Debates discussion

Okay, this is one of those legitimately really hard topics I mentioned earlier. I mean, really hard. This subject tends to be extremely polarized, and as of yet I've never had a polite conversation with anyone regarding abortion. So because of that, I'm going to remind everyone of the rules list I made. Those threats are real. Please, please, please be respectful. Don't insult anyone directly for any reason whatsoever. If you're pro-life and someone is pro-choice, please don't call them a murderer. If you're pro-choice, please don't insult the pro-lifers. That being said, if you violate this, I will have no choice but to block you from this group.
Okay. So that was a long threat. Now on to debating.
I'm pro-life, and here's why:
I believe that fetuses are people from the first cell, not masses of tissues. Thus, they are not actually a part of the woman's body, but a body unto themselves. This makes it murder to abort the fetus in the womb. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about women being allowed to make their own choices about they're own bodies. But babies are not a part of the woman's body at any point during the pregnancy, and since I believe murder is wrong, I don't support pro-choice. Okay everyone, go to town. Just remember the rules, and we can have an awesome debate!

I completely agree with you. I am unapologetically pro life as well. I don't really even know how someone would have the heart to have an abortion, but I've never been in a situation like that before.

I completely know what you mean. Although I've heard that if you tell yourself enough times it's just some cells or an unwanted growth in your stomach, it makes it easy. I can't believe that, but I'm also not pro-choice. Although it's probably similar to hunting. If you tell yourself that the deer in front of you is food to support your family, not a cute, innocent animal, it's fairly easy to kill it. Which is horrifying that anyone could even begin to think that way about a baby, but apparently it happens.

🥺😔

Pianissimo wrote: "🥺😔"

My thoughts precisely. 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

So, before I begin: I am absolutely pro-life and pro-choice. I am just pro-choice until it harms someone else.

As such, I don't support abortion. However, I think there are some exceptions that, even though I don't agree with it, warrant the chance for an abortion; Namely what we call the "Heartbeat Bill" (or 13 weeks into conception). In a perfect world, I would say absolutely no reason at all. In a perfect world, though, there isn't rape, young girls getting pregnant, or incest.

I can understand where you're coming from E, but here's where I'm actually going to debate you: do you think it's morally right to murder/kill someone because we don't live in a perfect world? I understand that might sound insensitive to your position, so I want to make it clear that I completely understand what you mean. I do. It's just that I personally don't believe, even in this broken world we live in, that it's possible to morally justify killing a fetus, even when it's only 13 weeks from conception. I genuinely want to hear your thoughts.

Lol of course not! And I don't like it at all.

I've never been forced to carry my rapist's child, however, for one, so it's incredibly hard for me to stare any one in the face who has and condemn them by taking away any choice.

The other reason, two, I somewhat debate for the "Heartbeat Bill" is the historical statistics of what occurred when abortions were 100% denied; namely a rise in deaths tied to [secret] abortions and suicides.

Third reason is there is a very fine line that I just can't argue yet for WHEN is it considered killing a fetus? If you argue the biblical narrative, that is to say conception is when life begins, then birth control as well is to be lumped in with abortion, as it kills the fetus in it's development (according to different studies that I can find the sources for but am to lazy to list at the moment).

From a Christian perspective, I'm not for it. From a political perspective, I say there is some justification for it (up the Heartbeat).

If we're talking about the organization, however, instead of the actual act, than that is a whole different ball game.

Ok so i have a very personal story with my opinion. So i am adopted and completely pro-life. That fetus is a human being and God made them for a reason. From the first cell, it is alive. When you did the thing that you did you should have thought that pregnancy could be an outcome. Yes, I completely understand that girls are raped and its awful, but instead of abortion, choose adoption. That fetus could turn into an amazing human being that God created. I understand that women should be able to choose with their own body, but its not their own body, it is another human being. No, i do not hate anyone who is pro-choice, but that is my opinion. :)

Denali wrote: "Okay, this is one of those legitimately really hard topics I mentioned earlier. I mean, really hard. This subject tends to be extremely polarized, and as of yet I've never had a polite conversation..."

I totally agree. That's what I say. My body ,my choice doesn't actually work cuz even tho the baby's in the body, it isn't the body (if that makes since) and the "my body, my choice" doesn't work with vaccines they can make us do tht and my body my choice doesn't work! I hope I don't offend anyone but that's how I feel.

Elizabeth L. {Attend me, Mortal} wrote: "Denali wrote: "Okay, this is one of those legitimately really hard topics I mentioned earlier. I mean, really hard. This subject tends to be extremely polarized, and as of yet I've never had a poli..."

Same girl!!!!!!!!!

E wrote: "Lol of course not! And I don't like it at all.

I've never been forced to carry my rapist's child, however, for one, so it's incredibly hard for me to stare any one in the face who has and condemn..."

I can definitely understand that. I've obviously never carried my rapist's child either, so who am I to talk? But even so, I don't believe it's the right course of action.

I can also understand the part about the Heartbeat bill. I'm going to have to look up those statistics for myself, but I believe you. Living in this broken world would foster something like that. Although even though people secretly murder other people, I don't think murder should be even slightly legal, and that's why I'm mostly against the Heartbeat bill.

And I do believe, unnegotiablely, that life begins from the very beginning of conception. And thus, I don't stand for birth control either. There will only ever be one of the person you're killing. Why would you take away their opportunity to live just because you wish you didn't have to be tied to them? That's why I don't support any kind of fetus killing. At all. Ever.

And let's not even go into the organization. I might break my own rules if I think about it too much...

Elizabeth L. {Attend me, Mortal} wrote: "Denali wrote: "Okay, this is one of those legitimately really hard topics I mentioned earlier. I mean, really hard. This subject tends to be extremely polarized, and as of yet I've never had a poli..."

I completely agree, Liz and Hannah. That's the obnoxious part about the my body, my choice thing. They legalize killing another human being and say it's your body, but then they force you to do something with your body after they tell you to murder something because it's your body. Wow. That was a nonsensical sentence. I think y'all know what I mean, though. And Liz, don't be afraid of offending people with your opinion. That's why I started this! If people get offended, unfortunately that's their choice, not yours.

About rape. It is not the childs fault that their father was horrible like that.

Elizabeth L. {Attend me, Mortal} wrote: "About rape. It is not the childs fault that their father was horrible like that."

yes. You're so right and that's the frustrating (and heart-breaking) thing about using rape as an excuse to kill the baby.

And that, Hannah, actually is another reason why this whole conversation sucks and makes me a bit hesitant about it all ;)

I'm also adopted, but I was in my teens when I was adopted! A lot of my hesitancy to the whole abortion debate bleeds over to the adoption debate as well.

If adoption wasn't such a huge pain in the rear issue in the US, that would solve soooo many issues. As it costs well over 10k to adopt a child, there's a huge crisis of "state kids"; without a healthy home, a vicious cycle happens.

Now, pause. I'm not saying let's kill the kids so we don't have an overflow.

I think my argument is more along the line of there are just so many layers that need to be fixed.

We definitely need CORRECT sex education/abstinence programs and teaching. We need to fix our adoption system. Planned Parenthood definitely needs to be dismantled.

We have a huge degenerative mindset occurring in the US which bleeds into the heart issue of abortion. Namely, what is the root of it? We have a completely fractured society that is actively tearing down the family unit.

...I think I overwhelmed myself going in to my little rant, actually. My brain hurts now. Hopefully you understand a bit what I was saying.

To TLDR all the thoughts in my head, though... I'm against it, and I think it should be actively combated. Before we completely eradicate the option, however, there are major things that need to be fixed in society that leads to the abortion issue. You can cut the grass all you want, but you need to pull out the roots if you want to stop it from growing. The roots of the abortion issue are too many to name, but I listed a few above just to give you an idea.

E wrote: "And that, Hannah, actually is another reason why this whole conversation sucks and makes me a bit hesitant about it all ;)

I'm also adopted, but I was in my teens when I was adopted! A lot of my h..."

I whole-heartedly agree with you, E. I was a placed baby, meaning someone donated her eggs to my mom. Even that is a much better route than abortion. I have to go live my life at the moment, but I want to respond to your comment in full later.

I agree E completely. Adoption is a pain and maybe that could change in the future. I agree that we need correct sex ed too.

oops i didnt mean to send yet lol but yea i agree. i understand what your saying and my point is that there are other options.

Hannah wrote: "Ok so i have a very personal story with my opinion. So i am adopted and completely pro-life. That fetus is a human being and God made them for a reason. From the first cell, it is alive. When you d..."

Okay, so I want to preface that I'm adopted and pro–life, just like you Hannah. I'm also not pregnant nor have I ever been (and I'm not at a "risk" of being pregnant).

However, I don't really agree with your statement: "When you did the thing that you did you should have thought that pregnancy could be an outcome. "

I just think it's too much of an over–simplification. Yeah, obviously if people have sex, pregnancy is always a possibility, no matter how much birth control and protective measures they can use. However, sometimes people aren't financially, mentally, or emotionally stable enough to have a kid — especially if these people are newly weds. Sometimes, some married couples don't want kids, but sex is usually a given in marriages.

Now, I'm not justifying abortion or birth control; in fact, I'm against both. However, I was just trying to play the devil's advocate. I also think that sometimes, in debates, certain phrases can come across more harshly than intended.

With that being said, I was not offended at all by that statement. I do agree with it, but again, I just thought that it was a little harsh and overly simplified. I truly hope I haven't offended you, but I'm not at all sorry for what I said.

E wrote: "And that, Hannah, actually is another reason why this whole conversation sucks and makes me a bit hesitant about it all ;)

I'm also adopted, but I was in my teens when I was adopted! A lot of my h..."

YESSSSS!!!!!

Asia (semi–hiatus) wrote: "Hannah wrote: "Ok so i have a very personal story with my opinion. So i am adopted and completely pro-life. That fetus is a human being and God made them for a reason. From the first cell, it is al..."

I agree with Asia that the comment was a bit insensitive. That being said, I also agree with it to some extent. I think there are a lot of people who throw themselves into that bad decision without really thinking about it or the consequences.
With that on the table, however, there are a lot of circumstances where the situation is much more complicated than just people making a bad decision. Since Asia already listed some, I see no reason to gang up on you more. :)

Hannah wrote: "oops i didnt mean to send yet lol but yea i agree. i understand what your saying and my point is that there are other options."

Completely agree.

Yeah. I am adopted as a baby and I am so thankful my mom didn't just abort me cuz where I was born that was actually the first option parent's would consider!

Elizabeth L. {Attend me, Mortal} wrote: "Yeah. I am adopted as a baby and I am so thankful my mom didn't just abort me cuz where I was born that was actually the first option parent's would consider!"

I'M GLAD YOU WEREN'T ABORTED EITHER LIZ!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so sorry if that came across as harsh that was not my intention at all. I am truly sorry, i was trying to state my opinion and it came across wrong. I did not mean to make anyone feel bad or offended. Have a blessed day. :)

Hannah wrote: "I am so sorry if that came across as harsh that was not my intention at all. I am truly sorry, i was trying to state my opinion and it came across wrong. I did not mean to make anyone feel bad or o..."

That's okay! I don't want you to feel bad; that was never my intention! I just wanted to let you know that, if you were to ever have a similar debate with others, you might come across differently than you thought! :)

Thank you Asia and Denali for letting me know! I never want to sound offensive, so next time I will try my very best to be more friendly.

Hannah, please please please don't feel bad. I don't think you truly offended anyone here. As I've stated multiple times, this is a safe space where you can truly share your opinion. Please don't feel guilty. We're just trying to help you out, that's all. I'm truly sorry if we made you feel bad!

lol no worries at all to Hannah and Denali and anyone else who stresses how they come off; this is over text, after all, which makes it super easy to misconstrue the original writer's meaning, tone, etc

On the other hand, though, I am completely offended by everyone and am now going to go sit in a corner and cry /s [obvious tag just in case sarcasm wasn't understood]

ok thank you but i was in the wrong and im just really sensitive lol. ;)

exactly E, it can be difficult to show what your meaning and tone lol!

Denali wrote: "Elizabeth L. {Attend me, Mortal} wrote: "Yeah. I am adopted as a baby and I am so thankful my mom didn't just abort me cuz where I was born that was actually the first option parent's would conside..."

THANK YOU DENALI

I completely agree with your comment elizabeth!!

Lolllll E!!!!!! I know. Y'all have seriously offended my fragile constitution and I'm going to go hide in a hole now. XD

About r*pe, incest, etc. And this is superr important to all the pro-lifers out there.

Abortion advocates always, always bring up rape in debates (even if that not what the debate was going on about before) because that is their strongest argument. Rape is a horrible act, but the thing is, does abortion really undo the trauma from that? Rape is a stronger party (the rapist) attacking a weaker party (the victim). Isn't abortion that too??? Except the rapist doesn't even have to die for his disgusting actions but the baby does?! I don't actually blame women who go in for abortions, but I do blame the abortion advocates and Planned Parenthood, who bring up rape (which is the cause for abortion less than 1% of the time btw! 1%!!!) not because they have a particular soft spot for rape victims but because they want to keep the abortion industry going, the money flowing in, and the women thinking that family and children do not go with success and happiness (which is utter crap, ofc).

Lily wrote: "About r*pe, incest, etc. And this is superr important to all the pro-lifers out there.

Abortion advocates always, always bring up rape in debates (even if that not what the debate was going on abo..."

PREEEAAACCCHHH!!

I am 100% against abortion. It is murder and murder is wrong.
I do feel bad for people who feel forced to get an adoption because they can't take care of the baby or their afraid that their parents will disown them, but there are organizations that can help them and adoption is better than abortion.

PREACH IT LILY!!!!!!

Haha thanks y'all

Btw!!! If anyone wants any sources for anything concerning abortion, or a way to refute a certain argument from the pro-choice side, or how to get involved in the pro-life movement, or just somewhere to start when researching abortion, my messages are open and I would be more than happy to try to help you out!

Lol you're an amazing person my friend! :)

Same back at you XD <333

Awww thanks!

Book Dragon i also feel for those who feel forced to put their baby up for adoption and that there are organizations to help and adoption is better than abortion.

Hannah wrote: "Book Dragon i also feel for those who feel forced to put their baby up for adoption and that there are organizations to help and adoption is better than abortion."

Yeah! Did you know that for EVERY child put up for adoption, there's three couples looking to adopt? 🥺

I know!! thats why i think adoption is a great alternative for abortion. it costs no money for someone to put their child up for adoption. :)

Hannah wrote: "I know!! thats why i think adoption is a great alternative for abortion. it costs no money for someone to put their child up for adoption. :)"

Yep! Do you know anyone who's adopted?

my parents couldn't produce children so they decided to adopt and now i have a great family with an adopted older sister and two dogs lol!

im adopted hehe :)))