a 'cancel Kirk,' outcry?

Thinking about it... He can't even use the, 'the past is another country, they do things differently there,' defence.... Because Star trek takes place in the future. Hmmm it's looking bad Jim... Might be time to beam up...☺

Hey! Stop picking on my boyfriend, you two!!

Michelle wrote: "Hey! Stop picking on my boyfriend, you two!!"

😁😂🤣

With all due respect but I cannot help thinking that reading about a harmless chaste kiss could be too much 'sex' for somebody. So if you choose only to read books without one small kiss, or maybe a person that uses a not-so-nice word, what's left then?

I personally am not interested in explicit sex and extreme profanity, and also not in extreme violence. So, I just love books by e.g. David Mark (sticking to thrillers now) where the main character has to do a lot of fighting and expresses his devotion and love to his wife by kissing her when he comes home. I think the same goes for a lot of older SF books. I just don't read the fighting scenes; I always skim the pages till I come to the end of such a scene.

@Andrea: I own about 2000 SF books and you can count the ones with a (half)naked person on the cover on the fingers of one hand ;-). I do own some Fantasy books, about 30 I think but there too, not a (half)naked person in sight. Not that I cannot stand it but it says something about the book.

I have respect for the personal choices people make, don't get me wrong. So if someone wants to read SF and Fantasy without certain elements, fine with me. I just think it is easier to find in the older SF books.

Here are some additional recs without explicit sex scenes and strong profanity (plus I obviously also recommend Sanderson and Bujold):

Circe is very good, so is Ariadne

You can always go old school (by that i Mean the 80's, 90's) no sex or profanity in these authors works.

Piers Anthony (Xanth, Incarnations of Immortality)
David Eddings (Belgariad, Mallorean, Elewnium)
Terry Brooks (Shannara)
Terry Pratchett (Discworld)
Raymond E. Feist (Riftwar)
Melanie Rawn (Dragon Prince)
Margaret Weis (Star of the Guardians, Death Gate Cycle)
Anne McCaffrey (Pern)
Not so popular anymore, but highly enjoyable.

I remember Red Rising having lots of swearing and Circe having some sex scenes, but maybe my memory is fuzzy.

Thanks for asking! I too prefer to avoid sex and extreme profanity. I also notice a lot of fantasy in these suggestions, more so than sci-fi. But hey, it's a start! :D Thanks, all.

Alan wrote: "I would recommend The Riyria Revelations series by Michael J. Sullivan"

I second Riyria Revelations. Great series and clean.

So many great suggestions! Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to direct me toward some great books!

So far in this thread, Riyria Revelations by Michael J. Sullivan has been recommended at least 4 or 5 times! I Must endorse this series or anything by this author, he is amazing, you won’t be disappointed! Secondly, I would be remiss if I don’t ALSO mention the Vorsokigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold, this is an awesome Sci-Fy series. Several folks in this thread has also mentioned this series and the author- who’s body of work is greatly admired!

Rachel Neumeier's books are very clean, too.

I have yet to read Bujold, but she's on my list.

Audrey wrote: "I have yet to read Bujold, but she's on my list."

She certainly can write good stuff, Audrey!

Jannelies wrote: "With all due respect but I cannot help thinking that reading about a harmless chaste kiss could be too much 'sex' for somebody....."

There is certainly nothing wrong with a "harmless chaste kiss," or even a love scene, or even some profanity. But I've read some newer sci-fi and fantasy in recent years where such things in a plot just don't seem to really help drive the plot. I've read books where authors seem to insert frequent "f-bombs" simply because "that's the way people talk now."

One recently written fantasy novel I tried to read a couple years ago had a graphic rape scene that I thought was just way, way too much. It disturbed me so much that I did not finish the book.

A sci-fi novel that I read a few years back had so much sex and so many "f-bombs" that I felt the author was just trying too hard to be "edgy."

Many years ago I read A Clockwork Orange, but I never got the impression that Burgess was being edgy for the sake of being edgy. And I've also read the book Scarface, the novelization of the infamous movie. Given the subject of the film, the frequent profanity in the book did not bother me.

I hope this makes sense.

It does. Going for shock value is a cheap trick, and a lot of editors reject books because of that, and it's a sign of poor or lazy writing.